Pakistan F-7PG the little plane that could

[banvanaxl]

F-7 PG , deceptive plane that is actually larger then what it looks, armed with AIM-9 Air to air plane is first in line to welcome any visitors, the jet is still used in numbers in Chinese Air-force.
Similarly the plane is serving protection of Pakistan's airspace

The role the planes played , can only be understood when you read about history during the 90's and where was Pakistan Air-force during that time.

The Economy was hurting & Pakistan had just been facing international embargo for F16 parts , and obviously the mirage planes were also requiring upgrades

PEACE GATE 4 & Embargo
F-16 Air Forces - Pakistan

Surprisingly large as other planes


Arrived in Pakistan Air-force in 1988 , approximately the same time Pakistan's F16 were embargoed
The arrival was slowly followed up with Pakistan's air-force putting its special touch on the plane

The plane went under 136 Improvements for security and safety. As discussed in the Youtube video the hard points were increased to 5 capable of carrying any combination of weapons.

The plane allowed Pakistan's Software Engineers to help develop head up display , to modernize the plane

Obviously the plane attained more fans when it participated closely with the F22P Planes from USA in joint training


Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 2.0 (2,200 km/h (1,189 knots, 1,375 mph)) IAS
• Stall speed: 210 km/h (114 knots, 131 mph) IAS
• Combat radius: 850 km (459 nmi, 528 mi) (air superiority, two AAMs and three drop tanks)
• Ferry range: 2,200 km (1,187 nmi, 1,367 mi)
• Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft)
• Rate of climb: 195 m/s (38,386 ft/min)

Armament

• Guns: 2× 30 mm Type 30-1 cannon, 60 rounds per gun
• Hardpoints: 5 in total - 4× under-wing, 1× centreline under-fuselage with a capacity of 2,000 kg maximum (up to 500 kg each)
• Rockets: 55 mm rocket pod (12 rounds), 90 mm rocket pod (7 rounds)
• Missiles:
  • Air-to-air missiles: PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, K-13, Magic R.550,
  • AIM-9
• 
  
• 
  
• Bombs: 50 kg to 500 kg unguided bombs

Avionics

FIAR Grifo-7 mk.II rada


The Engineering benefits Pakistan gained by cooperation on the F7 Plane paved way to the JF17 thunder a future for Pakistan's airforce

Let us not forget the baby is loaded with AIM 9 (4 MISSILES)

Great Read

Makes you wonder why we are retiring our MiG-21-93/MiG-21bis UPG : The best damned Mig 21 variant ever and our first BVR fighter.



MiG-21 Bison UPG
1x GSh-23-2L w 200 rds 1x PTB-490/PTB-800
1x SPRD-99 1x R-3S/R-3R/R-13M
1x R-27R1/R-27T1 AAM
1x R-55 AAM
1x R-73E AAM
1x R-77 AAM
1x Kh-25MP
1x Kh-66
1x UB-16-57U
1x S-24
1x FAB-100/250/500/OFAB-100
1x KAB-500Kr LGB 1x R-3S/R-3R/R-13M
1x R-27R1
1x R-55
1x R-73E
1x R-77
2x R-60/R-60M on twin rail
1x Kh-25MP
1x Kh-66
1x UB-16-57U
1x S-24
1x FAB-100/250/500/OFAB-100
1x KAB-500Kr LGB
1x PTB-490

True beauty .. Will be sorely missed.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Great Read

Makes you wonder why we are retiring our MiG-21-93/MiG-21bis UPG : The best damned Mig 21 variant ever and our first BVR fighter.



MiG-21 Bison UPG
1x GSh-23-2L w 200 rds 1x PTB-490/PTB-800
1x SPRD-99 1x R-3S/R-3R/R-13M
1x R-27R1/R-27T1 AAM
1x R-55 AAM
1x R-73E AAM
1x R-77 AAM
1x Kh-25MP
1x Kh-66
1x UB-16-57U
1x S-24
1x FAB-100/250/500/OFAB-100
1x KAB-500Kr LGB 1x R-3S/R-3R/R-13M
1x R-27R1
1x R-55
1x R-73E
1x R-77
2x R-60/R-60M on twin rail
1x Kh-25MP
1x Kh-66
1x UB-16-57U
1x S-24
1x FAB-100/250/500/OFAB-100
1x KAB-500Kr LGB
1x PTB-490

True beauty .. Will be sorely missed.

Upgraded 21s will be in IAF for a while, as TEJAS is not in sight for miles, and Rafale will remain a dirty dance for a while. The aircraft became unpopular due to corruption fraud and politics, being dubbed the IAF widow maker. This is nothing wrong wrong his bird. The IAF 21 outperforms Pakistani F7P in many ways, and bison is considered to be superior to Chinese G version. However, this plane is highly pilot dependent, and its the superior training that dominates the result of a Air to Air engagement.

 

[Tipu7]

How will you compare
Mig21 Bison with F7 PG & F7 BG......?

 

[Manindra]

How will you compare
Mig21 Bison with F7 PG & F7 BG......?

IAF Bison is BVR capable & also use jamming pod, targeting pod but old lady have very less life left in her airframes compared to newly built F/J-7 variants.

 

[litman]

Which tactic is teached to our young F-7PG and F-7P Pilots when they have to face a indian Mig-29,SU-30MKI or Rafele. I mean do they have any chance, might be a stupid question,..

probably they are taught take off, landing, strafing, close air combat and how to fly away fast on detecting mig 29. rafale, Su 30. they have no place in the modern air combat. they are not even used to bomb taliban.

 

[SQ8]

The same was said for the Paksitani Mirages, and they are going to be around for a while, longer than the date you give here. PGs are fairly new addition to the PAF, and have suitable and serviceable status. They are likely to see a weapons and situational awareness upgrade, to carry a HOBS or BVR weapon, and stay relevant for Air superiority role. I have flown both the Russian Mig 21, and the G modification, and its a real hornet this one.

The mirages are only sticking around because so far they are only ones that can carry certain items, that and they are still excellent bomb trucks.

 

[JinRoh]

The nose air intake of F-7PG does not permit installation of a modern fire control radar without it's replacement with an ogival nose randome and moving the air intakes to the side or below resulting for all intents and purposes in a new aircraft. The following examples illustrate this point:
1. J-8II evolved from the J-8 because of the need to install a better radar.
2. Q-5 based on the J-6 (although originally the nose did not have a radar).
3. Ye-8 a very interesting project based on MiG-21.

In the past various efforts have been made to modernize J/F-7:
1. Chengdu Super 7:
A British offer to upgrade J-7M with Red Fox radar and Western engines cancelled because the radar and engine costed more than a new J-7.

2. Chengdu Sabre II:
Proposed upgrade by Northrop featuring the AN/APG-67 radar of F-20 Tigershark.

3. Chengdu J-7FS and J-7MF:
In house projects subsequently cancelled.

4. Guizhou JL-9/FTC-2000:
LIFT based on JJ-7.

A cursory study of these projects especially Super 7 and Sabre II will show that the end result was a new fighter, a FC-1/JF-17 in the making.

The last J-7 variant to enter PLAAF service was J-7G with KLJ-6E radar, helmet mounted sight and more powerful engine. In comparison one of the most capable MiG-21 variant is MiG-21 LanceR a project in which China also participated. In comparison to J-7E/G the LanceR features better avionics (EL/M-2032 radar and LITENING pod the LanceR-C and LanceR-A variants respectively) but the double delta wing of J-7E confers it greater maneuverability and internal fuel load, an important point given the MiG's short legs.

 

[Khadim e Darul Ehsaan]

F7 internal fuel ~2400 liters vs jf17 3000 liters 1800 kg max external store vs 3600+ or 4000kg load

Wikipedia says 2350 liters for jf17 internal fuel.is 3000 liters is of block2 jf17 ???

 

[khanasifm]

Wikipedia says 2350 liters for jf17 internal fuel.is 3000 liters is of block2 jf17 ???

Wikipedia anyone can put anything go check PAC website plus j-7 is very slim cylinder shape plus intake is also part of it so not much room for fuel

Fuel fraction is empty weight to moral raj off weight kpi which helps you evaluate fighter also turbo fan vs jet makes a big difference

Refer to latest jf-17 specs thread on this forum for block 2 specs

 

[Basel]

F-7 PG , deceptive plane that is actually larger then what it looks, armed with AIM-9 Air to air plane is first in line to welcome any visitors, the jet is still used in numbers in Chinese Air-force.
Similarly the plane is serving protection of Pakistan's airspace

The role the planes played , can only be understood when you read about history during the 90's and where was Pakistan Air-force during that time.

The Economy was hurting & Pakistan had just been facing international embargo for F16 parts , and obviously the mirage planes were also requiring upgrades

PEACE GATE 4 & Embargo
F-16 Air Forces - Pakistan

Surprisingly large as other planes

Arrived in Pakistan Air-force in 1988 , approximately the same time Pakistan's F16 were embargoed
The arrival was slowly followed up with Pakistan's air-force putting its special touch on the plane

The plane went under 136 Improvements for security and safety. As discussed in the Youtube video the hard points were increased to 5 capable of carrying any combination of weapons.

The plane allowed Pakistan's Software Engineers to help develop head up display , to modernize the plane

Obviously the plane attained more fans when it participated closely with the F22P Planes from USA in joint training

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 2.0 (2,200 km/h (1,189 knots, 1,375 mph)) IAS
• Stall speed: 210 km/h (114 knots, 131 mph) IAS
• Combat radius: 850 km (459 nmi, 528 mi) (air superiority, two AAMs and three drop tanks)
• Ferry range: 2,200 km (1,187 nmi, 1,367 mi)
• Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft)
• Rate of climb: 195 m/s (38,386 ft/min)

Armament

• Guns: 2× 30 mm Type 30-1 cannon, 60 rounds per gun
• Hardpoints: 5 in total - 4× under-wing, 1× centreline under-fuselage with a capacity of 2,000 kg maximum (up to 500 kg each)
• Rockets: 55 mm rocket pod (12 rounds), 90 mm rocket pod (7 rounds)
• Missiles:
  • Air-to-air missiles: PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, K-13, Magic R.550,
  • AIM-9
• 
  
  
• 
  
• Bombs: 50 kg to 500 kg unguided bombs

Avionics

FIAR Grifo-7 mk.II rada

The Engineering benefits Pakistan gained by cooperation on the F7 Plane paved way to the JF17 thunder a future for Pakistan's airforce

Let us not forget the baby is loaded with AIM 9 (4 MISSILES)

Why dual racks are not developed for at least 6 AAM one centerline fuel tank configuration??

Also ASRAAM (up to 50km range) or similar AAM should be added with HMS/HMD giving some BVR capabilities to the bird and making it lethal point defence fighter.

http://www.military-today.com/missiles/asraam.htm

 

[Storm Force]

PAF is outnumbered

They would be better replacing their 100 F7 with 50 Thunders mark 3 .

PILOTS LIVES are precious sendinmg highly expensive trained pilots to cetain death scenario is not a good way to fight a short war.

For the RECORD an IAF flanker will pick up and 10 F7 in one go from 100km and engage 4 simultaneously in one round of BVRs

IT WOULD BE A CAKE WALK.........

QUALITY OVER QUANTITY every time with less lives of highly skilled Pakistani pilots at risk

 

[TOPGUN]

PAF is outnumbered

They would be better replacing their 100 F7 with 50 Thunders mark 3 .

PILOTS LIVES are precious sendinmg highly expensive trained pilots to cetain death scenario is not a good way to fight a short war.

For the RECORD an IAF flanker will pick up and 10 F7 in one go from 100km and engage 4 simultaneously in one round of BVRs

IT WOULD BE A CAKE WALK.........

QUALITY OVER QUANTITY every time with less lives of highly skilled Pakistani pilots at risk

Thank you for the info , and for your knowledge PAF has been outnumbered and always will be outnumbered cant never compare the two Af's yet still has managed to keep the enemy at bay and do its job with what it has. Talk about quality well then you also need to update your iaf with the flying coffins you have before pointing the fingers at others. Really nothing more is expected from a hating troll like you grow up man.

 

[Storm Force]

Thank you for the info , and for your knowledge PAF has been outnumbered and always will be outnumbered cant never compare the two Af's yet still has managed to keep the enemy at bay and do its job with what it has. Talk about quality well then you also need to update your iaf with the flying coffins you have before pointing the fingers at others. Really nothing more is expected from a hating troll like you grow up man.

ITS genuine post.

THE F16 is way way THE MOST POTENT fighter in PAF arsenal

WHJAT ELSE IS THERE TO FIGHT THIS

 

[Windjammer]

PAF is outnumbered

They would be better replacing their 100 F7 with 50 Thunders mark 3 .

PILOTS LIVES are precious sendinmg highly expensive trained pilots to cetain death scenario is not a good way to fight a short war.

For the RECORD an IAF flanker will pick up and 10 F7 in one go from 100km and engage 4 simultaneously in one round of BVRs

IT WOULD BE A CAKE WALK.........

QUALITY OVER QUANTITY every time with less lives of highly skilled Pakistani pilots at risk

Yea, the MKIs will be fighting all of India's wars while the MiG-21s, Mirage 2000, Jaguars and MiG-29s will be stationed on border with Bangladesh.
Your MKI was quick to make it's exit during a recent confrontation, so if anything the IAF needs to convince it's pilots to sometimes try and save the aircraft instead of punching eject at the first sign of emergency.

 

[Storm Force]

Yea, the MKIs will be fighting all of India's wars while the MiG-21s, Mirage 2000, Jaguars and MiG-29s will be stationed on border with Bangladesh.
Your MKI was quick to make it's exit during a recent confrontation, so if anything the IAF needs to convince it's pilots to sometimes try and save the aircraft instead of punching eject at the first sign of emergency.

POST does not make sense

BUT you are correct with 250 mki in service aroun d 50% of IAF fire power is vested in this beast