Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[fatman17]

Pak should think about new talks with LM .

Probably after new US administration takes over but we have to buy with own funds, FMF is not possible.

 

[mingle]

Probably after new US administration takes over but we have to buy with own funds, FMF is not possible.

Bottom line is we dont have money otherwise i dont see any political issue .I hope LM and PAF come up with some solution regarding finance .

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Bottom line is we dont have money otherwise i dont see any political issue .I hope LM and PAF come up with some solution regarding finance .

We just signed a multi-billion dollar deal for Chinese submarines and a $600m deal with Ukraine for various armour programs. There is clearly some money, it's just that few are in the mood to spend those funds on American arms.

 

[Tank131]

We just signed a multi-billion dollar deal for Chinese submarines and a $600m deal with Ukraine for various armour programs. There is clearly some money, it's just that few are in the mood to spend those funds on American arms.

That's well said. Even when you remove the chinese submarine deals (they could be financing the subs themselves or give loans which is most likely), Pakistan is still talking to Ukraine about multiple deals involving tanks, it is evaluating new wheeled SP Artillery, It is taking with the Czechs and Belgians about production of assault rifles, it is talking to Turkey about the frigates and FACs. There is clearly money available for 8 F-16s, but is it worth it for the the capability they add and the political risk they can represent.

On a side note that I think people may find interesting...and please forgive me because it took so long to get away from this heated topic previously, and I know when I post this it could start another flame war between some respected members, but for people who dont think we (the USA) have the ability to hack weapons we sell, just listen to this BBC piece regarding a confrontation between the Greek and Turkish navy. During the naval standoff in 1995, the US tried to broker peace, and two American ships who were acting as go-betweens for the Greeks and Turks, secretly, and successfully disabled the weapons systems of both navies (greek and turkish) as they were using American tech. Richard Holbrooke told the Greek FM (Theodoros Pangalos) that the US would not have allowed the two navies to fire on each other successfully and had disabled their weapons without them realizing it. All they would have done is kill a few fish.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04km4gd Listen to the whole thing as the encounter is both interesting and ridiculous, but the part of interest is from 7:25 - 8:30
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) ; @Bilal Khan 777 ; @Oscar; @MastanKhan

Again, sorry for bringing it up again, but I thought of our discussion while listening to this on the radio yesterday and it is relevant to Pakistan and its F-16s. The possibility of remotely disabling the system is there, but as I have said before, it would likely only be used to prevent Pakistan from attacking NATO or US. Not likely to be used to prevent Pakistan from defending against Indian aggression, though with Trump coming into power, no-one can be sure of anything.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

That's well said. Even when you remove the chinese submarine deals (they could be financing the subs themselves or give loans which is most likely), Pakistan is still talking to Ukraine about multiple deals involving tanks, it is evaluating new wheeled SP Artillery, It is taking with the Czechs and Belgians about production of assault rifles, it is talking to Turkey about the frigates and FACs. There is clearly money available for 8 F-16s, but is it worth it for the the capability they add and the political risk they can represent.

On a side note that I think people may find interesting...and please forgive me because it took so long to get away from this heated topic previously, and I know when I post this it could start another flame war between some respected members, but for people who dont think we (the USA) have the ability to hack weapons we sell, just listen to this BBC piece regarding a confrontation between the Greek and Turkish navy. During the naval standoff in 1995, the US tried to broker peace, and two American ships who were acting as go-betweens for the Greeks and Turks, secretly, and successfully disabled the weapons systems of both navies (greek and turkish) as they were using American tech. Richard Holbrooke told the Greek FM (Theodoros Pangalos) that the US would not have allowed the two navies to fire on each other successfully and had disabled their weapons without them realizing it. All they would have done is kill a few fish.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04km4gd Listen to the whole thing as the encounter is both interesting and ridiculous, but the part of interest is from 7:25 - 8:30
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) ; @Bilal Khan 777 ; @Oscar; @MastanKhan

Again, sorry for bringing it up again, but I thought of our discussion while listening to this on the radio yesterday and it is relevant to Pakistan and its F-16s. The possibility of remotely disabling the system is there, but as I have said before, it would likely only be used to prevent Pakistan from attacking NATO or US. Not likely to be used to prevent Pakistan from defending against Indian aggression, though with Trump coming into power, no-one can be sure of anything.

It's worth adding that when one sees the FC-31(v2), does that F-16 even look that appealing anymore? Some would much rather a pseudo-Raptor than a real Falcon... Just saying...

 

[Tank131]

It really has transformed into looking like a mini-F22 rather than the JSF it more closely resembled previously.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It really has transformed into looking like a mini-F22 rather than the JSF it more closely resembled previously.

I think AVIC should really jab one at Lockheed Martin by naming the FC-31 "False Raptor" or 'Shadow.' Embrace the derision and use it artistically. At the very least, I wouldn't be surprised if NATO ends up referring to the FC-31 along those lines.

 

[MastanKhan]

That's well said. Even when you remove the chinese submarine deals (they could be financing the subs themselves or give loans which is most likely), Pakistan is still talking to Ukraine about multiple deals involving tanks, it is evaluating new wheeled SP Artillery, It is taking with the Czechs and Belgians about production of assault rifles, it is talking to Turkey about the frigates and FACs. There is clearly money available for 8 F-16s, but is it worth it for the the capability they add and the political risk they can represent.

On a side note that I think people may find interesting...and please forgive me because it took so long to get away from this heated topic previously, and I know when I post this it could start another flame war between some respected members, but for people who dont think we (the USA) have the ability to hack weapons we sell, just listen to this BBC piece regarding a confrontation between the Greek and Turkish navy. During the naval standoff in 1995, the US tried to broker peace, and two American ships who were acting as go-betweens for the Greeks and Turks, secretly, and successfully disabled the weapons systems of both navies (greek and turkish) as they were using American tech. Richard Holbrooke told the Greek FM (Theodoros Pangalos) that the US would not have allowed the two navies to fire on each other successfully and had disabled their weapons without them realizing it. All they would have done is kill a few fish.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04km4gd Listen to the whole thing as the encounter is both interesting and ridiculous, but the part of interest is from 7:25 - 8:30
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) ; @Bilal Khan 777 ; @Oscar; @MastanKhan

Again, sorry for bringing it up again, but I thought of our discussion while listening to this on the radio yesterday and it is relevant to Pakistan and its F-16s. The possibility of remotely disabling the system is there, but as I have said before, it would likely only be used to prevent Pakistan from attacking NATO or US. Not likely to be used to prevent Pakistan from defending against Indian aggression, though with Trump coming into power, no-one can be sure of anything.

Hi,

Thank you for bringing that up---.

A pakistani would die and go to his grave proudly rather than admitting that there are " electronic kill switches " in ever american " smart weapon ".

Pakistani civilians think that those serving in the pak air force are privy to everything american---so sadly they are mistaken.

 

[Jammer]

Just wanted to change the subject from this ridiculous kill switch discussion, don't know if it has been posted before but here's a nice concise and informative article on the evolution of the F16 straight from the horse's mouth:
http://lockheedmartin.com/us/news/features/2015/C1HistoryF16.html

 

[Naif al Hilali]

Interesting Conversation going on at

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52581&sid=a708b7112ac792bbdf808a7cb21d416b

regarding F-16 weights, composites, and maneuverability.

or download the good parts from the pdf attachment

 

[Naif al Hilali]

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

USAF F-16 with AIM-120D, AIM-9X, eight Small-Diameter-Bombs [SDBs], AIM-120C (left to right). Anyone know of PAF plans to procure SDBs or their equivalents?

Looks like AIM120D, AIM-9X, four SDBs, 500 pounder Slick and JDAM (?), AIM-9 or Pod (?), AIM-120D (?)

 

[razgriz19]

Pak should think about new talks with LM .

LM will sell F-16s if PAF can give them cash. The issue was never a diplomatic one, but it was lack of money.

 

[nomi007]

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

View attachment 363701
USAF F-16 with AIM-120D, AIM-9X, eight Small-Diameter-Bombs [SDBs], AIM-120C (left to right). Anyone know of PAF plans to procure SDBs or their equivalents?

View attachment 363700
Looks like AIM120D, AIM-9X, four SDBs, 500 pounder Slick and JDAM (?), AIM-9 or Pod (?), AIM-120D (?)

sorry not for pakistan

 

[Naif al Hilali]

Some videos pursuant to the F-16 Sparrow missile development program discussed earlier:

F-16 Radar Missile Development

F-16 Radar Missile Capability

F-16 Sparrow Missile

F-16 and the Sparrow Missile

Richard Adams Sparrow Clip

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

LM will sell F-16s if PAF can give them cash. The issue was never a diplomatic one, but it was lack of money.

I wonder ... if Pakistan did intend to pay in cash, and that fact was known to Congress, do you think they would've approved it? The F-16 sale and FMF were presented together, so there may have been an anticipation in Congress that without FMF, the F-16s would not go through. I think the debate in Congress over this issue was enough to dissuade the PAF from inking the contract. Doing so under such noise could've brought back memories of 1989 when Benazir Bhutto inked Peace Gate IV, just when noise about Pakistan's nuclear program began to surface.