Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

JF-17 is to make PAF's frontline multirole fighter aircraft. This responsibility is also shared by F-16s in a particular sector, which are C/D varient. You should compare two of the leading aircraft sharing greatest responsibility.
JF-17 defeated F-16A/B in a dogfight with a large margin and are compared with F-16 Block 40. Comparing with older models is just going to give you a statistically wrong figures.

For example you compare JF-17 with F-16A. Can F-16A fire BVR weapon? No, it cannot. Many of the factors don't coincide to give a logical result. F-16C can fire a AIM-120 and JF-17 can fire a SD-10. This makes a fair comparison, for example radar range or the number of bogeys it can track at a time and distance.

can you tell that dog-fight scenario between f-16 & jf-17 in more detail , as i wish to know the story behind that ...
it would be so nice of you if you could enlighten the rest of us with your first-hand knowledge about that dogfight exercising drills of our P.a.f. ...

 

[Windjammer]

Feasibly? Yes. But technically? I doubt it would be worthwhile. The A's avionics are analog. A BVR missile is essentially blind unless and/or until it is guided and most have digital avionics, smaller and more compact, making the missile more sophisticated. The translation can be done but not sure if anyone is willing to pay the investment.

These MLU F-16A for the PAF are now equipped with AIM-120 Amraam BVR rounds.

 

[gambit]

These MLU F-16A for the PAF are now equipped with AIM-120 Amraam BVR rounds.

Then I stand corrected. Guess someone considered the mod economically worthwhile.

Back in '87 when I was transferred to the F-16 (from F-111), MacDill was an F-16 training base, Luke was the other, and MacD was on the tail end of conversion from A/B to C/D. The plan was to either mothball the A/B or sell them to overseas customers, after some National Guards and Reserve allocations, of course. We never had any plan to do any mods to the A/B because the digital C/D avionics were much more amenable to modifications, hardware and software, and when mod proposals are accepted, the mods would be quicker to implement fleet wide, and that includes global partners.

But I guess necessities compelled changes...

 

[Liquidmetal]

These MLU F-16A for the PAF are now equipped with AIM-120 Amraam BVR rounds.

What is the range of the amraams supplied to Pakistan? Or do we have mixed inventory of older and newer versions and do we have the latest iteration? Thanks.

 

[Imran Khan]

What is the range of the amraams supplied to Pakistan? Or do we have mixed inventory of older and newer versions and do we have the latest iteration? Thanks.

we have only one type AIM-120C5 and its range is AIM-120C-5 >105 km (>57 nm)

 

[Liquidmetal]

we have only one type AIM-120C5 and its range is AIM-120C-5 >105 km (>57 nm)

Please educate me, but to me that seems a bit on the low side, considering the Indians have BVR of much longer ranges esp those mated to their SU30 radars. Is the C8 available to PAF if we decide to purchase this version?

 

[Imran Khan]

Please educate me, but to me that seems a bit on the low side, considering the Indians have BVR of much longer ranges esp those mated to their SU30 radars. Is the C8 available to PAF if we decide to purchase this version?

that what we have sir as per September 30th, 2006 the contract was signed between the Pakistani and US government . no matter you like it or not

 

[Liquidmetal]

that what we have sir as per September 30th, 2006 the contract was signed between the Pakistani and US government . no matter you like it or not

Is there a chance that PAF may purchase the C8 version in the near future and will the US sell them to us?

 

[Armstrong]

Is there a chance that PAF may purchase the C8 version in the near future and will the US sell them to us?

Dude the average width of Pakistan is 300 kms, most of our Forward Operating Basis are a few minutes off the border & such is the case with the Indian FOBs - Keeping that in mind shouldn't a BVR with 100+km range be more than adequate for us ?

 

[Arsalan]

Dude the average width of Pakistan is 300 kms, most of our Forward Operating Basis are a few minutes off the border & such is the case with the Indian FOBs - Keeping that in mind shouldn't a BVR with 100+km range be more than adequate for us ?

It is, it meet our technical requirements so no need to dig extra deep into pocket
Also with Pakistan's future plan (more JF-17 latest blocks and FC-20 and whenever we get fifth generation fighter plans also involving China) SD-10 is going to be the future for PAF, which, by many sources is claimed to be on par with AIM-120C5. As time goes on we might see some developments in that as well.

 

[Liquidmetal]

It is, it meet our technical requirements so no need to dig extra deep into pocket
Also with Pakistan's future plan (more JF-17 latest blocks and FC-20 and whenever we get fifth generation fighter plans also involving China) SD-10 is going to be the future for PAF, which, by many sources is claimed to be on par with AIM-120C5. As time goes on we might see some developments in that as well.

Thank you to so many knowledgeable people for your valuable contribution, may I ask what is the status regarding the SD-10 integration with the JFT? I think there is considerable doubt regarding the integration of this missile. So what is the latest news? have we made progress on this phase of the jft's development?

 

[Arsalan]

Thank you to so many knowledgeable people for your valuable contribution, may I ask what is the status regarding the SD-10 integration with the JFT? I think there is considerable doubt regarding the integration of this missile. So what is the latest news? have we made progress on this phase of the jft's development?

Currently Jf-17 is already using a Chinese radar and avionics pack so there is no real issue with SD-10 integration, nothing i know of!
Jf-17 have been seen flying with SD-10 on number of occasions and also the prototype planes have been spotted with SD-10.
details can be found or discussed at:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/248822-jf-17-thunder-multirole-fighter-thread-5-a.html

 

[Tacticool]

What is the status of mlu process in turkey?

 

[krash]

Then I stand corrected. Guess someone considered the mod economically worthwhile.

Back in '87 when I was transferred to the F-16 (from F-111), MacDill was an F-16 training base, Luke was the other, and MacD was on the tail end of conversion from A/B to C/D. The plan was to either mothball the A/B or sell them to overseas customers, after some National Guards and Reserve allocations, of course. We never had any plan to do any mods to the A/B because the digital C/D avionics were much more amenable to modifications, hardware and software, and when mod proposals are accepted, the mods would be quicker to implement fleet wide, and that includes global partners.

But I guess necessities compelled changes...

In addition to Pakistan, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Norway, Portugal and Jordan have also gone with it. The US had also planned to go with it but later on backed out, maybe for the reasons you stated.

 

[Arsalan]

What is the status of mlu process in turkey?

As per my knowledge, we have got back 6 F-16 Blk 15 after successful MLU by TAI, Turkey. These 6 are in addition to the initial 3 planes that were upgraded in USA. This means PAF currently have 9 MLU F-16 with them with the next batch in Turkey under process.

The Details of at least five MLU Air crafts is as below"
At the moment there are 5 MLU F-16s housed at Shahbaz AB which are as following :

1. F-16BM Serial no. 82603
2. F-16AM Serial no. 84713
3. F-16AM Serial no. 84718
4. F-16BM Serial no. 84608
5. F-16BM Serial no. 90617

Images at:
Analyzing the Pakistan Air Force's F-16 Mid Life Update (MLU) program | Terminal X

Will prefer a confirmation/update by Sir [MENTION] fatman17
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