Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Armstrong]

I doubt that PAF will go with increasing count F16 units . Adding more aircraft under one unit would save a lot of hassle, especially if in future Uncle Sam plans to stick his nose in such matters. Increasing squadron strength (of F16/JF-17 sqn) would create burden on sqn management and maintenance crew but at the same time it would bring a lot of 'punch' too, which can be distributed to different bases at the time of the need.

Khan Sahib, how can the PAF still continue going for this platform with almost certain sanctions looming over ?

I can understand how the J-10B's engine (the Chinese one) is the prime reason why we're still hoping for it to mature further but surely whatever drawback that accrues pales in comparison to the PAF's predicament if Pakistan is sanctioned for a protracted period; whatever spares we did manage to buy can't possibly be enough to see us through 5 or so years without a need to re-procure.

Or is the PAF & the Pakistani Military Establishment, by extension, do not foresee Pakistan being sanctioned post-2014 ?

 

[Najam Khan]

Khan Sahib, how can the PAF still continue going for this platform with almost certain sanctions looming over ?

I can understand how the J-10B's engine (the Chinese one) is the prime reason why we're still hoping for it to mature further but surely whatever drawback that accrues pales in comparison to the PAF's predicament if Pakistan is sanctioned for a protracted period; whatever spares we did manage to buy can't possibly be enough to see us through 5 or so years without a need to re-procure.

Or is the PAF & the Pakistani Military Establishment, by extension, do not foresee Pakistan being sanctioned post-2014 ?

In simple words, unfortunately its still the best solution for us. JF-17 is one, but we still need 3-5 more years to see the 'hard-hitting' JF-17 with all the glory you see in airshows/defence exhibitions. You need its 100-150 combat ready pilots, 3 or 4 times more ground crew and lots of delivered "live weapons"...if that all is done, then my friend days of F-16 will be over (to some extent).

Regarding J-10B, it was and is still not cleared all standards required by PAF, if it does in next 3-4 years then it will be a cost-worthy deal. However at the same time, if we manage to get similar output in JF-17 Block-III or J-31 comes up as even better solution then J-10B deal could fade away.

Regarding post-2014 sanctions, even if any such thing happens then it will be damaging for those who impose sanctions as well. US is not falling out completely from Afghanistan, its existence will remain here and till then US and its allies will not touch this subject.

If such sanctions are imposed then question arise can Pakistan can go for modifications/spares for F-16s with the help of Turkey? PAF survived more than a decade after Pressler amendments can they do the same if something similar happens? I believe you can guess these yourself...

 

[fatman17]

In simple words, unfortunately its still the best solution for us. JF-17 is one, but we still need 3-5 more years to see the 'hard-hitting' JF-17 with all the glory you see in airshows/defence exhibitions. You need its 100-150 combat ready pilots, 3 or 4 times more ground crew and lots of delivered "live weapons"...if that all is done, then my friend days of F-16 will be over (to some extent).

Regarding J-10B, it was and is still not cleared all standards required by PAF, if it does in next 3-4 years then it will be a cost-worthy deal. However at the same time, if we manage to get similar output in JF-17 Block-III or J-31 comes up as even better solution then J-10B deal could fade away.

Regarding post-2014 sanctions, even if any such thing happens then it will be damaging for those who impose sanctions as well. US is not falling out completely from Afghanistan, its existence will remain here and till then US and its allies will not touch this subject.

If such sanctions are imposed then question arise can Pakistan can go for modifications/spares for F-16s with the help of Turkey? PAF survived more than a decade after Pressler amendments can they do the same if something similar happens? I believe you can guess these yourself...

the obama admin has recently sent a 'strong' message to congress that it dosnt support any restrictions on aid to PK. for whats it worth, the bi-lateral relationship is finding 'new grounds' as both have learnt bitter lessons from the last 2 years.

 

[Thunder_Rider]

The USN aircraft. According to The Washington, back in June/July 2012, this delivery was to start in December.

Are those 14 F-16 Block 42s ?

 

[Storm Force]

Only a complete idiot would keep making the SAME MISTAKE over and over again.

THE USA has sanctioned F16 & OTHER arms to pakistan before

THEY have threatened to do more sanctions if Pakistan went against USA interests

IS INDIA A USA INTEREST i think it is now for sure WIL USA stay neutral in indo pak war....... A 100% GURANTEED KNOW

can usa help avert or shorten a indo pak war = YES by declining spares from USA & ITS ALLIES (THIS INCLUDES TURKEY) in war time

NOT a good option

 

[Najam Khan]

Only a complete idiot would keep making the SAME MISTAKE over and over again.

...and what lessons Indians learns from US sanctions on military sale to Pakistan? This weapon sale is not about a country's ego and keeping his name high, its all about business...If US or any other supplier want to make fast money, they will sell weapons. US wants military balance in the region, whether they get it by imposing sanctions or by selling weapons...they always have a unique game to play....but at the same time, foreign investors in these two countries will play their equal role in early ending war.

Now since you have dragged this into Indo-Pak war scenario, their is not going to have one at least till 2020. Both Pakistan and India are going through same phase of weapons re-equipment/ modernization and both are restructuring/restudying their strategies in conventional and unconventional war. IAF still has roughly 200-300 aircraft that needs replacement or modernization, similarly PAF has 180-220 aircraft awaiting retirement.

 

[Storm Force]

Indians are being smart with their purchases.

Firstly they have rejected USA ATTACK weapons be it F18 OR F16s

They would rather pay 25% more on Rafale MMRCA then face sanctions when in a war situation.

2nd The indian pysche is such that once they are bitten they never make the same mistake AGAIN.

EG the Russians have messed India about with Ghorskov carrier deal ... THE END RESULT the russians have lost out on 80% of the last 2 years biggest deals to other nations.

C17 C130 APACHE gun ships & engines for TEJAS to USA.
ANTI TANK & SAM missles to israel
MMRCA to French

You learn from your mistakes.

 

[batmannow]

Indians are being smart with their purchases.

Firstly they have rejected USA ATTACK weapons be it F18 OR F16s

They would rather pay 25% more on Rafale MMRCA then face sanctions when in a war situation.

2nd The indian pysche is such that once they are bitten they never make the same mistake AGAIN.

EG the Russians have messed India about with Ghorskov carrier deal ... THE END RESULT the russians have lost out on 80% of the last 2 years biggest deals to other nations.

C17 C130 APACHE gun ships & engines for TEJAS to USA.
ANTI TANK & SAM missles to israel
MMRCA to French

You learn from your mistakes.

how long it will take to acuire for india 2022? lol
well it will be to late dont u think so?

 

[Windjammer]

Indians are being smart with their purchases.

Firstly they have rejected USA ATTACK weapons be it F18 OR F16s

They would rather pay 25% more on Rafale MMRCA then face sanctions when in a war situation.

2nd The indian pysche is such that once they are bitten they never make the same mistake AGAIN.

EG the Russians have messed India about with Ghorskov carrier deal ... THE END RESULT the russians have lost out on 80% of the last 2 years biggest deals to other nations.

C17 C130 APACHE gun ships & engines for TEJAS to USA.
ANTI TANK & SAM missles to israel
MMRCA to French

You learn from your mistakes.

Read again the highlighted parts and conclude, whether you have indeed learn from your mistakes.....unless off course you think, unlike the American fighter jets, the transport and gunships are sanction proof. !!

 

[THE MASK]

A man from Sargodha, Pakistan expresses his Love and Respect with 'Pakistan Air-Force' by making models from scrap woods

 

[Donatello]

Indians are being smart with their purchases.

Firstly they have rejected USA ATTACK weapons be it F18 OR F16s

They would rather pay 25% more on Rafale MMRCA then face sanctions when in a war situation.

2nd The indian pysche is such that once they are bitten they never make the same mistake AGAIN.

EG the Russians have messed India about with Ghorskov carrier deal ... THE END RESULT the russians have lost out on 80% of the last 2 years biggest deals to other nations.

C17 C130 APACHE gun ships & engines for TEJAS to USA.
ANTI TANK & SAM missles to israel
MMRCA to French

You learn from your mistakes.

Yes Genius, so has Pakistan.

Most of the upcoming naval vessels are Chinese so are many equipment in Army, not to mention the upcoming 150 JF-17s and the current 180 or so F-7s. Plus the ZDK03, SAAB Erieye from Sweden etc.

 

[batmannow]

the obama admin has recently sent a 'strong' message to congress that it dosnt support any restrictions on aid to PK. for whats it worth, the bi-lateral relationship is finding 'new grounds' as both have learnt bitter lessons from the last 2 years.

& finding more targets like salala & abottabad?
mean time we are happy to lick same decads old lolly pop ,cause we are obssesd with it?

 

[batmannow]

Obviously no don't have any reply other than this because PAF is in fact getting zilch.

I think you need to open your eyes & search different threads for that ,do that if cant find let me know, will guide you ?

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

I think you need to open your eyes & search different threads for that ,do that if cant find let me know, will guide you ?

Apart from the continued production of JF17, there isn't much going on. If you have anything else, please do guide me.

 

[batmannow]

this thread is about F-16s?
isnt it?
try to search more, spend time on your search, you will find!
on this thread be @ topic