Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Raider 21]

Hi,

China is a little behind in EW package---.

In engine technology---it is 5th on the list after US---UK---France---Russia---.

The Turks have better access to some of the technologies thru their western alliances that the chinese do not---.

As for the J10---. We could have had our F16's if the ACM of Paf had not decided to donate the funds to earthquake relief in 2005---. Those billions were then looted by the govt employees and politicians---.

And very behind on flying operations. They have the aircraft, they have some tech but no tactical sense or awareness.

 

[Maxpane]

 

[MastanKhan]

And very behind on flying operations. They have the aircraft, they have some tech but no tactical sense or awareness.

Hi,

That is interesting information---. The chinese need to train a lot against foreign air forces---.

 

[Nasr]

Hi,

China is a little behind in EW package---.

In engine technology---it is 5th on the list after US---UK---France---Russia---.

The Turks have better access to some of the technologies thru their western alliances that the chinese do not---.

As for the J10---. We could have had our F16's if the ACM of Paf had not decided to donate the funds to earthquake relief in 2005---. Those billions were then looted by the govt employees and politicians---.

Wouldn't the Turks access to western tech be subject to scrutiny if such tech was shared with Pakistan by the Turks, in military deal? It is more than likely that the West would block access to such tech provided by the Turks. And if the Chinese are so bad at EW, then why not turn to Russia for assistance or joint cooperation? Since western tech would be used as leverage against Pakistan. Then wouldn't it be better to cut the snake's head before circumstances lead to the inevitable. And in so far as Turks are concerned, Pakistan would be wise to shield itself from a potentially ugly disaster when things take a turn for the worst.

 

[Tank131]

I dont think that we can say china is behind Turkey in EW Tech. Rather, China is probably number 3 or 4 on thr list of leaders in realm which also include France, Israel, and of course, the US. In fact, their progress in electronics has been shocking to a great extent and their development of a EW variant of the J-16 (the J-16D) which is akin to the EA-18G growler has caused a great deal of concern in the Pacific region.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...raft-might-have-terrifying-new-military-23427

 

[Maxpane]

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

That is interesting information---. The chinese need to train a lot against foreign air forces---.

That's why they have started hiring westerners (Pakistanis included) on big contracts to teach them tactics. Aircraft being used as trainers at that time was the FTC-2000 to enhance their students advanced jet training.

 

[Fieldmarshal]

That's why they have started hiring westerners (Pakistanis included) on big contracts to teach them tactics. Aircraft being used as trainers at that time was the FTC-2000 to enhance their students advanced jet training.

Mostly on deputation.

 

[Raider 21]

Mostly on deputation.

Civilians on direct contract, at that time westerners and a single Pakistani . The ones who were teaching them tactics. Currently they may have them (Pakistanis) on deputation but westerners cannot be sent on deputation to a military they have no formal military relations.

 

[Readerdefence]

I dont think that we can say china is behind Turkey in EW Tech. Rather, China is probably number 3 or 4 on thr list of leaders in realm which also include France, Israel, and of course, the US. In fact, their progress in electronics has been shocking to a great extent and their development of a EW variant of the J-16 (the J-16D) which is akin to the EA-18G growler has caused a great deal of concern in the Pacific region.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...raft-might-have-terrifying-new-military-23427

Hi my friend how are russians capability wise in EW and jamming pods I believe if not legend not too far way from Americans so can’t they help out Chinese in their training
Your input will be appreciated
Thank you

 

[Super Falcon]

As far as my knowledge our entire F 16 fleet is based on average fighting capabilities with no AESA radar enemy can jam our F 16 Radars easily and range and enemies air defence and against indian Rafales Sukhoi it wont have any chance we lack numbers and qualitive edge if you cannot see and track and lock on your enemy no matter how good pilot you are you dont have chance

Tude of fighting is changed so should be paf mentality it is not men behind machine

Give best chance to pilot with better aircrafts so he can use his skills

Can K 8 with bestvpilot defeat mig 21 with average pilot

 

[Tank131]

Its not as if the f-16 is a sitting duck. The PAFs block 52+ has one of best EW packages available from the US. It will hold its own against MKI. Additionally itnis flying under the watch of the Erieyes.

 

[Nasr]

Its not as if the f-16 is a sitting duck. The PAFs block 52+ has one of best EW packages available from the US. It will hold its own against MKI. Additionally itnis flying under the watch of the Erieyes.

18 Block-52s of Pakistan Air Force versus 272 MKi Flankers of indian Air Force. Yeah they definitely hold their own against such overwhelming odds, wouldn't they!! Quality of fighter pilot training goes only so far. The technology edge went out the window when the indians went for Flankers with Western avionics. They already had a numerical superiority against us in any case. Now we are entirely comfortable with just 18 Block-52s to take on an armada of Flankers. Simply splendid!!

Don't get me wrong brother, but it is one thing to stay positive and confident in the face of overwhelming odds. And it is another to not confront the elephant in the room. Block-52s are just dandy, but let's leave it at that, shall we?! It is time for Pakistan Air Force to move on from their romance with the F-16s. Because honestly speaking this aircraft has done nothing but give Pakistan grief from get go. F-16s Achilles heel is "SANCTIONS" ... Period!!!! It is time for us to take a 9mm and shot the mentality of seeking out western tech, in the friggin face. Unless there is a full proof contingency in place, whereby Pakistan military has sufficient stockpile of spares for any and all western hardware. There is no point, no value and no reason to discuss any western military hardware purchase. Even if it is via a "Muslim Brother Country" (yeah right!!!) Turkey. Because we have seen already what Pakistan faces the moment they inked a deal for 30 T-129 Atak helos. Now they're scrambling to find alternative engines for the dam thing to fly. I picture us already taking a shot gun and shooting ourselves in the right foot (Block-52s), then we take the shot gun and shoot ourselves in the left foot (T-129s & Milgems). Yeah I get, western tech is so great, so super awesome and is incomparable to anything else, anyone else is developing. But it's not, look the Chinese with J-20s, Y-20s, Type-55s, CV-17s and the Russians with their super weapons Avanguard HGV, Burevestnik (nuke power CM), Poseidon (nuke powered torpedo), Sarmat (ultra long range ICBM). So West is NOT the end all, be all, cure all.

The single most pivotal decision made by Pakistan Air Force is to stay on course with the development of the JF-17 Thunders. Now, when Block-lll Thunders roll out with AESA radars, it would give Pakistan Air Force a capability that not even the great and awesome Block-52s don't give us. And why is AESA such a big deal? Well, since people generally (like blind bats) watch the West so very closely ... a decade ago, the USAF leadership took the decision to upgrade their F-15 fleet and install AESA radars on as many of them as they possibly can. The reason why they did that, was to compensate for the miniscule fleet Raptors that the US Govt allowed them to field (187 of them). By installing more AESA radars on their F-15s (46 year old aircraft btw), the USAF hopes to counter RuAF & PLAAF, and their Gen-4++ fighters and Gen-5 stealth jets. For Pakistan Air Force, AESA capability couldn't come any sooner. As records show, that is what Pakistan Air Force was after the french for, before those fugly frogs left us high n dry for the indian MMRCA deal. So you see my dear brother, Block-52s maybe all that, but our Block-llls is what I have more faith in.

 

[Tank131]

18 Block-52s of Pakistan Air Force versus 272 MKi Flankers of indian Air Force. Yeah they definitely hold their own against such overwhelming odds, wouldn't they!! Quality of fighter pilot training goes only so far. The technology edge went out the window when the indians went for Flankers with Western avionics. They already had a numerical superiority against us in any case. Now we are entirely comfortable with just 18 Block-52s to take on an armada of Flankers. Simply splendid!!

Don't get me wrong brother, but it is one thing to stay positive and confident in the face of overwhelming odds. And it is another to not confront the elephant in the room. Block-52s are just dandy, but let's leave it at that, shall we?! It is time for Pakistan Air Force to move on from their romance with the F-16s. Because honestly speaking this aircraft has done nothing but give Pakistan grief from get go. F-16s Achilles heel is "SANCTIONS" ... Period!!!! It is time for us to take a 9mm and shot the mentality of seeking out western tech, in the friggin face. Unless there is a full proof contingency in place, whereby Pakistan military has sufficient stockpile of spares for any and all western hardware. There is no point, no value and no reason to discuss any western military hardware purchase. Even if it is via a "Muslim Brother Country" (yeah right!!!) Turkey. Because we have seen already what Pakistan faces the moment they inked a deal for 30 T-129 Atak helos. Now they're scrambling to find alternative engines for the dam thing to fly. I picture us already taking a shot gun and shooting ourselves in the right foot (Block-52s), then we take the shot gun and shoot ourselves in the left foot (T-129s & Milgems). Yeah I get, western tech is so great, so super awesome and is incomparable to anything else, anyone else is developing. But it's not, look the Chinese with J-20s, Y-20s, Type-55s, CV-17s and the Russians with their super weapons Avanguard HGV, Burevestnik (nuke power CM), Poseidon (nuke powered torpedo), Sarmat (ultra long range ICBM). So West is NOT the end all, be all, cure all.

The single most pivotal decision made by Pakistan Air Force is to stay on course with the development of the JF-17 Thunders. Now, when Block-lll Thunders roll out with AESA radars, it would give Pakistan Air Force a capability that not even the great and awesome Block-52s don't give us. And why is AESA such a big deal? Well, since people generally (like blind bats) watch the West so very closely ... a decade ago, the USAF leadership took the decision to upgrade their F-15 fleet and install AESA radars on as many of them as they possibly can. The reason why they did that, was to compensate for the miniscule fleet Raptors that the US Govt allowed them to field (187 of them). By installing more AESA radars on their F-15s (46 year old aircraft btw), the USAF hopes to counter RuAF & PLAAF, and their Gen-4++ fighters and Gen-5 stealth jets. For Pakistan Air Force, AESA capability couldn't come any sooner. As records show, that is what Pakistan Air Force was after the french for, before those fugly frogs left us high n dry for the indian MMRCA deal. So you see my dear brother, Block-52s maybe all that, but our Block-llls is what I have more faith in.

I agree with most everything you said, but one small correction about the only 18 blk 52+...the A/B in PAF have gone through MLU and with the exception of airframe centric issues (like cft) carry more or less the same electronics, so PAF actually has 76 F-16 which have strong EW capabilities AND the point i was making is that these are backed by ground stations and 11 AWACS (when the second round of erieye is acquired) so the EW environment is not so one-sided.

 

[Khaqan Humayun]

Hi,

WTF---where did turkey get the magic bullet from---.

Pakistan is way ahead of Turkey in fighter aircraft manufacture---. We have over a 100 inducted aircraft to prove that---.

Our alliance with china is far advanced---why do we need to step back to join hands with Turkey on a project that is far back---.

Why waste time with Turkey and invest our money---when china is way ahead and spending its money on the project---.

Dear

Pak-China and Turkey are trying to make a triangle defense corporation and they also want Russia to help them.

Turkey has excellent experience of working on F-16 it has Rolls-Royces engine technology that will help Pak-China both.

A Euro-Asian technology is required to build more batter jets.

You must see the technological advantage that turkey have.

Why do we send our F-16 to Turkey for MLU?