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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

brother we have nothing more idea then our air cheaf in one of his interview he asked which fighter jet you think best for PAF .he answer F-16 block-50+

the fleet which we have in service its started to upgrade as same as block-52 also we have more then 26 years of experince maintanance spears and combats on falcons.after block-52 inducted and MLU finished our whole falcon fleet will become deadly sharp.one of the best fighter of world we have to proud on it

block-52 can easly compear with j-10 EU fighter refale su-30 gripen etc
 
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Dear Imran,

Thanks for your kind information. I m not talking to specific model of F-16, but to general F-16 of what Pakistan airforce using.

Another thing is that, we know that there will b the day when we should have to use these F-16 against their developers to defence our country from their bad intentions, but at that time these were of no use, this is pre-programmed that you can not use these fighter planes against their developers.

Then we have to think for better solution :undecided::sad:

Well boss you can't always get wat you want in this world! :woot: the f-16's we have i do admit are old but still effective forsure and inshallah with the mul's complete they will up to any new standard f-16! when you don't have choice left you have to play your cards right the US has forsure turned there back on us each and everytime i hope they don't do it to us this time with our new blk52's!:smokin:
 
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:lol:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

honestly my brother you have no idea what are you talking or you have no knoldge abut BLK-52 of falcons.do some reserch of basic facts and come back.we are talking here not used 30 years old AB but block-52 falcons which are even not yet started in assembly line.

Well boss you can't always get wat you want in this world! :woot: the f-16's we have i do admit are old but still effective forsure and inshallah with the mul's complete they will up to any new standard f-16! when you don't have choice left you have to play your cards right the US has forsure turned there back on us each and everytime i hope they don't do it to us this time with our new blk52's!:smokin:

TopGun,

I agreed but for test case, if our government just pause the operation and other things which US ordered, then you will see Pakistan will not get a penny from them. Just try it if we have any KHUSH FEHMI about them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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i have concern abut cancel or late the deal from long time but abut money whats happen in last time peace gate4 will never happen now because that birds we pay advanced and they already finished but not deleverd this time we play smart game you can't make fool us twise remember .
 
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i have concern abut cancel or late the deal from long time but abut money whats happen in last time peace gate4 will never happen now because that birds we pay advanced and they already finished but not deleverd this time we play smart game you can't make fool us twise remember .

We play smart or not, Remember for these new incomming F-16, Pakistan didnt pay anything but the payment was deducted from the AID which we have to recieved on behalf of war againts terrorism.

So, we are not smart, but the Americans are, as they just deduct these money from thier AID.
 
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no my brother US aid 400mn$ will use for upgrade of old f-16s new 18 blk-52 will paid by GOP.its not aid at all.
 
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no my brother US aid 400mn$ will use for upgrade of old f-16s new 18 blk-52 will paid by GOP.its not aid at all.

Dear Imran,

If you insist that these were purcahe by Pakistan, then i have to agree, but what i have got the news is that Pakistan got these New F-16s in terms of AID.
 
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i will say read the contract to you

36 New F-16 Block 50/52s - $3 billion

The package for Pakistan's new F-16s also includes:
■36 F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft with either the F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines (IPEs) and APG-68(V)9 radars;
■7 spare F100-PW-229 IPE or F110-GE-129 IPE engines;
■7 spare APG-68(V)9 radar sets;
■36 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS);
■36 AN/ARC-238 SINCGARS radios with HAVE QUICK I/II;
■36 Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs) that fit along the aircraft's sides to give them extra range;
■36 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals; DID has covered the tactical uses of MIDS-LVT Link 16 systems;
■36 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/Inertial Navigation Systems;
■36 APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems;
■36 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites without Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or AN/ALQ-184 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-131 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-187 Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suites without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-178 Self-Protection Electronic Warfare Suites without DRFM;
■1 Unit Level Trainer;

Associated support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, spares and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications and technical documentation, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability.

The principal contractors will be:
■Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company, Fort Worth, TX;
■Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control, Dallas, TX;
■BAE Advanced Systems Greenlawn, NY;
■Boeing Corporation Seattle, WA;
■Boeing Integrated Defense Systems: St Louis, MO; Long Beach, CA; San Diego, CA;
■Raytheon Company: Lexington, MA; Goleta, CA;
■Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson, AZ;
■Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX;
■Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD;
■United Technology Company subsidiary Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT; or
■General Electric Aircraft Engines in Cincinnati, OH. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical review/support and program management of the aircraft.

Item 2: Weapons for F-16C/D Block 50/52 Aircraft - $650 Million

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of:•500 AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);
•12 AMRAAM training missiles
•these have seeker warheads, but lack engines;
•200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder Short-Range Air-Air Missiles; they are the version before the fifth-generation AIM-9X;
•240 LAU-129/A Launchers
•these support AMRAAM or Sidewinder missiles;
•500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits;
•1600 Enhanced-GBU-12/24 GBUs;
•800 MK-82 500 pound General Purpose (GP) and MK-84 2,000 pound GP bombs;
•700 BLU-109 2000 pound bunker-buster bombs with the FMU-143 Fuse; and,
•Associated support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, spares, and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications, and technical documentation, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability will also be provided.

The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $650 million.

The principal contractors will be:
■BAE Advanced Systems in Greenlawn, NY;
■Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX;
■Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX;
■Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX; and,
■Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical review/support, program management, and modification of the aircraft.

Item 3: F-16A/B Mid-Life Update Modification Kits - $1.3 billion

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 60 F-16A/B Mid-Life Update (MLU) modification and Falcon Star Structural Service Life Enhancement kits consisting of:


■APG-68(V)9 with Synthetic Aperture Radar or the APG-66(V)2 radar;
■Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS);
■AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems;
■AN/ALE-47 Advanced Countermeasures Dispenser Systems;
■Have Quick I/II Radios;
■Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals (MIDS-LVT);
■SNIPER (formerly known as AN/AAQ-33 PANTERA) targeting pod capability;
■Reconnaissance pod capability;
■Advanced Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Units (for training);

MDE included in the MLU modification and structural upgrade kits;

■21 ALQ-131 Block II Electronic Countermeasures Pods without the Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or ALQ-184 Electronic Countermeasures Pods without DRFM;
■60 ALQ-213 Electronic Warfare Management Systems;
■1 Unit Level Trainer;
■10 APG-68(V)9 spare radar sets.

Also included are radars, modems, receivers, installation, avionics, spare and repair parts, support equipment, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, technical assistance, publications and technical documentation, system drawings, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, and other related logistics elements necessary for full program support.

The estimated cost is $1.3 billion.

According to the DSCA, Pakistan intends to purchase the MLU Program equipment "to enhance survivability, communications connectivity, and extend the useful life of its F-16A/B fighter aircraft. The modifications and upgrades in this proposed sale will permit Pakistan's F-16A/B squadron to operate safely and enhance Pakistan's conventional deterrent capability. Pakistan's air fleet can readily use these updates to enhance and extend the life of its aircraft."

The principal contractors will be:
■BAE Advanced Systems in Greenlawn, NY;
■Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX;
■Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX;
■Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX; and,
■Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD.


Item 4: F-16A/B Engine Modifications & UP/STAR - $151 Million

The third contract involves Engine Modifications and Falcon UP/STAR Structural Upgrades as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $151 million.

More specifically, the Government of Pakistan has requested engine improvements and structural modifications to its F-16 fleet, which includes a possible sale of:
■14 F100-PW-220E engines;
■14 Falcon UP/STAR F-16 structural upgrade kits;
■De-modification and preparation of 26 aircraft;
■Support equipment;
■Software development/integration;
■Modification kits;
■Spares, and repair parts;
■Flight test instrumentation;
■Publications and technical documentation;
■Personnel training and training equipment;
■U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to support the program.

The principal contractors will be:
■Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX; and,
■United Technology Company subsidiary Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT.


Potential Controversies

The DSCA has said that "Release of this system would not significantly reduce India's quantitative or qualitative military advantage". India disagrees and military experts in Delhi will likely note that the same equipment (GPS, targeting pods, bunker-busters) that could potentially find uses against al-Qaeda terrorists in Pakistan's "lawless frontier" could also be used in precision strikes on India's military facilities in the event of war.

The DSCA counters that release of the F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft to Pakistan "will neither affect the regional balance of power nor introduce a new technology as this level of capability or higher already exists in other countries in the region". India does operate more advanced SU-30MKI aircraft with R-77 "AMRAAMski" missiles, advanced avionics, et. al.; these are superior in range, armament, and maneuverability to Pakistan's F-16s and will remain so. Meanwhile, India's $7-10 billion MRCA competition is certain to introduce 125-200 aircraft that are certain to be more advanced than the F-16 Block 50/52.

The U.S. DSCA adds in its submission to Congress that "The modification of the engines and Falcon UP/STAR structural updates will provide capable F-16s that can be used for close air support in ongoing operations contributing to the GWOT." The DSCA also cites the June 2004 designation of Pakistan as a Major Non-North Atlantic Treaty Organization Ally in its submission. The British commander of NATO's ISAF force in Southern Afghanistan sees Pakistan's role in a rather different light, however; he recently noted that al-Qaeda in Afghanistan is still run out of Pakistan (specifically Quetta), with Pakistani knowledge and even support from Islamist elements in its security apparatus. Ah, the dynamics of counter-insurgency in tribal societies. Pakistan angrily denies this, of course.

India's objections to this sale have been muted thus far, and phrased carefully to emphasize their effect on India-Pakistan ties rather than India-U.S. ties. Meanwhile, President Bush's personal diplomacy approach has fostered a strong relationship with Gen. Musharraf that is inclined to view such requests favourably as part of the U.S.A.'s 3-corner balancing act in the region. Barring unusual circumstances, therefore, it's reasonable to expect this sale to go through with little more than a concerned speech or two in Congress.
 
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yes, but dont you think it is the ideal case,, i mean setting eye on F18 or even JH7s will sort of detrack PAF future programmes. ft the moment there approach is clear one,,, get JF17 to support each and every mission and when you come up against something sort or high-end machines, call for FC20 and F16 blk52,,, :agree:

as far as i can think, there is no other plne that will fit in the role, not atleast for the next 5 to 8 years to come as after that we would be done with JF17 and FC20 and with these platforms mature enogh to run smoothly, only then PAF may seek for a next generation plane or any new plane!!

so to make the JF17 possible to fit in a wide range of routies job it surely need a powerfull engine and additional hardpoint, once it comes the problem we are disscussing will be resolved with out the need on any new bird like F18 or JH7!!
i hope you understand what i am saying! :)

regards!

Yeah I got actually I agree with you on this. I just gave example of JH-7A and F-18 as dedicated maritime strikers. I know we are not going to get them. Now If we look at FC-20... It fit perfectly in this picture as It has huge AL-31FN turbofan with high thrust and Payload + range. So I would not be surprised if these opted role of current Squadron 8:pakistan::pakistan:
 
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Accoring to Deccan Chronicle, Sep 20, 2009

Prior to Pakistan’s Swat campaign, about 10 F-16 aircraft equipped with high-resolution, infra-red sensors were provided by the US to conduct detailed reconnaissance of the entire Swat Valley. These may have already been used to spy on the Indian stretches along the international boundary.

Is that true? Does any one know about this?

Pak?s tarnished credibility | Deccan Chronicle
 
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As i have been to all post in this forums, i m very much surprised that we are proud of F-16 which were left by american airforce because they think these F-16 completed their duty cycle.

You can say they have retired these F-16 from their airforce, and instead of destroying these f-16, they sell these to countries like us and earned money from these retired one's.


bro the discussion going on is about the new blk 52z. perhaps you better take some pain and atleast view last couple of pages to get yourself familiar with topic and discussion rather then comming in, reading the last post and making comments.:disagree:
as far as old F16 are considered they are not retired b USAF, it is no OPH frigate brother it is F16 and perhaps you may have listened something about MLU and STAR upgrade which will bring them on par with Blk 40+!!! :agree:
again brother, no offense to you but my friendly request is that you beter care to go through the topic before posting comments, it will surely help you build your image! :toast_sign:

regards!
 
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Accoring to Deccan Chronicle, Sep 20, 2009

Prior to Pakistan’s Swat campaign, about 10 F-16 aircraft equipped with high-resolution, infra-red sensors were provided by the US to conduct detailed reconnaissance of the entire Swat Valley. These may have already been used to spy on the Indian stretches along the international boundary.

Is that true? Does any one know about this?

Pak?s tarnished credibility | Deccan Chronicle

Very few possibility to be true. Any movement of US F-16s in Pakistan would had been easily detected by Media.
 
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Dear Imran,

If you insist that these were purcahe by Pakistan, then i have to agree, but what i have got the news is that Pakistan got these New F-16s in terms of AID.


no dear it is not about Sir Imaran Khan insisting you for the wrong, all he is trying to do is to present you with facts.
perhaps there is a confusion here,
pakistan paid for blk 15 which were sanctioned, now we are getting them and some of there money in therer upgradation is provided by US aid progamme. as far as Blk 52 are concerned, Paksitan signed a deal od 36 F16 blk52 for which the government of pakistan had to pay! perhaps you are confusing with aid programmes as after the kashmir earthquake US acting on pakistans request shifted some of these payment to earthquake fund and thus agree to return the money of 18 planes for earthquake and give 18 planes instead of 36. many take it as a govrnment initiative to get rid of ever unreliable US reliance and when presented with opportuinity they bounced on it to get some money back and reduce F16, many also doubt this report.
i hopw you got it cleared now!

regards!
 
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no dear it is not about Sir Imaran Khan insisting you for the wrong, all he is trying to do is to present you with facts.
perhaps there is a confusion here,
pakistan paid for blk 15 which were sanctioned, now we are getting them and some of there money in therer upgradation is provided by US aid progamme. as far as Blk 52 are concerned, Paksitan signed a deal od 36 F16 blk52 for which the government of pakistan had to pay! perhaps you are confusing with aid programmes as after the kashmir earthquake US acting on pakistans request shifted some of these payment to earthquake fund and thus agree to return the money of 18 planes for earthquake and give 18 planes instead of 36. many take it as a govrnment initiative to get rid of ever unreliable US reliance and when presented with opportuinity they bounced on it to get some money back and reduce F16, many also doubt this report.
i hopw you got it cleared now!

regards!

I got the point, but at the end of report, it is clearly mentioned that what was offer to Pakistan is below than what India has, and also what will be offer to India would be higher than what was offer to Pakistan??????

This is the 2 sided face of America that we claim ourselves as a partner in war against terrorism and what America is offering to us and the country which is our enemy what America is offering to them?
 
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DCNS reports always writes like this see every report to congrass its same like this .abut india USA is free to sell her arm to any one and India is free to buy arms from any one as a nation of 1 bn ppl.as a pakistani you have to know what you have options for buy arm and from were with which money.if we have $$$$$ we can go to refale EU fighter gripen not to USA its all matters of money not two or three faces.we already cut the deal of falcons and divert money to J-10 [FC-20}so you have no to worry abut india or US arms sale to any one.our future waipons for air force already moved to east 250JF-17 36 J-10 70+ f-16s and with mirages f-7PGs is much more for defend our country.also future posible j-11b or j-xx after 10 years .now tell me are we going wrong or we have lack of jets?
 
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