Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Lil Mathew]

South korea is upgrading its136 F-16 block 52 with costing 1.1 billion dollars including AESA
Pakistan has 76 F-16s majority MLU upgraded or block 52. I think it won't cost more than 500 million dollars to be equivalent to block 60. It would take PAf to have 4.5 / 4.75 generation fighters. Share your thoughts

This $1.1 billion figure is not correct..
The Korea upgrade is in two phases. Phase 1 is estimated to cost about $200 million for contractor technical, engineering and logistics support services for the initial design. Phase 2 will include the Raytheon radar and updated avionics. The total bill for South Korea could be as high as $2.4 billion if all of the options are exercised.
BAE Targets Lockheed in Asia's F-16 Upgrade Wars | Defense News | defensenews.com
A full potential upgrade ( like IAF's mirage upgrade) same like Singapore f16 upgrade costs more than 40 million /aircraft
USA outlines $2.4 billion Singapore F-16 upgrade - 1/15/2014 - Flight Global

 

[fatman17]

What about the update of Pakistan F16s ? any plan to acquire more or any further deal ? I feel that that was the last batch of F16s arrived the newer one BLK 52

we can excercise option on 18 F-16C/D's but it has to be with our own funds. congressional approval is available.

I read this yesterday, and I thought about the prospect of our F-16s acquiring AESA radars (SABR or RACR). It seems to me that PAF would find it hard to finance this for the whole fleet. In case we go for 18 more F-16 Blk 52, we may get AESA radar upgrade for 36 Blk 52.

most un-likely.

 

[fatman17]

PAF is satisfied with the MLU program for its Block-15OCU. all 41 aircraft will be close in capability to the Block-52. now PAF has to decide what to do with the 13 ex-Jordan vipers.

 

[PK_Patriot]

This $1.1 billion figure is not correct..
The Korea upgrade is in two phases. Phase 1 is estimated to cost about $200 million for contractor technical, engineering and logistics support services for the initial design. Phase 2 will include the Raytheon radar and updated avionics. The total bill for South Korea could be as high as $2.4 billion if all of the options are exercised.
BAE Targets Lockheed in Asia's F-16 Upgrade Wars | Defense News | defensenews.com
A full potential upgrade ( like IAF's mirage upgrade) same like Singapore f16 upgrade costs more than 40 million /aircraft
USA outlines $2.4 billion Singapore F-16 upgrade - 1/15/2014 - Flight Global

"could be as high" but as reported by reuters, F-16.net and reliable resources that F-16 upgrades are costing ~1 billion dollar BAE finalizes South Korean F-16 upgrade deal, eyes more prospects| Reuters
Taiwan also upgrading its fleet from lockhead martin in 1.8 billion dollars (south korea choosed BAE)
F-16V radar integration clears way for Taiwan upgrade - IHS Jane's 360

 

[Rank]

we can excercise option on 18 F-16C/D's but it has to be with our own funds. congressional approval is available.

Any chance Pakistan will go for "E" ?

 

[Donatello]

Any chance Pakistan will go for "E" ?

No, because it was exclusive to UAE and as such royalties might have to be paid, plus it costs more than the D version, which PAF is having hard time procuring in the first place.

 

[Rank]

No, because it was exclusive to UAE and as such royalties might have to be paid, plus it costs more than the D version, which PAF is having hard time procuring in the first place.

Israel also have E version right? and what is the actual cost of single F16 bought by Pakistan *18 batch) without any other external hardware like POD etc.

 

[Donatello]

Israel also have E version right? and what is the actual cost of single F16 bought by Pakistan *18 batch) without any other external hardware like POD etc.

I think the original contract was 1.6-1.8billion USD for 18 new F-16s.

Israel doesn't have the E version, but rather the C/D BLK52 models, which include a lot of Israeli made systems for EW/ECM/IFF etc. I believe they are called F-16 Sufa.

The E/F versions were built only for UAE on their request, but in case of either the Israeli Sufa or UAE E/F (desert falcon) they are based on the BLK50/52 models to start with, for example the provision to carry CFTs and a raised dorsal spine to house those electronics.

 

[Rank]

I think the original contract was 1.6-1.8billion USD for 18 new F-16s.

Israel doesn't have the E version, but rather the C/D BLK52 models, which include a lot of Israeli made systems for EW/ECM/IFF etc. I believe they are called F-16 Sufa.

The E/F versions were built only for UAE on their request, but in case of either the Israeli Sufa or UAE E/F (desert falcon) they are based on the BLK50/52 models to start with, for example the provision to carry CFTs and a raised dorsal spine to house those electronics.

Do you foresee a future of F16s in PAF or Pakistan will leave F16 and move on towards some other platform? (Hint: J31)

 

[Donatello]

Do you foresee a future of F16s in PAF or Pakistan will leave F16 and move on towards some other platform? (Hint: J31)

F-16s will linger on for 20 years. J-31 might start arriving in 8-10 years, depending on how many India procures, since a low RCS/Stealth aircraft will tip the balance a lot, and regardless of whatever, Pakistan will need to procure it to maintain some deterrence.

Now given US is willing to work with Pakistan, and if Republicans come in power, then expect USA to be pro Pakistan, which means Pakistan can push for more f-16s. But i believe they could be the used ones from other sources like Jordan/Turkey/Egypt or NATO ones. So that's one way to bolster the fleet and upgrade them to MLU.

Keep in mind that MLU and BLK50 f-16s are among the most potent aircraft in the region, and as such can take on anything IAF has one on one. Secondly it may be good to exercise the option for the original 18 F-16s, since the approval is already there. But funds are the issue. Otherwise PAF would rather ditch JF-17 numbers and get F-16s. They love the fighting falcons.

 

[razgriz19]

Momentum will be directly proportional to speed. Plus this is not a normal physics collision since the boar is not a rigid body. It would have probably been thrown away by the impact. So, the reverse impact on the plane's body should actually be quite lesser as compared to what it would have been had the plane hit a really rigid object.

Anyways I read you link and found only one line on the incident.

"Also in 2008, a Kingfisher Airlines aircraft hit a stray dog on the runway at the HAL Bangalore International Airport, resulting in the aircraft’s landing gear collapsing. The aircraft skidded off the runway and its nose collapsed; four passengers were injured. "

If an airliners landing gear can collapse from a dog, a boar is a much heavier animal and F-16 is much smaller airplane. Reults would be devastating as they were in that crash.

Preventing Runway Incursions | Airports International | The Airport Industry online, the latest airport industry news

 

[shanis]

They don't have population and land like Pakistan ..... Qatar has world's highest GDP per capita after Luxembourg ,,,, but both of them have no population ! They can't even keep an army of 10K


Upgrade all F-16 to block 60 by introducing AESA radars along with all version of JF-17 thunder with AESA and smart BVRs

Who will upgrade all F-16 to block 60 with AESA ... impossible ... America will not do
and In block 1 and 2 dont have AESA but let see after some year when other country going and will have 5th generation crafts ... we will go for AESA 4 and 4.5 crafts .... in 2015 we much have more then 200 aircrafts AESA system but now it will happend after 5 to 6 year later ....

PAF is satisfied with the MLU program for its Block-15OCU. all 41 aircraft will be close in capability to the Block-52. now PAF has to decide what to do with the 13 ex-Jordan vipers.

Why PAF is satisfied with MLU block 15 program ......... i think we must upgrade our AESA to block 60 program AESA system ...

 

[PK_Patriot]

Who will upgrade all F-16 to block 60 with AESA ... impossible ... America will not do
and In block 1 and 2 dont have AESA but let see after some year when other country going and will have 5th generation crafts ... we will go for AESA 4 and 4.5 crafts .... in 2015 we much have more then 200 aircrafts AESA system but now it will happend after 5 to 6 year later ....



Why PAF is satisfied with MLU block 15 program ......... i think we must upgrade our AESA to block 60 program AESA system ...

I think you are not following the link from start, BAE a British/european comapny is updating F-16 for south korea, right now every company is downsizing BAE or lockhead martin will be more than happy to update for PAkistan. You have to make them do it "Menou note wikha mera mood banay" :p

 

[Donatello]

PAF is satisfied with the MLU program for its Block-15OCU. all 41 aircraft will be close in capability to the Block-52. now PAF has to decide what to do with the 13 ex-Jordan vipers.

The Jordanian F-16s carry the APG 66 or 68?

Also, they are MLU-ed but not the full MLU, so they probably cannot fire AIM120.......or can they?

 

[PK_Patriot]

The Jordanian F-16s carry the APG 66 or 68?

Also, they are MLU-ed but not the full MLU, so they probably cannot fire AIM120.......or can they?

PAF has acquired these planes to use after upgrades ! Latest upgrades will make them equivalent to C/D Block in alot of perspectives