Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[airomerix]

Great, thanks, then this must leave 19 with very little spare time/airframes to do QRA no?

Some are on QRA 24/7, piloted by IPs/senior sqn ld's. Even though Bholari is supported by units from Shahbaz and Masroor, It currently acts like a FOB surrounded by vast deserts. It has given more pain to IAF's units at Bhuj AFS that acts as a FOB for No.15 sqn (Su's) based out of Sirsa. The same units support IAF's no.6 sqn based a little more to the south at Jamnagarh that operates Jaguar strike sqn. So in an event of war, IAF has to worry about Bholari first before engaging Karachi. Otherwise, if they plan to fly over the arabian sea, they have to worry about PN's submarine fleet that is capable of surface to air attack.

And Bholari will never be a primary target for IAF. It will always be units in Karachi or bases in Punjab. Jaccoabad is an exception because 11 and 5 both will serve as interceptors for both PAF's central command and southern command In short, Bholari currently serves as IAFs 'migraine'

One can go check with AVM Shamim or older folks circa 1998-2000 on what we could have had or planned out for Viper sims.
Neural feedback for G-simulation was once thought up, except the PAF never wanted to put the money into getting top neurologists involved but was happy getting all viper pilots go bald - and they say the PAF did not think beyond 5 years.

I never knew PAF gave it a thought. However it would be interesting to study the impact on PAF's capability had this neuro based simulators ever materialised. Any thoughts? @Raider 21

 

[SQ8]

Some are on QRA 24/7, piloted by IPs/senior sqn ld's. Even though Bholari is supported by units from Shahbaz and Masroor, It currently acts like a FOB surrounded by vast deserts. It has given more pain to IAF's units at Bhuj AFS that acts as a FOB for No.15 sqn (Su's) based out of Sirsa. The same units support IAF's no.6 sqn based a little more to the south at Jamnagarh that operates Jaguar strike sqn. So in an event of war, IAF has to worry about Bholari first before engaging Karachi. Otherwise, if they plan to fly over the arabian sea, they have to worry about PN's submarine fleet that is capable of surface to air attack.

And Bholari will never be a primary target for IAF. It will always be units in Karachi or bases in Punjab. Jaccoabad is an exception because 11 and 5 both will serve as interceptors for both PAF's central command and southern command In short, Bholari currently serves as IAFs 'migraine'


I never knew PAF gave it a thought. However it would be interesting to study the impact on PAF's capability had this neuro based simulators ever materialised. Any thoughts? @Raider 21

Reducing airframe usage was the primary concern, essentially the pilots get the full feel sim with physical experience. The sim part of it was a piece of cake but the dev team simply would not think about it unless the PAF got top neurologists involved - but they did not want to put in the money for that so the team said nothing doing , we’re not risking pilot lives with a subject engineers know nothing about.

There was also attempts to mate other BVR systems but the viper is fairly locked out - I guess the advantage of having ADA is its secure nature(not that the C++ used for JF & F-35 isn’t secure today).

 

[truthfollower]

23rd march is here and i want to ask what went wrong with the F-16 that was crashed last year?

 

[GriffinsRule]

Some are on QRA 24/7, piloted by IPs/senior sqn ld's. Even though Bholari is supported by units from Shahbaz and Masroor, It currently acts like a FOB surrounded by vast deserts. It has given more pain to IAF's units at Bhuj AFS that acts as a FOB for No.15 sqn (Su's) based out of Sirsa. The same units support IAF's no.6 sqn based a little more to the south at Jamnagarh that operates Jaguar strike sqn. So in an event of war, IAF has to worry about Bholari first before engaging Karachi. Otherwise, if they plan to fly over the arabian sea, they have to worry about PN's submarine fleet that is capable of surface to air attack.

And Bholari will never be a primary target for IAF. It will always be units in Karachi or bases in Punjab. Jaccoabad is an exception because 11 and 5 both will serve as interceptors for both PAF's central command and southern command In short, Bholari currently serves as IAFs 'migraine'


I never knew PAF gave it a thought. However it would be interesting to study the impact on PAF's capability had this neuro based simulators ever materialised. Any thoughts? @Raider 21

Wait what? Really, air craft have to worry about 3-5 subs with Anza SAMs in the entire Arabian Sea? And why would they be guarding Karachi instead of being on offensive missions?

 

[airomerix]

Wait what? Really, air craft have to worry about 3-5 subs with Anza SAMs in the entire Arabian Sea? And why would they be guarding Karachi instead of being on offensive missions?

Subs work in mysterious ways. They remain hidden and are extremely difficult to track. Historically, PN subs have been targeting IN assets that have been en route to Karachi. Also, Karachi is much farther away, any overflights over arabian sea will also be met with PN's surface vessels with early warning radars and surface to air capability.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Any sub found on the surface will be a sitting duck. Even a strafing run will virtually finish it off as it wont be able to dive again.

 

[untitled]

Subs work in mysterious ways.

Any sub found on the surface will be a sitting duck. Even a strafing run will virtually finish....

You guys are talking about a submerged launch, right?

 

[SQ8]

23rd march is here and i want to ask what went wrong with the F-16 that was crashed last year?

What is the assumption that something went wrong? Also there is a discourse on it you can search under the pilots name - wg cmdr noman ali khan.

 

[GriffinsRule]

You guys are talking about a submerged launch, right?

No man, there is no submerged launch against aircraft from our subs. Subs also dont have radars to find any such targets. The best they can manage is to try to identify ASW helicopters flying above by noise signatures against the waves.
PN subs "might" have a couple of ANZA sams as a means of last resort to be used against ASW helos or aircraft in case it has to surface for whatever reason. Otherwise there is no capability to attack any fighter jets.
And lets say even if as suggested you let a sub score a kill against a jet flying over (hopefully a IAF Mirages and not a PAF Mirage), fighters jets don't attack by their lonesome. If a sub fires a SAM, you can bet your bottom dollar the other aircraft in the strike package will make quick work on it.
The whole idea has no bearing in the real world.

 

[airomerix]

No man, there is no submerged launch against aircraft from our subs. Subs also dont have radars to find any such targets. The best they can manage is to try to identify ASW helicopters flying above by noise signatures against the waves.
PN subs "might" have a couple of ANZA sams as a means of last resort to be used against ASW helos or aircraft in case it has to surface for whatever reason. Otherwise there is no capability to attack any fighter jets.
And lets say even if as suggested you let a sub score a kill against a jet flying over (hopefully a IAF Mirages and not a PAF Mirage), fighters jets don't attack by their lonesome. If a sub fires a SAM, you can bet your bottom dollar the other aircraft in the strike package will make quick work on it.
The whole idea has no bearing in the real world.

Subs do not operate in silo's. When a frigate knows a package is incoming, a sub would know too. The systems are fairly integrated. These are not the subs of 1971.

High flying Mirage 2000s will not even get a clue of a loitering sub. A couple of SAMs later and the strike package is already on the defensive. Once the sub dives, they are hard to find unless a ASW assets are scrambled, location triangulated and the sub is tracked/trapped. Point being, any flying over sea by IAF will be met by unpleasanteries by the PN.

 

[baqai]

23rd march is here and i want to ask what went wrong with the F-16 that was crashed last year?

Nothing, it was pilot error

 

[airomerix]

Any sub found on the surface will be a sitting duck. Even a strafing run will virtually finish it off as it wont be able to dive again.

Scorpene subs can launch MICA SLAM from a considerable depth. The missile is inside a torpedo-like casing and as it submerges, it opens up and the booster is activated. You're right in a way that it is primarily for ASW assets. But I cant imagine PN vessels not doing anything about a strike package en route Karachi.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Scorpene subs can launch MICA SLAM from a considerable depth. The missile is inside a torpedo-like casing and as it submerges, it opens up and the booster is activated. You're right in a way that it is primarily for ASW assets. But I cant imagine PN vessels not doing anything about a strike package en route Karachi.

PN subs have no such capability. And if they are going to be along w surface ship with AAM, why would those not be used vs some bloke trying to fire a heat seeking missile from outside the sub?
Anyways, I hope that is not the surprise PN subs have for Indian military.

 

[Clairvoyant]

PN subs have no such capability. And if they are going to be along w surface ship with AAM, why would those not be used vs some bloke trying to fire a heat seeking missile from outside the sub?
Anyways, I hope that is not the surprise PN subs have for Indian military.

Completely agree with you on this,no such capability exists.Bholari's F.16's might not be able to put a tough fight because of their lack of BVR capability and let's not degrade Indian Jaguars. They're going through DARIN III upgrade and are being fitted with AESA radars and ASRAAM's. I wouldn't wana pit an AIM.9L/M equipped Viper against a HOBS equipped Jaguar.

End of the day the fight will be done by the Vipers from Paf Shahbaz or early version A/B series AMRAAM's need to be bought for our ADF vipers which I don't see happening at all.

 

[Yasser76]

Completely agree with you on this,no such capability exists.Bholari's F.16's might not be able to put a tough fight because of their lack of BVR capability and let's not degrade Indian Jaguars. They're going through DARIN III upgrade and are being fitted with AESA radars and ASRAAM's. I wouldn't wana pit an AIM.9L/M equipped Viper against a HOBS equipped Jaguar.

End of the day the fight will be done by the Vipers from Paf Shahbaz or early version A/B series AMRAAM's need to be bought for our ADF vipers which I don't see happening at all.

Dude? You serious?? You know about the serious issue with the Jaguars engines? These planes are massively under powered, to the point they do not carry a full weapons load. In hot conditions they struggle to take off. If a Jaguar is on a bombing mission it will be the very definition of a sitting duck, it's thrust to weight ration being half that of a F-16