Pakistan discusses Su-35, S-400, T-90 MBT purchase with Russia.

[GURU DUTT]

Janab your Army is not prepared they failed to do anything in 2002 failed to do anything after 2008 created false Drama of surgical strike which only led to you loosing 20 soldiers within a month of the claim including we entering your area twice and eliminating your soldiers their. So please bother to do something you will be given all kinds of answer

is this 2002 or 2008 ?

is this govt ruled by soft people like atal bihari vajpayee or man mohan singh ?

rest of the jingoism is not even worth talking as its not part of the topic so mulla ji lets talk on the topic dont talk things which are owt of your aukat lest remain on topic ... shall we

 

[ZedZeeshan]

is this 2002 or 2008 ?

is this govt ruled by soft people like atal bihari vajpayee or man mohan singh ?

rest of the jingoism is not even worth talking as its not part of the topic so mulla ji lets talk on the topic dont talk things which are owt of your aukat lest remain on topic ... shall we

Who ever it was ruled by in the past the result was same and will be same even today.

 

[Shabi1]

guess what we learned owr lessons in 1999 and the flight cieling of your ANZA 1&2&3 is at max 4.5 KM even if its fired from a mountain top

but the flight cieling of LCA or apache are from 6Km (rudra & apache)to 6.5 KM (LCH) now you cant even target them with your manpadts and for your other SAMS they have active protections like onboard jammers ., Chaffs & flairs ...now what


dod russian athoirutues told you indian came there for sale of weapons to pakistan

lolzz whats the valoume of sale of russian weapons sale to pakistan and whats the voloume of russian weapons sale to india use your logic

Your argument is flawed. Max altitude for Anza Mk2 is 4000m, if you are firing from a mountain the altitude above sea level is added to that. For eg for Kargil the altitude is 2,676 m above sea level so if a Anza 2 is fired from that type of location it will now have a max engagement altitude of 4000+2676 = 6676m. Apache ceiling is 6,400m but from web searches it rarely exceeds 2889m with combat load, LCH ceiling is 6500m but max tested for high altitude operation has been 15800/4815.84m. In reality neither numbers matter because what is quoted is usually under ideal conditions and minimal loadouts/reduced ranges.
However the real flashpoint is that Pakistan has between 4000-5500 MANPAD missiles (actual number is unknown) in it's inventory and that is a huge number. According to wikipedia Anza-1 & 2 production is 2650 (1000+2650) and Anza-3 is in production since 2012-13. And then there are the Stinger, Chinese and other EU procurements. Combine that with the number of AA guns which are in greater numbers than the MANPADs. Low-Mid altitude flight on Pakistan's north eastern borders will have very low survival rates in times of conflict.
Attack helos if a conflict breaks out will likely be kept within own borders from both sides, else its almost suicide.


"
Anza Mk-II - A third generation MANPADS,[25] believed to be based on the Chinese QW-1 MANPADS.[26] Uses a dual-band, cross-scan infra-red homing seeker to counter decoy flares.[27] Also believed to use American missile technology.[28] Approximately 1650 Anza Mk-II were produced between 1994-2012.[29]

• Anza Mk-III - Believed to be based on the Chinese QW-2 MANPADS,[30] modifications made to meet Pakistan Army requirements include increased range up to 5 km, improved sensors and a new firing unit similar to the Russian 9K38 Igla MANPADS.[31][32]((non reliable sources)) All-aspect attack capability and improved ECCM capability.[10] It also has a vehicle-mounted launcher variant.

"

 

[GURU DUTT]

Who ever it was ruled by in the past the result was same and will be same even today.

times keep changing so does circumstances and so does your economy and defnce prepairdness and international stature

on top of all indians like pakistanies do not live in past we keep upgrading each passing day rest keep speculation and dreaming no harm in it

Your argument is flawed. Max altitude for Anza Mk2 is 4000m, if you are firing from a mountain the altitude above sea level is added to that. For eg for Kargil the altitude is 2,676 m above sea level so if a Anza 2 is fired from that type of location it will now have a max engagement altitude of 4000+2676 = 6676m. Apache ceiling is 6,400m but from web searches it rarely exceeds 2889m with combat load, LCH ceiling is 6500m but max tested for high altitude operation has been 15800/4815.84m. In reality neither numbers matter because what is quoted is usually under ideal conditions and minimal loadouts/reduced ranges.
However the real flashpoint is that Pakistan has between 4000-5500 MANPAD missiles (actual number is unknown) in it's inventory and that is a huge number. According to wikipedia Anza-1 & 2 production is 2650 (1000+2650) and Anza-3 is in production since 2012-13. And then there are the Stinger, Chinese and other EU procurements.


"
Anza Mk-II - A third generation MANPADS,[25] believed to be based on the Chinese QW-1 MANPADS.[26] Uses a dual-band, cross-scan infra-red homing seeker to counter decoy flares.[27] Also believed to use American missile technology.[28] Approximately 1650 Anza Mk-II were produced between 1994-2012.[29]

• Anza Mk-III - Believed to be based on the Chinese QW-2 MANPADS,[30] modifications made to meet Pakistan Army requirements include increased range up to 5 km, improved sensors and a new firing unit similar to the Russian 9K38 Igla MANPADS.[31][32]((non reliable sources)) All-aspect attack capability and improved ECCM capability.[10] It also has a vehicle-mounted launcher variant.

"

go and ask any army or air force personell and ask him weather that flight cieling of a missle changes if the firring alltitude is changed ...?... answer is big no its basic principal of physicas go ask any airforce or missle opreater of army i challenge you ... rest keep dreaming @MastanKhan saheb please teach this kid abot some genral physics

 

[Vapnope]

but the flight cieling of LCA or apache are from 6Km (rudra & apache)to 6.5 KM (LCH) now you cant even target them with your manpadts and for your other SAMS they have active protections like onboard jammers ., Chaffs & flairs ...now what

Do you understand that a laser guided sam system (RBS 70) is unaffected by "Super Duper Chaffs and Flairs?"
Which helicopter pilot is going to attack from the altitude of 6.5 Km?

RBS-70 Bolide Mk-II missiles, sights supplied to Pakistan

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rbs-...pplied-to-pakistan.459689/page-3#post-8886883

 

[Shabi1]

times keep changing so does circumstances and so does your economy and defnce prepairdness and international stature

on top of all indians like pakistanies do not live in past we keep upgrading each passing day rest keep speculation and dreaming no harm in it


go and ask any army or air force personell and ask him weather that flight cieling of a missle changes if the firring alltitude is changed ...?... answer is big no its basic principal of physicas go ask any airforce or missle opreater of army i challenge you ... rest keep dreaming @MastanKhan saheb please teach this kid abot some genral physics

The maximum flight altitude of a non air breathing missile is calculated from the launcher. Its rocket propelled so is unaffected by air density.

 

[ali_raza]

times keep changing so does circumstances and so does your economy and defnce prepairdness and international stature

on top of all indians like pakistanies do not live in past we keep upgrading each passing day rest keep speculation and dreaming no harm in it


go and ask any army or air force personell and ask him weather that flight cieling of a missle changes if the firring alltitude is changed ...?... answer is big no its basic principal of physicas go ask any airforce or missle opreater of army i challenge you ... rest keep dreaming @MastanKhan saheb please teach this kid abot some genral physics

ur argument is weightless here.
the only thing hinders on high altitudes is air being thin.
anza doesn’t breath air.soo good luck trying it like u did in past

 

[Theparadox]

Well IAF expected to make S-400 operational by 2022. We've asked for more than 12 S-400, basically war is coming. Pakistan needs to buy them soon.

 

[KapitaanAli]

I think Indians got Russian message loud and clear and that's why this is happening there ... read carefully how Indian ministry asked IAF to look for "Twin-Engine" as well. Most probably, India will finish with purchasing more than 100 Mig-35 or Su-35 or some upgraded variant of MKIs.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/20-billion-defence-project-india-kicks-off-process-to-procure-110-fighter-jets-for-iaf/articleshow/63646424.cms?

All Russia can hope for in that regard is HAL making 40 additional MKI.
They don't care too much about us buying Western as of now since billions in Kamovs and MKI upgrade is outstanding.

I don't count S400 since that's a necessity to us. Ka226 is a useful luxury since LUH is on and MKI upgrade can be done in-house if push comes to shove. But we'll pay the Russians anyway.

 

[tarrar]

When the deal is inked & sealed then I will say great, well done. But for now lets keep reading & hearing such news.

 

[Vapnope]

have to appreciate the complete lack of intelligence displayed by certain members in trying to downplay the service ceiling of the RBS-70.. by justifying that a attack helicopter fly at higher altitudes so that it avoid being hit by it. only to be picked off by fighters like sitting ducks. Bravo sir! The need to self TC is bigger than any aqal.

check your fact flight altitude of RBS70 you got too is 5000mtere or 5Km still Rudra or apache got 1000metre window of operation and LCH full 1.5 Km window

RBS 70

RBS 70 training simulator
Type Short-range Air Defense (SHORAD)
Man-portable air-defence system (MANPADS)
Place of origin Sweden
Service history
In service 1977–present
Wars Iran–Iraq War, 1992 Venezuelan coup d'état attempts
Production history
Manufacturer Bofors Defence (1980s–2000)
Saab Bofors Dynamics (since 2000)
Specifications
Weight 87 kg (Stand + Sight + Missile)
Length 1.32 m
Diameter 106 mm
Warhead 1.1 kg Combined with 3,000 tungsten spheres and shaped charge
Detonation
mechanism
Adaptive proximity fuze function with 3 selectable modes (Off, Normal, Small target)
Engine Booster and sustainer with smokeless solid propellant
Wingspan 32 cm
Operational
range
250 m – 8 km
Flight altitude 5,000 m
Speed Mach 1.6 (Mark 0/1)
Mach 2 (5 km in 12 seconds) (Mark 2/BOLIDE)
Guidance
system
Laser beam riding missile
Launch
platform
tripod, weapon platform (ASRAD-R) and warship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS_70

Highlighted for your ease... Nice way to skirt the original question how is a laser guided system can be blinded by flairs and chaffs? Now back and figure it out.

 

[GURU DUTT]

ur argument is weightless here.
the only thing hinders on high altitudes is air being thin.
anza doesn’t breath air.soo good luck trying it like u did in past

had that been such a simple affair more than a dozen nations would hve build there own MANPADS but could not its not that simple buyt keep dreaming point still remain flight cieling does not changes with change in firring altitude go and ask from any perso who has fired a MANPAD in his life

Highlighted for your ease... Nice way to skirt the original question how is a laser guided system can be blinded by flairs and chaffs? Now back and figure it out.

point is here we were talking about MANPADS like RBS70 & ANZA which ar heat seeking and not active or apssiive radar guided forget some new gen latest in USAF & ISAF kitty multi seeker head type do some research chaffs and flairs are not the only things rudra or LCH or apache have to blind MANPADs they also have actibe jammers plus ground based backup that will be helping then in case of war then there will be active artilerry barrage against enemy postions backed by weapons locting radars and many Harop & Harpy like hunter killer drones hovering above to search and destroy your radar isntalations and then there will be indian spy sattelites scanning so will be all indian ground and aerostat based radars and of course Phalcon AWACS sacanning and jamming your radars where they could

 

[Vapnope]

RBS70 & ANZA which ar heat seeking and not active or apssiive radar guided

From scale 1 to Guru Dutt how thick you are?
RBS 70 is Laser beam riding missile system and no chaffs and flairs can stop it. You cannot launch attack from LCH and Rudra from the alt of 6.5 km.

 

[Vapnope]

well kid you want me to tell you exact specifications and countermeasures on indian assets on a publik defnce portal

but trust me kid every indian asset then be it fighter jet or helicopter gunship has chaffs & flairs and anty bean ridding counter measures (mostly israeli supplied since long ) now keep speculating but point is we learned owr lessons from kargil war and soviet war in afghanistan before it so we know what are we against so do not worry we are fully ready just waiting for paksitan to make the first move and mistakes and then

Ok "Old Man" i am very scared now..

Lesson learned = Laser Riding Missiles will be blinded by Chaffs and Flairs = Mind Blown !

 

[Shabi1]

g

check your fact flight altitude of RBS70 you got too is 5000mtere or 5Km still Rudra or apache got 1000metre window of operation and LCH full 1.5 Km window

RBS 70

RBS 70 training simulator
Type Short-range Air Defense (SHORAD)
Man-portable air-defence system (MANPADS)
Place of origin Sweden
Service history
In service 1977–present
Wars Iran–Iraq War, 1992 Venezuelan coup d'état attempts
Production history
Manufacturer Bofors Defence (1980s–2000)
Saab Bofors Dynamics (since 2000)
Specifications
Weight 87 kg (Stand + Sight + Missile)
Length 1.32 m
Diameter 106 mm
Warhead 1.1 kg Combined with 3,000 tungsten spheres and shaped charge
Detonation
mechanism
Adaptive proximity fuze function with 3 selectable modes (Off, Normal, Small target)
Engine Booster and sustainer with smokeless solid propellant
Wingspan 32 cm
Operational
range
250 m – 8 km
Flight altitude 5,000 m
Speed Mach 1.6 (Mark 0/1)
Mach 2 (5 km in 12 seconds) (Mark 2/BOLIDE)
Guidance
system
Laser beam riding missile
Launch
platform
tripod, weapon platform (ASRAD-R) and warship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS_70


flight altotude has nothing to do with only rocket propulssion alone its about control of gyroscope and other vital instruments inbuilt please do some research

Yes but thats the guidance part. For rocket propelled missiles ceiling is from launcher and for aircraft and helicopters ceiling is above sea level to account for air density. Infact lower the air density rockets perform better.

DO your research and learn your physics.

And if you are still not satisfied.
http://www.unm.edu/~tbeach/flashstuff/RocketAltitudeFixedSize.html
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation