Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain

[Mav3rick]

Not because mush left, if that was the case even with earth quake in 2005 mush should never had reduced the 77 F-16s purchase. Over the top all the funds for earth quake hit areas went missing.

It is better we let go any potential J-10s deal and concentrate on JF-17 and any other incremental upgrades or Blocks.

You have absolutely no idea how much resources and effort were committed to the Earth Quake Recovery.

So no J-10B/FC-20 for PAF in the foreseeable future.

Not really.......its more like, no J-10B/C until Rafale deal is finalized by India!

 

[Storm Force]

I FIND IT VERY AMUSING that in the J10 thread WHEN I suggested THAT PAF would should do all it can to BUY MORE F16/52s from USA citing that they are overall much better fit , well known, proven and a nitemre for IAF

i WAS ridiculed, accuised of trolling and all sorts and taken off thread.

THIS MINUTE NOW i see so called seniors * & juniors are dare i say suggesting the same FORGET the costly intro of another 4 gen chinse fighter STICK TO MORE F16/52.

Why so hypocritical people just because I am not a pakistani

 

[Luftwaffe]

You have absolutely no idea how much resources and effort were committed to the Earth Quake Recovery.

Not really.......its more like, no J-10B/C until Rafale deal is finalized by India!

Believe me I have the exact idea where the money went. Do you have the idea the Northern Areas where EQ had hit did you even visited it after 2-3 Years I visited and it was and is the same people like you and me helped them a lil bit government was blatant to consume almost the entire money you could say 10-12% committed and the rest gone to pockets. No point in half baked help they should have committed to all 77 F-16s.

There is no evidence to suggest about J-XC/D/E nor is there any real commitment on J-10 it is like if cash permits we'll get it if not it still fine.

You indians need to take your rafleas and makai out of this Thread.

 

[Cherokee]

2014 is the year J10 will arrive mark that year Indians

Pray tell me o Wise one why should we mark that year ??

 

[Sinnerman108]

I FIND IT VERY AMUSING that in the J10 thread WHEN I suggested THAT PAF would should do all it can to BUY MORE F16/52s from USA citing that they are overall much better fit , well known, proven and a nitemre for IAF

i WAS ridiculed, accuised of trolling and all sorts and taken off thread.

THIS MINUTE NOW i see so called seniors * & juniors are dare i say suggesting the same FORGET the costly intro of another 4 gen chinse fighter STICK TO MORE F16/52.

Why so hypocritical people just because I am not a pakistani

It is Dumb to go for F-16s for the following reason.

1. F-16 is retiring, and on it's way out. Lockheed will announce end of service sooner than expected after which it will be just as expensive to maintain as the Mirages.

2. Pakistan && PAF has paid dearly for the F-16, diplomatically and financially.

3. J-10 is a young model, it has future and it has a partner country who will carry it forward and keep developing it for the coming decades.

There is no way, F-16 should beat the odds

 

[bandit]

It is Dumb to go for F-16s for the following reason.

1. F-16 is retiring, and on it's way out. Lockheed will announce end of service sooner than expected after which it will be just as expensive to maintain as the Mirages.

2. Pakistan && PAF has paid dearly for the F-16, diplomatically and financially.

3. J-10 is a young model, it has future and it has a partner country who will carry it forward and keep developing it for the coming decades.

There is no way, F-16 should beat the odds

All good points, only problem is, you don't have the MONEY!

And your partner friend isn't as large hearted as USA to give it away to you for free.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Two things that need watching in the context of this thread are:

1. MNS's visit to USA on 23rd October.

2. Actual procurement plans for IAF.

If PAF is looking at F-16s as an option then that would reflect upon our commitment to J-10.

As long as we have a large number of F-16s, there is no harm in increasing the number by a couple of squadrons. But obviously sticking to F-16s is not a viable long-term strategy. But we do desperately need to retire aging aircraft that are fast becoming a liability. If we can not induct JF-17s in numbers, for whatever reason, we would need to look at F-16s. If these birds do not cost us much, then we should look at them in limited numbers.

Another factor is that Pakistan perhaps need to communicate to USA that we do not wish to allow our mutual ties to suffer more degradation. USA must not be happy about loss of influence in Pakistan. A few discounted F-16s would be a good sign for both sides.

J-10 would still be on the table, I believe. Its fate shall be decided by IAF's plans and the availability of Chinese stealth fighter aircraft.

 

[Mav3rick]

Believe me I have the exact idea where the money went. Do you have the idea the Northern Areas where EQ had hit did you even visited it after 2-3 Years I visited and it was and is the same people like you and me helped them a lil bit government was blatant to consume almost the entire money you could say 10-12% committed and the rest gone to pockets. No point in half baked help they should have committed to all 77 F-16s.

There is no evidence to suggest about J-XC/D/E nor is there any real commitment on J-10 it is like if cash permits we'll get it if not it still fine.

You indians need to take your rafleas and makai out of this Thread.

I am not an Indian.

 

[Sinnerman108]

All good points, only problem is, you don't have the MONEY!

And your partner friend isn't as large hearted as USA to give it away to you for free.

It has nothing to do with heart.
The Americans will subsidize the F-16s, and get a lot of diplomatic leverage.
If Pakistan does not comply with what the Americans want, the planes will be left without support from Lockheed.

So in order to sustain any power projection, we will have to sell our balls to American grip.

Without ever being sure if the F-16s will work in every environment against any enemy !

 

[Luftwaffe]

I am not an Indian.

The last part was for indian members discussing iaf.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Two things that need watching in the context of this thread are:

1. MNS's visit to USA on 23rd October.

2. Actual procurement plans for IAF.

If PAF is looking at F-16s as an option then that would reflect upon our commitment to J-10.

As long as we have a large number of F-16s, there is no harm in increasing the number by a couple of squadrons. But obviously sticking to F-16s is not a viable long-term strategy. But we do desperately need to retire aging aircraft that are fast becoming a liability. If we can not induct JF-17s in numbers, for whatever reason, we would need to look at F-16s. If these birds do not cost us much, then we should look at them in limited numbers.

Another factor is that Pakistan perhaps need to communicate to USA that we do not wish to allow our mutual ties to suffer more degradation. USA must not be happy about loss of influence in Pakistan. A few discounted F-16s would be a good sign for both sides.

J-10 would still be on the table, I believe. Its fate shall be decided by IAF's plans and the availability of Chinese stealth fighter aircraft.

With very limited options and funding why do people advocate to spend on F-16s/J-10s when previous Pak bought each F-16 for $167m appx includes entire costs associated, logic tells the limited funds should go towards JF-17s only. I failed to understand why J-10 is attached to iaf's decision J-10 has nothing to do with it nor are we in any race and there is no point in getting a Third type that has almost the same role like F-16s and JF-17s.

As Oscar pointing out.

Or, if effort were used to interpret that statement.. the cost of trainings, integrating and logistical framework needed for the J-10 would be higher than that for the F-16 which already exists.

In order to succeed or even survive JF-17 Program for the long term the focus and funding should be channeled towards it. You people need to first outline where J-10s role would fit-in. It would be injustice to the survival of JFT program if a third type with roughly similar capabilities is considered in such a bad economic conditions or for the fact under any conditions. JFT program needs to evolve further another new type is just restricting it by cutting funds and anything associated. Lastly focus on getting better BVR missiles and weaponry/systems or improve upon the current.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

It has nothing to do with heart.
The Americans will subsidize the F-16s, and get a lot of diplomatic leverage.
If Pakistan does not comply with what the Americans want, the planes will be left without support from Lockheed.

So in order to sustain any power projection, we will have to sell our balls to American grip.

Without ever being sure if the F-16s will work in every environment against any enemy !

What happened to your Stronger then Mountain and deeper then sea friendship ? when times comes it becomes and weak and shallow?

 

[Chak Bamu]

With very limited options and funding why do people advocate to spend on F-16s/J-10s when previous Pak bought each F-16 for $167m appx includes entire costs associated, logic tells the limited funds should go towards JF-17s only. I failed to understand why J-10 is attached to iaf's decision J-10 has nothing to do with it nor are we in any race and there is no point in getting a Third type that has almost the same role like F-16s and JF-17s.

As Oscar pointing out.



In order to succeed or even survive JF-17 Program for the long term the focus and funding should be channeled towards it. You people need to first outline where J-10s role would fit-in. It would be injustice to the survival of JFT program if a third type with roughly similar capabilities is considered in such a bad economic conditions or for the fact under any conditions. JFT program needs to evolve further another new type is just restricting it by cutting funds and anything associated. Lastly focus on getting better BVR missiles and weaponry/systems or improve upon the current.

There are two caveats. First, we must get a good deal on F-16s. If that is not possible, then we should steer clear of them. Second, one day F-16s are going to retire. What would replace them, if not J-10? Surely, one can not expect our JF-17 to be able to replace -16s.

 

[janon]

Is it possible for Pakistan to get a few older F-16s from the USAF, when they retire them? That could be tremendous value for money in many ways. Also stock up on spares from the retiring squadrons, like they did with the mirages.

 

[Luftwaffe]

There are two caveats. First, we must get a good deal on F-16s. If that is not possible, then we should steer clear of them. Second, one day F-16s are going to retire. What would replace them, if not J-10? Surely, one can not expect our JF-17 to be able to replace -16s.

For the next good 20 years forget F-16s retirement from PAF the only saner option could be J-31 if it succeeds, I ask you where would JF-17 be in next 10 Years in terms of advancement would you still want to invest in J-10, I think we would need to move towards something like J-31 in limited numbers and slowly increase.