Pakistan cuts steel on third Azmat-class missile patrol craft

[That Guy]

I agree this is minimum which we need betweem 2020 to 2025

If all goes to plan, 2020-2025 is going to be a trans-formative year for the navy, it has to be as 2030 is the deadline for the CPEC projects (15 year deadline to get both Gwadar and CPEC fully operational).

 

[Zarvan]

If all goes to plan, 2020-2025 is going to be a trans-formative year for the navy, it has to be as 2030 is the deadline for the CPEC projects (15 year deadline to get both Gwadar and CPEC fully operational).

Lets hope for the best

 

[rockstar08]

If all goes to plan, 2020-2025 is going to be a trans-formative year for the navy, it has to be as 2030 is the deadline for the CPEC projects (15 year deadline to get both Gwadar and CPEC fully operational).

dont you think we should be preparing for the Worse ? in case of War , where PN stands ? they are barely capable of Defending the Coast lines , in next 5 Years IN will be a Huge Force to confront with .. and the speed our Navy is modernizing its fleet , i dont think they will be catching up with their Enemy soon .. Its not 71 , if IN able to Penetrate our Coast line defense , than the Destruction will be 10 time more .. we need to Build or make some deals with China , there is no Cover from the Sky to our Ships , without a Proper Air Cover our Ships , Which have no Potent Sam' System will be sitting ducks ..
since the day i join PDF i am hearing that 6 Subs , 2 Type 54A Frigate and Naval version of Babus Rumors , and nothing showed up yet ...not even a deal in inked ...
i dont understand what Navy is Doing , if they need Fund they should ask Govt , make a presentation and tell them that we are keeping behind ..
or maybe the NAVY has realized that there wont be any war in near Future .. so lets be cool and lazy

 

[RAMPAGE]

If all goes to plan, 2020-2025 is going to be a trans-formative year for the navy, it has to be as 2030 is the deadline for the CPEC projects (15 year deadline to get both Gwadar and CPEC fully operational).

With $600 billion GDP by 2025 and $18 defence budget, we can start building a CVBG and launch it by 2035.

A CVBG with 4 multi-purpose destroyers + 10 x 5000 tons SSNs + 4 x12000 tons SSBNs. Imagine that!

 

[Bratva]

With $600 billion GDP by 2025 and $18 defence budget, we can start building a CVBG and launch it by 2035.

A CVBG with 4 multi-purpose destroyers + 10 x 5000 tons SSNs + 4 x12000 tons SSBNs. Imagine that!

It's much more economical to build Naval airbase and launch aircraft with IFR than to build and maintain CVBG

 

[That Guy]

dont you think we should be preparing for the Worse ? in case of War , where PN stands ? they are barely capable of Defending the Coast lines , in next 5 Years IN will be a Huge Force to confront with .. and the speed our Navy is modernizing its fleet , i dont think they will be catching up with their Enemy soon .. Its not 71 , if IN able to Penetrate our Coast line defense , than the Destruction will be 10 time more .. we need to Build or make some deals with China , there is no Cover from the Sky to our Ships , without a Proper Air Cover our Ships , Which have no Potent Sam' System will be sitting ducks ..
since the day i join PDF i am hearing that 6 Subs , 2 Type 54A Frigate and Naval version of Babus Rumors , and nothing showed up yet ...not even a deal in inked ...
i dont understand what Navy is Doing , if they need Fund they should ask Govt , make a presentation and tell them that we are keeping behind ..
or maybe the NAVY has realized that there wont be any war in near Future .. so lets be cool and lazy

The navy is indeed under funded, but it's role is finally being taken seriously. Acquisitions will take time, as years of neglect need to be taken care of first.

Pakistan will never be able to match India's navy, but a good defense is needed to act as a deterrent.

 

[rockstar08]

The navy is indeed under funded, but it's role is finally being taken seriously. Acquisitions will take time, as years of neglect need to be taken care of first.

Pakistan will never be able to match India's navy, but a good defense is needed to act as a deterrent.

yeah i know it will take years but question is how many ?
The Enemy is growing day by day , there is a lesson our Navy should learn from 71 bombing , If IN able to block our sea lines , than this time , it will be much more hard to break it ..
sometimes i wonder that does NAVY has a plan to induct ? or any strategy to follow , sometimes they want to buy OHP junks , sometimes they want more F-22p's , no Heavy Fighters for Naval Air wing , no heavy Destroyers with good SAM systems to protect our ships ..

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The PN wants 8 in total. They will periodically add them to the line as and when funds become available.

PN would be inducting 10-12 in total over a period of 10yrs.

Instead of producing more Azmat class .. PN need to focus more on stealth FAC like swedish visbay class

Why do you want PN to add a new type?

Pakistan is in talks for 4 Type 56 we need at least 16 Frigates and Corvettes and when economy improves than 4 to 6 cruise missile destroyers

Why are we going for Type 56? Is it to replace Tariq Class..

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

dont you think we should be preparing for the Worse ? in case of War , where PN stands ? they are barely capable of Defending the Coast lines , in next 5 Years IN will be a Huge Force to confront with .. and the speed our Navy is modernizing its fleet , i dont think they will be catching up with their Enemy soon .. Its not 71 , if IN able to Penetrate our Coast line defense , than the Destruction will be 10 time more .. we need to Build or make some deals with China , there is no Cover from the Sky to our Ships , without a Proper Air Cover our Ships , Which have no Potent Sam' System will be sitting ducks ..
since the day i join PDF i am hearing that 6 Subs , 2 Type 54A Frigate and Naval version of Babus Rumors , and nothing showed up yet ...not even a deal in inked ...
i dont understand what Navy is Doing , if they need Fund they should ask Govt , make a presentation and tell them that we are keeping behind ..
or maybe the NAVY has realized that there wont be any war in near Future .. so lets be cool and lazy

Where do we stand today??? We have much higher chance of defending us today then we had in the past. It is not an IDEAL situation...Still you consider India is going to attack Pakistan knowing that it would have to face a Nuclear attack on an Indian city. No doubt Indian Navy is a huge force and is increasing itself by modernization.

Don't you remember what was said by the Chinese President? "A attack on Islamabad would be considered an attack on Beijing."
Lets consider that this is just words and no action would be taken other then some sanctions, more statements of condemnation and UN Security Council session. But that itself would be a defeat for India and a victory of Pakistan.

What is the current speed?
1) Pakistan to raise 12000 marines.
2) 8 Cutters from USA.
3) 4 ATR's
4) 4 F22 Frigates
5) 8 Chinese Subs.
6) 18-36 JF-17's.
7) Azmat Class Current thread.
8) Landing Craft
9) Fleet Tanker

So sorry to hear that you have been waiting for such a long time (rockstar08 Joined: Sep 18, 2013) but PN is doing nothing for you.

 

[banvanaxl]

yeah i know it will take years but question is how many ?
The Enemy is growing day by day , there is a lesson our Navy should learn from 71 bombing , If IN able to block our sea lines , than this time , it will be much more hard to break it ..
sometimes i wonder that does NAVY has a plan to induct ? or any strategy to follow , sometimes they want to buy OHP junks , sometimes they want more F-22p's , no Heavy Fighters for Naval Air wing , no heavy Destroyers with good SAM systems to protect our ships ..

IMO the a CBG is not really the solution for Pakistan right now given the financial constraints, You need anywhere from 12 to 18 billion dollars as CAPEX and another 250 - 400 million USD annually to maintain a CBG. Not sure but that figure would be something like PNs entire operational budget for a year.

A better option would be to build up your underwater fleet. The Agostas with AIP are decent subs but you would obviously need much more to counter the IN in the Arabian seas.

not sure how good the Chinese options are though, maybe German .. idk

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Where do we stand today??? We have much higher chance of defending us today then we had in the past. It is not an IDEAL situation...Still you consider India is going to attack Pakistan knowing that it would have to face a Nuclear attack on an Indian city. No doubt Indian Navy is a huge force and is increasing itself by modernization.

Don't you remember what was said by the Chinese President? "A attack on Islamabad would be considered an attack on Beijing."
Lets consider that this is just words and no action would be taken other then some sanctions, more statements of condemnation and UN Security Council session. But that itself would be a defeat for India and a victory of Pakistan.

What is the current speed?
1) Pakistan to raise 12000 marines.
2) 8 Cutters from USA.
3) 4 ATR's
4) 4 F22 Frigates
5) 8 Chinese Subs.
6) 18-36 JF-17's.
7) Azmat Class Current thread.
8) Landing Craft
9) Fleet Tanker

So sorry to hear that you have been waiting for such a long time (rockstar08 Joined: Sep 18, 2013) but PN is doing nothing for you.

4 Frigates and that to F-22

the news got Confirmed that we are gong for more F-22 ??

 

[rockstar08]

Where do we stand today??? We have much higher chance of defending us today then we had in the past. It is not an IDEAL situation...Still you consider India is going to attack Pakistan knowing that it would have to face a Nuclear attack on an Indian city. No doubt Indian Navy is a huge force and is increasing itself by modernization.

Don't you remember what was said by the Chinese President? "A attack on Islamabad would be considered an attack on Beijing."
Lets consider that this is just words and no action would be taken other then some sanctions, more statements of condemnation and UN Security Council session. But that itself would be a defeat for India and a victory of Pakistan.

What is the current speed?
1) Pakistan to raise 12000 marines.
2) 8 Cutters from USA.
3) 4 ATR's
4) 4 F22 Frigates
5) 8 Chinese Subs.
6) 18-36 JF-17's.
7) Azmat Class Current thread.
8) Landing Craft
9) Fleet Tanker

So sorry to hear that you have been waiting for such a long time (rockstar08 Joined: Sep 18, 2013) but PN is doing nothing for you.

stop bringing the nuke , you and i we both know that even in case of War its not easy to push the red Button , Pakistani Army is not crazy ... what i am talking here is conventional war ,
our Navy is been neglected from years , and we cant always say that we have nukes so we dont want any weapon .. if that was the case than we dont need any System , just make more BM and CM's and no more tanks , Attack heli , and other systems ..

now ..
1) Pakistan to Raise 12,000 Marines .. for what ? do you know what marines are for ?? are we going to launch a Invasion in case of war ??
2) 8 Cutters -- nothing but Patrol crafts ..
3) 3 ATR's , did we get them ??
4) 4 F-22p's ? if you are talking about more f-22p's than we are still waiting to sign any deal , and you are talking about those previous , than consider this that we have 4-5 type 21 which is older than 30 years ... once they are retired , we will have a huge gap to fill ..
5) 8 Chinese Subs , still no deal signed yet ...
6) 18-36 Jf-17 when this happen ? yeah i am listening that they order and blah blah ... but truth is that right now PAF is busy in Fulfilling their own requirement ...and Jf-17 for Navy against Mig-29k will be a joke ..we need a heavy Striker like M2k or J-series ..
7) Landing craft , for what ? again useless thing to induct , we have no intention to invade any land or have no Island or Forward bases for reinforcement ...
8) Fleet Tanker ...

yeah i joined this site some 2 and half years ago but i have been reading stuff on PDF from like 2010-2011 , and still heard nothing about things i mentioned .. Babur naval version still in development , 6-8 Chinese subs still no deal signed .

IMO the a CBG is not really the solution for Pakistan right now given the financial constraints, You need anywhere from 12 to 18 billion dollars as CAPEX and another 250 - 400 million USD annually to maintain a CBG. Not sure but that figure would be something like PNs entire operational budget for a year.

when did i say we need a CBG ? did you care to read the post ??
Pakistan is on its way to buy Subs , that is for sure , but its taking time ..
PN need a boost , and quick boost ..
in 2020 , i would want PN to have these ..

12-14 Frigates
6-8 Subs with AIP and able to launch CM's
2-3 Type 54A Destroyers
6-8 Azmat Class FAC
Corvette ..
and at least 2 sqs of J-series

 

[Muhammad Omar]

stop bringing the nuke , you and i we both know that even in case of War its not easy to push the red Button , Pakistani Army is not crazy ... what i am talking here is conventional war ,
our Navy is been neglected from years , and we cant always say that we have nukes so we dont want any weapon .. if that was the case than we dont need any System , just make more BM and CM's and no more tanks , Attack heli , and other systems ..

now ..
1) Pakistan to Raise 12,000 Marines .. for what ? do you know what marines are for ?? are we going to launch a Invasion in case of war ??
2) 8 Cutters -- nothing but Patrol crafts ..
3) 3 ATR's , did we get them ??
4) 4 F-22p's ? if you are talking about more f-22p's than we are still waiting to sign any deal , and you are talking about those previous , than consider this that we have 4-5 type 21 which is older than 30 years ... once they are retired , we will have a huge gap to fill ..
5) 8 Chinese Subs , still no deal signed yet ...
6) 18-36 Jf-17 when this happen ? yeah i am listening that they order and blah blah ... but truth is that right now PAF is busy in Fulfilling their own requirement ...and Jf-17 for Navy against Mig-29k will be a joke ..we need a heavy Striker like M2k or J-series ..
7) Landing craft , for what ? again useless thing to induct , we have no intention to invade any land or have no Island or Forward bases for reinforcement ...
8) Fleet Tanker ...

yeah i joined this site some 2 and half years ago but i have been reading stuff on PDF from like 2010-2011 , and still heard nothing about things i mentioned .. Babur naval version still in development , 6-8 Chinese subs still no deal signed .



when did i say we need a CBG ? did you care to read the post ??
Pakistan is on its way to buy Subs , that is for sure , but its taking time ..
PN need a boost , and quick boost ..
in 2020 , i would want PN to have these ..

12-14 Frigates
6-8 Subs with AIP and able to launch CM's
2-3 Type 54A Destroyers
6-8 Azmat Class FAC
Corvette ..
and at least 2 sqs of J-series

Well said

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

stop bringing the nuke , you and i we both know that even in case of War its not easy to push the red Button , Pakistani Army is not crazy ... what i am talking here is conventional war ,
our Navy is been neglected from years , and we cant always say that we have nukes so we dont want any weapon .. if that was the case than we dont need any System , just make more BM and CM's and no more tanks , Attack heli , and other systems ..

now ..
1) Pakistan to Raise 12,000 Marines .. for what ? do you know what marines are for ?? are we going to launch a Invasion in case of war ??
2) 8 Cutters -- nothing but Patrol crafts ..
3) 3 ATR's , did we get them ??
4) 4 F-22p's ? if you are talking about more f-22p's than we are still waiting to sign any deal , and you are talking about those previous , than consider this that we have 4-5 type 21 which is older than 30 years ... once they are retired , we will have a huge gap to fill ..
5) 8 Chinese Subs , still no deal signed yet ...
6) 18-36 Jf-17 when this happen ? yeah i am listening that they order and blah blah ... but truth is that right now PAF is busy in Fulfilling their own requirement ...and Jf-17 for Navy against Mig-29k will be a joke ..we need a heavy Striker like M2k or J-series ..
7) Landing craft , for what ? again useless thing to induct , we have no intention to invade any land or have no Island or Forward bases for reinforcement ...
8) Fleet Tanker ...

yeah i joined this site some 2 and half years ago but i have been reading stuff on PDF from like 2010-2011 , and still heard nothing about things i mentioned .. Babur naval version still in development , 6-8 Chinese subs still no deal signed .

No one would like to fire the red button that is for sure. Still that is there as a last choice. Even if we stop bringing these in to play still back of the mind they are going to play their part. No more discussion regarding them.

You are absolutely correct Navy has been neglected and now it has to be brought up to a level where it is a force.
The need for Marines has been their for a long time. These are now really important because of the internal situation and advancements towards a common GCC Force ( Pakistan has refused to take part now but in the future it is not going to refuse).

In an other thread regarding MRTP33's I replied @fatman17
↑
The navy for some weird reason has not been able to define a clear role for this platform - missile boat or patrol boat or both.
PN requires to correctly identify what equipment suites their role best and then procure it. IMO Azmat class and above is Naval requirement any thing below it should be for coast guard.

Actually the Navy does require these but in limited numbers as they can only be used by the marines.

Though all the platforms that you have mentioned can be given to the Coast Guard which would suite their requirements. If the coast guard requires further assistance then Pakistan Navy could give them support.

Considering 8 Cutters should technically be part of the Coast Guard and not PN.

The points 3-5 are still not yet signed but they are going to be signed very soon. The British Type 23 along with The Turkish Barbados Class and the U-209's also in consideration but did not mention those because nothing conclusive can be found.

You are absolutely correct about the J-16's been an advocate of them for a long time. Unfortunately the JF-17's would only be added as this is going to speed up the procurement once the duel version is available. There was a thread regarding China would be giving 110 JF-17 thunders to Pakistan in 5 years. Wonder will they be locally produced in Pakistan or will they be flown to Pakistan and will some of them be part of the Navy.

 

[That Guy]

yeah i know it will take years but question is how many ?
The Enemy is growing day by day , there is a lesson our Navy should learn from 71 bombing , If IN able to block our sea lines , than this time , it will be much more hard to break it ..
sometimes i wonder that does NAVY has a plan to induct ? or any strategy to follow , sometimes they want to buy OHP junks , sometimes they want more F-22p's , no Heavy Fighters for Naval Air wing , no heavy Destroyers with good SAM systems to protect our ships ..

Money is slowing down induction, the navy has a lot of plans, but little cash to spare.