“Pakistan could have been a Regional Mighty Power By Now” - Debate

[StormBreaker]

This is all the bullshit your hear in pakistani media. Who is the biggest problem in pakistan. Spreading lies, half truths.
If you read Pakistan's history and sit quietly and ponder where we went wrong. I would tell you our problem.
IT ALL STARTS WITH KASHMIR AND ENDS WITH KASHMIR.
OUR CONFLICT OF KAHSMIR LOST US BANAGLADESH. OUR CONFLICT OF KAHSMIR IS THE REASON OF FIGHT WITH INDIA.
now there are two mindsets in pakistan.
1.That apologetic mindset that is kinder to india, wanted to live as a dependant state side by side as bangladesh. Posing no danger to India, and its ambition of becoming a global power. Limiting relations with China and living side by side as a clinet state. This mindset even went as far as being applogetic for partition. This mindset believes in no borders. This mindset believes in declaring the LOC as international border and army and establishment is their biggest hurdle.
2.the other mindset that wants to fight the India to Kashmir till the last. The see India as rivals. They wanted to grow as a power equal to india. They don't want to live as a clinet nation.
These two mindset fights each other in pakistan. The 2nd group doesn't even necessarily belong to army and establishment. Imran khan, his party and most of the pmln except nawaz and his cabinet member and select few falls in 2nd group.
The 1st group belongs to people's party (have serious doubts of them being loyal to the idea of Pakistan), pmln leadership etc....


Now as the 2nd groups is the largest in pakistan. And this group believes in the idea of Pakistan. India fought it off with huge funding. They have successfully challenged the idea of pakistan. Plotted it in our elite, our politicians, our youth. Why?
Beacause as long as you demand kashmir the only solution Indian government see is to balkanize you. As they have done in Bangladesh. Almost 90 percent of the journalist are from this lobby. Almost all pakistani so called thinkers are from this lobby.
Their job is malign Pakistan army, isi, ideology of Pakistan. Because ideology of Pakistan supports that a seperate nation from the Indian Union can exist.
A secular Pakistan like bangaladesh where people repent their separation from India is the thing Indian needed.
Now both of the groups are fighting each other and through half way they loose.
If نواز sherif wanted to live as a client state of India and as dependant on India and give kahsmir then he should tell his constituents. But he won't.
Again if this lobby believes in it then go ahead and do it.
And if the other lobby belives that the pro Indian lobby is wrong then they must eliminate them. Why knowing that nawaz is corrupt Indian stooge and insulted army all over the world, army gave him an nro and send him away.
This is hurting Pakistan.
Either the pro India lobby control our establishment and live as Indian slave. Then be it.
And if the other lobby wanted something different then it must eliminate the Indian stooge politicians.
And if pro Indian politicians get the control of the country then they are repaonsible for balochistan, fata, army saving paksitani borders. Because I certainly don't trust that if you become a sevrnat state of India they would stoop attacking your bounder through non state actors or Afghanistan.

Your idea of Pakistan is wrong, hence the post

 

[truthfollower]

; kuj shar da lok vi zalam san; kuj sanu maran da shok vi si.

shar da lokaan da pata nae per sanu maran da bara shok aay

 

[Ace of Spades]

It is the inevitable conclusion of Taliban victory in Afghanistan and the CPEC, TAP routes. History definitely seems to be moving in that direction.

Remember that in 1999, we were discussing some kind of federation or merger with them already. 2001 war by US put an end to that. It is time can continue in that vein, knowing full well the mistakes we have made in the past during Musharraf's despotic rule.

Having taliban in gov. in Afghanistan won't change anything for Pakistan if she herself is not economically stable. There has to be a great incentive for common people of Afghanistan to even think about some sort of arrangement with Pakistan and what would be the counter offer? Pakistan has long way to go... and i am afraid this idea will only materialize here as a mere post in some lost thread on PDF.

 

[PradoTLC]

One word: Afghanistan.

There lies the solution for all our problems. Time for Pakistan to expand.

err no...

two words

Quality education

 

[Pakistansdefender]

Your idea of Pakistan is wrong, hence the post

The speed with which you replied clearly shows that you haven't even read my complete comment.
Pakistan is as much mine as yours.
There are two lobbies at fight with each other. Pro Indian and anti Indian. Both loose their heart half way during the fight.
1 lobby has to win and eliminate the other. Otherwise we cannot move forward.

 

[Ace of Spades]

The speed with which you replied clearly shows that you haven't even read my complete comment.
Pakistan is as much mine as yours.
There are two lobbies at fight with each other. Pro Indian and anti Indian. Both loose their heart half way during the fight.
1 lobby has to win and eliminate the other. Otherwise we cannot move forward.

lol india is stopping to build schools? hospitals? provide quality education? having law and order? justice? and encouraging for haram khori?

 

[fitpOsitive]

One word: Afghanistan.

There lies the solution for all our problems. Time for Pakistan to expand.

No sir, India must be divided first. At all costs. Afghanistan is like fever in Malaria. Fever is not the main issue, Malaria is.

 

[StormBreaker]

The speed with which you replied clearly shows that you haven't even read my complete comment.
Pakistan is as much mine as yours.
There are two lobbies at fight with each other. Pro Indian and anti Indian. Both loose their heart half way during the fight.
1 lobby has to win and eliminate the other. Otherwise we cannot move forward.

I have had a lifetime experience of reading and understanding in real time, So I have a great speed at that

I hope you didn’t get offended...

 

[truthfollower]

I have had a lifetime experience of reading and understanding in real time, So I have a great speed at that

Please share tips for it

 

[StormBreaker]

lol india is stopping to build schools? hospitals? provide quality education? having law and order? justice? and encouraging for haram khori?

Bribe is

Please share tips for it

Learn at least 3 different languages, Take another language as a base for reading,

Challenge your mind to understand what you are reading at the same time and gradually try to speed up.

OR

Just study Biology

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

err no...

two words

Quality education

No sir, India must be divided first. At all costs. Afghanistan is like fever in Malaria. Fever is not the main issue, Malaria is.

Having taliban in gov. in Afghanistan won't change anything for Pakistan if she herself is not economically stable. There has to be a great incentive for common people of Afghanistan to even think about some sort of arrangement with Pakistan and what would be the counter offer? Pakistan has long way to go... and i am afraid this idea will only materialize here as a mere post in some lost thread on PDF.

Security.

Unless Pakistan completely secures Afghanistan, we can wait for the next foreign power to come settle there and promote terrorism against us. Already Iran has eyes on Afghanistan due to their loses there.

You are talking about living and re-living the past decade of TTP bomb blasts over and over again, forever.

Destiny comes to those who grab it by their hands, who change their environment.

Education, India, and economic stability need not take a back seat while we expand our homeland and enhance our position geopolitically.

We are not so different from Afghans as we have come to believe. The masses of Afghanistan can benefit from the peace and security Pakistan offers in the form of a state, education, infrastructure, and employment opportunities. Already some 3 million Afghans are living here, they will not magically dissappear.

We share the same mindset and the same religious ideology. I remember growing up in Pakistan during the 80s and 90s, I recall when Afghans were a part and parcel of Pakistani society and shared many of our same ideas.

We have to understand that not all of them are represented by the worst among them.

It will happen regardless what we think right now, certain things are kismat and qadr of Allah swt. The equilibrium will be established once more.

Afghanistan and Pakistan are one country, and have always been throughout history.

Durrani empire of Ahmad Shah Baba Abdali

There is a reason Allama Iqbal RA declared Afghanistan as the "Heart of Asia." We must not neglect it.

 

[Mohsin A]

Pakistan's biggest enemies are within!!! Clear the house out and major success will follow. The only way that will happen is if we have a Putin style president who prioritizes his nation first and foremost!

 

[Arsalan 345]

don't get disheartened. time to learn something from mistakes. look at india now.look at their economy. they have experts in satellite engineering. they have their own made in india program. pakistan must end corruption. you can't progress with corrupt people. we aren't sincere. we need to start made in pakistan program. make everything inside pakistan.
engines,fighter jets,submarines,better textile industries,chips,cars,electronic warfare,missiles and even satellites.we must make everything in our own country. china and turkey can assist but we must become sincere.forget kashmir for at least 5 years. we need better economy first and we need experts in each field.there is so much talent in pakistan. we can't survive with this defensive mindset with useless strategies.

First try to make everything in your country and ask india to cooperate in other fields specially medicine and satellite engineering.self sufficiency is necessary. if we make everything in pakistan,it will create more jobs and standard of living will become better.obviously all this can't happen without money.take loan.taking loan is not new. we take loans each year.forget about kashmir and afghanistan for 5 years. make peace with india because right now, we aren't in a good position and we know it.
Abrogation already happened.we did nothing.ground reality will remain same. try to understand the larger picture. we must make everything in pakistan.

 

[aliyusuf]

...
So the point is, Somewhere we went really wrong, Tides changed, If we had kept on going without getting involved in other’s conflicts in our own region, We could have had foreign military bases in Different Arab countries by now and we might have provided them Nuclear Umbrella.
...

It is my humble opinion that the advent of the Zia regime and it's prolonged tenure along with it's lopsidedly pro-American right-wing policies greatly contributed to the reversal of many of those favorable tides. Rampant corruption, introduction of addictive drugs, militant-ism in the society, decline of education standards, spread of politically motivated militant madressahs, demise of meritocracy in the society, sabotaging Karachi Steel Mills etc etc ... all started in his era.

Zia tenure's only redeeming feature is that we did not capitulate on our nuclear program.

Even Kashmir was put in the background during his regime.

But still, surprisingly ... he was not as bad as the subsequent multiple tenures of the PPP and PML governments.

So I think we can safely say that he ushered in the era of corruption and mediocrity in Pakistan.

 

[El Sidd]

Meanwhile local village officer just ruined all your plans with one stroke of a pencil.

Be like Jamali.

Apna zilla azaad kara lo that is enough