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us the former minister shaukat tareen said, we have to follow the model of US,CHINA and turkey..
privitizing 25% share is only viable solution.
imagine we had done so in 2008..today we could have saved over 500 billion ruppes..
thats equal to cost of bunji dam..!
same is for every insitution..

in fact today govt would have been earning from it through its shares as its doing from PTCL..!!
 
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PIA orders five Boeing 777s, option for five more

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WASHINGTON: US aircraft manufacturer Boeing announced Monday that Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has ordered five of its 777-300ER long-range passenger jets, with an option for five more.

The planes are "valued at nearly $1.5 billion at list prices," the US manufacturer said in a statement.

PIA "has been renewing its long-haul fleet to accommodate increased demand for air travel as well as to introduce new routes," Boeing said.

PIA managing director Nadeem Yousufzai lauded the 777-300ER's "excellent operating economics, long range capability and reliability."

Boeing said it had logged 200 net orders for 777s in 2011, by far the best year for the family of aircraft, in service since 1995. (AFP)

PIA orders five Boeing 777s, option for five more

FILE VIDEO

 
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us the former minister shaukat tareen said, we have to follow the model of US,CHINA and turkey..
privitizing 25% share is only viable solution.
imagine we had done so in 2008..today we could have saved over 500 billion ruppes..
thats equal to cost of bunji dam..!
same is for every insitution..

in fact today govt would have been earning from it through its shares as its doing from PTCL..!!


Completely agree. Had PPP not withdrawn reforms planned during Gen. Musharraf's tenure, PIA would have been some what profitable today and competitive with other airlines stealing the show such as Emirates, Qatar and Etihad. The plan was to get 7 A320s in addition to 777s bought at the time but was shelved post elections by PPP.

Nonetheless, the recent bid to revive Vision 2020 is a good step. Once things settle down and are in order a percentage of shares should be sold.
 
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$500m kickbacks feared in PIA 777 deal

24 February, 2012



ISLAMABAD: The controversial US$1.5 billion (Rs140 billion) PIA-Boeing deal has now become scandalous with the Transparency International Pakistan (TIP) smelling possible kickbacks of US$500 million (almost Rs46 billion) and the Public Procurement Regulatory Authority (PPRA) confirming that the PIA has gone for the purchase of five Boeing ER 777-300 without floating any tenders.

Following The News (a local newspaper) report on the controversial deal as published on Thursday; the National Accountability Bureau has also started looking into this deal but without any clear indication if it could dare touch the case for a fair probe.

On Thursday, the TIP approached the top managements of both the PIA and Boeing Company with all its reservations vis-a-vis this agreement, signed between the two only a few days back. Adil Gillani has told this correspondent that hehad sought the copies of the Evaluation Report and Contract Agreement.

He said the under the deal, each Boeing ES777-300 is to be purchased for an exorbitant price of US$300 million. This price of one aircraft, he explained, is 50% higher than the current market price.

Referring to a complaint the TIP received, Gillani said that it was reported that Saleem Sayani, the Deputy Managing Director of the PIA in a meeting held last week of January 2012, had informed about the PIA plans to procure five widebodied new Boeing ER777-300, at an estimated cost of around US$200 million each. Gillani says he does not know how the price shot up to US$300 million for each plane.

Quoting the complaint, he said even Saleem Sayani's proposal was vehemently opposed by Aziz Suharwardy, flight Engineers National Association (FENA), Capt Sohail Baloch, President Pakistan Airline Pilots Association (PALPA), Shaukat Jamshaid, President Society of Aircraft Engineers of Pakistan (SAEP), and Najeeb ur Rehman, President Aircraft Technologists Association of Pakistan (ATAP).

"If this is correct, then the exchequer is losing US$100 million per plane, which is US$500 million," Adil Gillani said. He added that the complainant has also reported that one Boeing ER777-300 was also sold in similar clandestine manner by Boeing to M/S TAAG Angola Airlines in June 2011, and the cost was US$256 million, almost US$44 million less than the price announced in the PIA-Boeing deal.

The TIP, in its letter, warned the PIA top management that in case the allegations are found to be true, this procurement is to be examined under Public Procurement Rules 2004, Rule No 2(f) "corrupt and fraudulent practices" which covers collusive practices among bidders (prior to or after bid submission) designed to establish bid prices at artificial, non-competitive levels and to deprive the procuring agencies of the benefits of free and open competition.

"This is to inform PIA and Boeing that TIP has confirmed from PIA and PPRA websites that this procurement of five new Boeing ER 777-300, (380-400 passenger seater) wide body long haul planes is/was never advertised on PIA and PPRA websites. The tender invited for narrow body 39 aircraft by PIA and opened on 23rd January 2012 was the following; "Pakistan International Airline (PIA) invites "sealed bids" from interested parties for the Dry Lease of same type of thirty nine (39) narrow body jet aircraft with seating capacity of around 140 passenger seats for ten (10) year lease period. PIA will prefer new aircraft."

When The News (a local newspaper) contacted PPRA authorities, they also confirmed that the PIA had never floated any tender, which under the rules is not only shared with PPRA but is also displayed at its website. On condition of not being named, a PPRA source said that it seems that the PIA had wrongly used an alternative method to avoid tendering process.

He explained that Rule 42C of the PPRA Rules do allow an alternate method of procurement without tenders. But such purchases are allowed only where the item required falls in the category of "proprietary items", which means the item required is of proprietary nature and is produced by only one company.

The PPRA source said that such an application of Rule 42C for the purchase of Boeing ER 777-300 does not make any sense because there are other companies in the world that build aircraft, including bigger planes like Airbus.

PIA spokesman Syed Sultan Hasan had denied the TIP's claim on Wednesday and insisted that the procurement of five new Boeing ER 777-300 worth US$1.5 billion were being purchased from Boeing company only after following proper tendering procedure and with the knowledge of the PPRA.

The spokesman had also claimed that the PPRA had vetted their case (contract), a fact that was categorically denied by PPRA. Meanwhile PIA has issued a detailed clarification saying Ansar Abbasi's story is not based on facts.

The PIA spokesman said the correspondent has mixed up the tender floated for acquisition of Narrow Body Aircraft (A) with the agreement with Boeing Co for Boeing 777 aircraft (B), where as the two cases have no link.

Giving out what the spokesman said were the facts, the clarification said: PIA Board has approved PIA's Fleet Plan 2020. For better economics of operation, PIA shall have three types of fleet:

1. B-777 family for operation on USA, Canada, UK, Europe and Saudi Routes of high density;

2. Narrow Body aircraft for operation on all routes to the East Asia, Gulf, Middle East, Regional and High Density Domestic Routes and

3. ATR family for operation on Low Density Domestic and Regional Routes.

"PIA plans to phase out its aged B-737 aircraft, the choice of selecting the Narrow Body Aircraft is open. PIA has not selected any particular aircraft as replacement. Following the PPRA Rules, PIA floated a tender on December 04, 2011, for offers of 39 Narrow Body aircraft to be delivered between 2012 and 2020, as per the schedule of deliveries given in the tender document. The document stated that "two stage two envelope method" shall be followed.

The technical and financial evaluation criteria were part of the tender document placed on PPRA and PIA websites. The advertisement was printed in two international and two Pakistani newspapers/magazines.

The document was very elaborate and the process was completely transparent.

The tenders were opened on 23rd January 2012 (49 days after placement of advertisement and uploading of tender on the websites). None of the proposals met PIA requirements. Financial proposals, therefore, were not even opened.

(B). Boeing 777 Aircraft: The decision to select Boeing 777 family was taken in 2002. PIA operates a fleet of nine 777 aircraft. PIA shall be disposing of five aged B-747 and 12 A-310 aircraft very soon. It needs replacement of capacity shortfall of Boeing 747 and A-310 on the long haul routes. Additional aircraft are also required to meet growing capacity requirements of future. The approved fleet plan, therefore, envisages induction of 7 additional wide body aircraft of Boeing 777 family up to 2020.

Why Boeing 777? PIA is operating B-777. Therefore, logically additional wide body aircraft have to be of the same family. Induction of any other type will be un-economical as additional training and additional spares inventory will increase the cost. Mixed fleet will not allow inter changeability of aircraft as well. PIA, therefore decided to induct aircraft of the same family i.e. Boeing 777.

Boeing made its last offer to PIA in October 2011. The Boeing B-777 aircraft are in demand and it is difficult to get slots from Boeing. PIA and Boeing Co were engaged in negotiations since Oct 2011. After negotiating the concessions and discounts and receiving confirmed offer for deliveries in March to November 2015, PIA decided to finalise the arrangements. MoU was concluded on 15th November 2011 during Dubai Air Show (before floating of tender for Narrow Body) and the agreement for five confirmed 777 and purchase rights for additional five was signed on 14th Feb 2012 at Islamabad.

PPRA Article 42 provides for "Alternate Methods of Procurements", and clause (c) sub-clause ii & iii, elaborate these exceptions as under: Direct Contracting: A procuring agency shall only engage in direct contracting if the following conditions exist, namely: (ii) Only one manufacturer or supplier exists for the required procurement:

Provided that procuring agencies shall specify the appropriate fora, which may authorize procurement of proprietary object after due diligence; and

(iii) Where a change of supplier would oblige the procuring agency to acquire material having different technical specifications or characteristics and would result in incompatibility or disproportionate technical difficulties in operation and maintenance:

Provided that contract or contracts do not exceed three years in duration."

Besides the above 2 conditions, there are five other conditions in this article. As the PPRA article stated CONDITIONS and not any of the conditions PIA sought clarification from PPRA on December 13, 2011. PPRA replied on December 20, 2011 that for invoking rule 42 (c) any one of the condition listed there under, from (i) to (vii), is required to be met.

After receiving the clarification, PIA decided to conclude agreement with Boeing through "Direct Contracting". The agreement was inked on 14th Feb 2012 and not on 21st Feb 2012, as mentioned in the press report.

The correspondent has mixed up the two cases and the date of signing of the agreement is also not correct. Ansar Abbasi adds: The report was based on the letter of Transparency International and The News (a local newspaper) stands by what it had reported.
 
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Who the F**K is giving PIA this kind of money?

Where the hell 1.5billion dollars came from?


Why are the tax payers being made to do this?

I HATE PIA and I HATE everyone!
 
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Pakistan should not purchase planes right now.. total purchase price is 8% of current forex reserve. This will bring pressure on PKR as there is big re-payment is schedule for IMF.
 
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Pakistan should not purchase planes right now.. total purchase price is 8% of current forex reserve. This will bring pressure on PKR as there is big re-payment is schedule for IMF.

so how will be pakistanis travel all over the world? its good deat pakistan have to move ahead with these 777s and waiting more 320 or 319s deal now for replace 737s

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------

Who the F**K is giving PIA this kind of money?

Where the hell 1.5billion dollars came from?


Why are the tax payers being made to do this?

I HATE PIA and I HATE everyone!

CONTROL your horses its our strategic asset can't we let it go drain for few looters .its bad time for every gov owned corporation but it will be stupid to kill them .
 
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Instead of direct investment government should do partnership with private player, give them rights to be a major international airlines in Pakistan and against it they have to invest certain amount for airport infrastructure. This way ppl will get good service and private companies will manage their finance. I am sure many foreign bank will give them loan if they get permission from Government.
 
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Instead of direct investment government should do partnership with private player, give them rights to be a major international airlines in Pakistan and against it they have to invest certain amount for airport infrastructure. This way ppl will get good service and private companies will manage their finance. I am sure many foreign bank will give them loan if they get permission from Government.

airports have nothing to do with PIA . they are under CAA and CAA is doing well at this time 64 air ports in pakistan are working and 4 are under construction . in fact today open a tender of new passenger bridges for karachi multan and new islamabad air port . matter of PIA is concerned but its not fun to keep 180mn public on mercy of public sector air lines for loot them .PIA will remain public property and work no matter how much hard time come .
 
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@ nothing yeah private deals so more kickbacks and more loot.....what can you expect from this lot....

wrt PIA ----nothing cna beat their new "toilet class"---grrr-ate ppl to fly with.....
 
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@ nothing yeah private deals so more kickbacks and more loot.....what can you expect from this lot....

wrt PIA ----nothing cna beat their new "toilet class"---grrr-ate ppl to fly with.....

I am agree with you and Imran bhai, but my only point is why to bring pressure on Forex right now... if PKR will lose value it will bump up inflation and with increasing oil prices national currency should strong to keep inflation and Forex in check.
I agree that national carrier is asset and it should be in good shape, but timing is wrong. I used to respect PIA more than Air India, back in 90's I read article in local Gujarati paper in India where they mentioned how PIA used retired plane's part to keep others running and people use to come to Karachi airport to welcome new planes in PIA.
There has to be way out to bring back institute with such gr8 past into life.
 
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$500m kickbacks feared in PIA 777 deal

This report is completely flawed and incorrect. The current market price of Boeing 777-300 ER (extended range) is 298.3 million USD not HALF of 300 mil as being proclaimed. As soon as I read this is coming from Ansar Abbasi and The News I knew something was made up. The decision to go with 777-300ER was probably a right one. I don't know why they didn't opt for 787. However, the likely reason may have been that 787 has a huge production list for orders by other airlines and may have delayed PIA's plan to modernize it's fleet by 2020. Another reason may have been seating capacity as the 787-8 only accommodates 210 passengers where as 777-300ER is 393. Airbus or any new type would have required additional training and etc.

298.3 x 5 = 1491.5 million USD.

Boeing: Commercial Airplanes -- Jet Prices Home

Who the F**K is giving PIA this kind of money?

Where the hell 1.5billion dollars came from?


Why are the tax payers being made to do this?

I HATE PIA and I HATE everyone!


Hold your horses, nothing is known as of yet how they will finance this. Judging by the past, the deal is likely to be financed by an aircraft leasing company such as ALAFCO (they were supposed to finance A320s) or by payment over the next decade till 2020.
 
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can someone change the name of the thread to 'Pakistani Aviation'? people can post updates about private airlines too.
 
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even if there are kickbacks (i dont believe it though)
this is probably the best decision PIA made in years!!!
777-300ER is the most fuel efficient aircraft out there right now...

edit

there are no kickbacks, the figures that Boeing's official website gives is $298.3 million!

help yourself

Boeing: Commercial Airplanes -- Jet Prices Home
 
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so how will be pakistanis travel all over the world? its good deat pakistan have to move ahead with these 777s and waiting more 320 or 319s deal now for replace 737s

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------



CONTROL your horses its our strategic asset can't we let it go drain for few looters .its bad time for every gov owned corporation but it will be stupid to kill them .

I personally think that now its time to kill all of them, back in 2006 when steel mill was sold for the half of its price all of us were full of anger now the same steel mill has a loss of 110bn PKR in last 5 years and extra 7000 political workers have got jobs.
If at that time still mill had been sold,Nation would have those 110 bn and no one knows how much loss will we suffer in coming years.

Even the most less corrupt countries do not operate corporations,we have heaps of corruption and we do.
 
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