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Pakistan can't afford to have bullet trains: Railway minister

I see Bullet trains more like technology advancement rather merely a transportation. Once you have mastered bullet trains smoothly it's obvious that many techniques will be involved to enhance performance of regular trains and tracks.

As far as India is concerned our average speed is just above 60 km/hr. High speed trains like Talgo, India's own Push and Pull engines are been tested to run on regular tracks. To clock up on 140km speed you need to straighten the curves for sustainable high speed. Works on underway.

Our domestic flight sector is a booming sector even when we don't have lots suburban domestic airports. We have planned to expand to all smaller cities operational with much smaller aircrafts because the demand is there. Super fast bullet trains offers more comfort with relaxed journey at low prices compared with domestic airlines. Trains price are constant you see. Small increase if you book a day before on Takal ticket. If 650 is a cost from Mumbai to Chennai (with tax) on thakal it will be 800 rupees. But in in domestic flights price vary on demand and days. If same Mumbai to chennai it cost me around 5500-7000 which may go up to 14-15k if I book hours before. So these are the people who will use bullet trains happily.

Same concerns about metros few years ago. But it's been used by all to cut through traffic. Today we have very vast parts of cities inter connected with metros in many states of India. So by 2020-2022 if Bullets trains are operational then I don't see any problem with demand. It will keep growing like metros as many state's politicians want to bring them to their states for votes.
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ISLAMABAD: Pakistan cannot have bullet trains, even though this was one of the ruling party’s election promises, Khawaja Saad Rafique told the National Assembly on Tuesday.

“When we asked the Chinese about it, they laughed at us. We should consider the 160kmph train under CPEC as a bullet train. We can’t afford an actual bullet train, there’s no market for it,” the railway minister said.

Admitting that their party had faced a lot of criticism over not launching the project, he said that the country didn’t have enough money to build one. “Even if we do, we don’t have such a big range of upper and middle class passengers who will buy tickets.”

In an articulate speech on the floor of the house, Mr Rafique gave members a comprehensive overview of the performance of his department and insisted that he was doing as much as possible to clean up the department and turn it into a profit-making entity.

Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan are not prepared to turn over railway land to the Pakistan Railways, preventing the department from using them to generate more revenue, he told the house.

Minister tells NA Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan refusing to turn over railway land
“The biggest problem with railway lands across the country is that they are owned by the provincial governments while being under the possession of Pakistan Railways. The provinces are not prepared to turn over these lands to us, despite a Supreme Court order to do so,” he said.

“There isn’t a chief minister I haven’t pleaded with over the past three-and-a-half years. Except Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, which turned over 90pc of such lands to us, the other provinces have not handed us a single marla.”

“How can we commercially exploit land whose title doesn’t belong to us?” he asked.

However, he clarified that land that was occupied by traditional dwellers or slum residents would not be touched. “How can we displace those people; where will they go?” he said, while vowing to act strictly against those who used railway land for commercial purposes.

He claimed 1,017 acres of land had been retrieved from encroachments during his tenure.

Although the minister was supposed to respond to a motion regarding the “non-utilisation of lands of Railways in the country”, he covered nearly all aspects of his department in his detailed remarks.

Narrating his experience of negotiating with the Chinese over projects related to the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, the minister said that things were not as rosy as they appeared to be.

“We will not buy a pen worth Rs2 for Rs10, not while I am heading this department,” he said, explaining that the Asian Development Bank (ADB) had been asked to fund the Lahore-Peshawar section.

“Our Chinese friends have expressed their displeasure, but we’ve made it clear that we have the discretion. They should limit themselves to the Karachi-Lahore track, we will dualise the [up-country] tracks with the ADB,” he said.

Accusing previous administrations of mismanaging Pakistan Railways’ affairs, he detailed all the ills of the department he inherited — from adulterated and substandard food in dining cars to the practice of removing original parts from locomotives or cannibalising carriages to fix damaged bogies.

Although his predecessor Ghulam Ahmad Bilour was in the house when Mr Rafique began his remarks, the ANP member left the assembly once the minister began to take aim at his track-record.

Talking about the Karachi circular railway, he said that the project was wrongly distributed between the various governments, given that the bulk of the financial burden had been placed on the federal government. “We’re having problems running a national railway network; how can you expect us to build intra-city systems? Across the world, metros and local trains are run by independent authorities.

“Yes, state institutions must operate with a certain amount of losses, but it must break even.”

He also lamented that all trains are repaired manually. “We are looking to move towards greater automation of this process, which will help curtail human error and accidental deaths.”

Source:- http://www.dawn.com/news/1299538/pakistan-cant-afford-bullet-trains

@war&peace @Doordie @GreenFalcon

Well Duhhhhhhhhhh!!! As long as we have Finance minister like isshaaq daar, we can't afford to buy (nothing comes to mind) shit.
 
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Well, Compared to japan.
Which is a thriving economy 24/7.
Most people who mostly use them are business related.
Along with that, their fare is also quite reasonable given their per capita $$$.
Usually around 11k-14k yens.

But thats not the only thing, there needs to be a demand for it to be that much,
Currently, people just use planes to do their trips instead of trains if they want it fast enough.

Im pretty sure india is far away from bullet trains.

Given that even US doesnt have the need for it yet.
And only 1-2 countries in europe have HSR railway closest to bullet.
so eh...
In Europe bullet trains are simply waste of money. Countries are so small in Europe we simply get from point A to point B with regular Pendolinos (~220km/h) fast enough.
 
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There must be either a big misunderstanding or misinterpretation. It just didn't not sound Chinese at all!

We don't laugh at our own brother in need, besides, China needs Pakistan as much as Pakistan needs China in this CPEC initiative.
Totally agree. Even such idea was proposed (which is fair enough), I dont think anyone would laughed after all as it is a legitimate question.

there is no doubt that Pakistan will have HSR built eventually given its large population and high density. however, it would not be optimal to go straight to HSR at this stage because a semi fast rail which can handle both personnel and cargo in a highly economical way will bring the maximal benefit to the society at this point of the development.
 
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It's lie . They're hiding money .
A minister was caught red handed with his tank full of billions and bilious dollars and they don't have money when it comes to develop the poor nation .

Corrupt corrupt corrupt .. qabar me ye pese saanp k jese galy me hongae .
 
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ISLAMABAD: Pakistan cannot have bullet trains, even though this was one of the ruling party’s election promises, Khawaja Saad Rafique told the National Assembly on Tuesday.

“When we asked the Chinese about it, they laughed at us. We should consider the 160kmph train under CPEC as a bullet train. We can’t afford an actual bullet train, there’s no market for it,” the railway minister said.

Admitting that their party had faced a lot of criticism over not launching the project, he said that the country didn’t have enough money to build one. “Even if we do, we don’t have such a big range of upper and middle class passengers who will buy tickets.”

In an articulate speech on the floor of the house, Mr Rafique gave members a comprehensive overview of the performance of his department and insisted that he was doing as much as possible to clean up the department and turn it into a profit-making entity.

Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan are not prepared to turn over railway land to the Pakistan Railways, preventing the department from using them to generate more revenue, he told the house.

Minister tells NA Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan refusing to turn over railway land
“The biggest problem with railway lands across the country is that they are owned by the provincial governments while being under the possession of Pakistan Railways. The provinces are not prepared to turn over these lands to us, despite a Supreme Court order to do so,” he said.

“There isn’t a chief minister I haven’t pleaded with over the past three-and-a-half years. Except Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, which turned over 90pc of such lands to us, the other provinces have not handed us a single marla.”

“How can we commercially exploit land whose title doesn’t belong to us?” he asked.

However, he clarified that land that was occupied by traditional dwellers or slum residents would not be touched. “How can we displace those people; where will they go?” he said, while vowing to act strictly against those who used railway land for commercial purposes.

He claimed 1,017 acres of land had been retrieved from encroachments during his tenure.

Although the minister was supposed to respond to a motion regarding the “non-utilisation of lands of Railways in the country”, he covered nearly all aspects of his department in his detailed remarks.

Narrating his experience of negotiating with the Chinese over projects related to the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, the minister said that things were not as rosy as they appeared to be.

“We will not buy a pen worth Rs2 for Rs10, not while I am heading this department,” he said, explaining that the Asian Development Bank (ADB) had been asked to fund the Lahore-Peshawar section.

“Our Chinese friends have expressed their displeasure, but we’ve made it clear that we have the discretion. They should limit themselves to the Karachi-Lahore track, we will dualise the [up-country] tracks with the ADB,” he said.

Accusing previous administrations of mismanaging Pakistan Railways’ affairs, he detailed all the ills of the department he inherited — from adulterated and substandard food in dining cars to the practice of removing original parts from locomotives or cannibalising carriages to fix damaged bogies.

Although his predecessor Ghulam Ahmad Bilour was in the house when Mr Rafique began his remarks, the ANP member left the assembly once the minister began to take aim at his track-record.

Talking about the Karachi circular railway, he said that the project was wrongly distributed between the various governments, given that the bulk of the financial burden had been placed on the federal government. “We’re having problems running a national railway network; how can you expect us to build intra-city systems? Across the world, metros and local trains are run by independent authorities.

“Yes, state institutions must operate with a certain amount of losses, but it must break even.”

He also lamented that all trains are repaired manually. “We are looking to move towards greater automation of this process, which will help curtail human error and accidental deaths.”

Source:- http://www.dawn.com/news/1299538/pakistan-cant-afford-bullet-trains

@war&peace @Doordie @GreenFalcon
Getting a Chinese discounted Bullet Train in Sweden turned out to cost 35-40 B$.
That is $4k per capita !!!!
They are not cheap.
 
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Getting a Chinese discounted Bullet Train in Sweden turned out to cost 35-40 B$.
That is $4k per capita !!!!
They are not cheap.

If you are referring to the Stockholm to Gothenburg and Malmö project, the 2015 offer made by China Railway Construction was $17.1b, which was significantly lower than Swedish Transport Administration's estimate at $20.1b. Are you talking about another project?

No doubt HSR is not cheap and that is why it is not common even in Europe.
 
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Well yes we can't India is making a 550 Km track worth $15 Billion

Under CPEC the ML-1 will be Upgraded after that trains can run up to 160 km/h
 
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In Europe bullet trains are simply waste of money. Countries are so small in Europe we simply get from point A to point B with regular Pendolinos (~220km/h) fast enough.

Countries with more populations (higher density ) like Deutschland, Francaise, Italia need bullet trains much more than the area locating in icy northern peninsula.
 
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