Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[waz]

These all are screwed up information.

For example.
T90M is the most advance T90 version and is recently developed for Russian forces only. It's not available for export. However it's export version, called T90MS is meant for export which India is eyeing in large numbers (464 units).

Indian T90 fleet comprise of T90S version only, with mixed fleet of Russian produced and domestically produced tanks. Slight differences exist between different batches, but overall they all belong to T90S cetagory.

Similar misconception exist about Arjun fleet. There are numerous sources out there which claim India operate around 248 Arjun tanks. But in reality it operate 124 Arjun Mk1 tank and is yet to place order for 124 Arjun Mk2 tanks. Some clever/idiot added up the numbers of Arjun which exist and the numbers of Arjun which are planned, and created the confusion.

Same is problem with T90 numbers data. As far as I remember, by mid 2016, there were around 950 T90 tanks in Indian arsenal, and target was 1650 tanks in total. Now there are two possibilities

1: India has produced 1200 T90S and has placed order for 464 T90MS totalling 1650+ T90S/MS tanks in Indian arsenal in future.

2: India has achieved the production target of 1650 T90 tanks by secretly producing T90S tanks. It now has placed order for 464 T90MS which once delivered will reach the total of 2100+ T90 tanks in total.

The first case is more believable

Yes that's the case, the bulk evidence points to 1,500 or so T-90's, even with the MS arriving. The 2,000 plus total has no backlog of signed and delivered orders to justify that number.

 

[ZY-CN-CA]

China generally sells weapons to Pakistan at production cost, rather than make a profit.

yesok,....I just think that maybe thai Army fan unhappy..

 

[Vapour]

don't add up with 66 tank regiments considering each has 45 tanks + a squadron of reserve.

This is going off reading old posts on here, most likely not even within this thread, but aren't Indian tank regiments larger, having around 60 tanks per regiment?

That would equate to around 4K tanks.

 

[PanzerKiel]

This is going off reading old posts on here, most likely not even within this thread, but aren't Indian tank regiments larger, having around 60 tanks per regiment?

That would equate to around 4K tanks.

45 tanks per Regiment

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

yesok,....I just think that maybe thai Army fan unhappy..

The Thai army and its fans have no grounds whatsoever to be unhappy. Thailand is "hedging" between China and the US, it's trying to eat at every table, so it pays full freight for Chinese military kit. Pakistan is a strategic ally and firmly in China's camp, so it gets the equipment at friendship prices.

 

[Ark_Angel]

Your predication came true Within hours. As if you attended todya VT-4 MBT demonstration. Any update on AH-1Z vipers?

Lets give credit where it is due who broke the news of VT-4 finally coming to Pakistan. @PanzerKiel and @Ark_Angel after chinese media outlet confirmed VT-4 for unknown customer

Thank you for the mention @Bratva. There were a lot of users here who typical of the local mentality negate you, wear you down in endless discussions as to prove that they know more than the other and pull him down, including think tanks and professionals which is saddening actually. There fore I'll request the mods again to redefine the criteria of this forum regarding the allotment of titles of Think Tanks, Professionals, and scrutinise again in order to improve the credibility. I think there was a Chinese member here constantly being negated by a think tank about the news of VT-4s being delivered for Pakistan such behaviours shouldn't be the acceptable norm here and must be taken to task. Eventually when the Tanks have been delivered All tom dick and harry Think tank, professional etc has jumped on the band wagon *I told/knew/now know more/ first syndrome*. Rules must be amended and scrutiny must be rigid and unforgiving. I believe it wasn't me but The Beast(Some Chinese member-I couldn't scroll the April chat) who brought the news first. Thanks to him the real discussion started while our local desis were constantly negating him.
Now coming over the real deal:
VT-4s are alive and kicking.
Apologies for the colour scheme I couldn't look at the pictures more clearly.
As far as Zulus are concerned:
Negotiations under way for a way forward. Rest can't tell much. I had mentioned about 2 landing but that needs to be corrected-Those 2 birds were something else. Not Zulus.
As far as the realisation of Armed Forces DevPlan 2030 goes: Lots of Goodies on the way. I can spill the beans with no liabilities, but then you'll complain of wastage of Bandwith. But eventually you'll be seeing that stuff in operational roles and be surprised just like VT-4s surprised you all.
Have a great day all.

 

[Vapour]

45 tanks per Regiment

Have done some digging, was from this @Signalian post - specifically the following:

"IA formations are larger than PA counterparts.

PA Armour regiment, 44 MBT. IA Armour regiment, 59 MBT.

PA Armour Div, 5 Armour regiments. IA Armour Div, 7 Armour regiments (except 33rd Armoured Div)."

Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

Bs article by this self proclaimed expert. Mostly info gathered from Wikipedia and some Google books. this flame bait trick has become quite outdated . Try harder ---

defence.pk

 

[PanzerKiel]

Have done some digging, was from this @Signalian post - specifically the following:

"IA formations are larger than PA counterparts.

PA Armour regiment, 44 MBT. IA Armour regiment, 59 MBT.

PA Armour Div, 5 Armour regiments. IA Armour Div, 7 Armour regiments (except 33rd Armoured Div)."

Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

Bs article by this self proclaimed expert. Mostly info gathered from Wikipedia and some Google books. this flame bait trick has become quite outdated . Try harder ---

defence.pk

Alot has changed dear.

Rest, it's entirely your call in the end.

 

[Beast]

Thank you for the mention @Bratva. There were a lot of users here who typical of the local mentality negate you, wear you down in endless discussions as to prove that they know more than the other and pull him down, including think tanks and professionals which is saddening actually. There fore I'll request the mods again to redefine the criteria of this forum regarding the allotment of titles of Think Tanks, Professionals, and scrutinise again in order to improve the credibility. I think there was a Chinese member here constantly being negated by a think tank about the news of VT-4s being delivered for Pakistan such behaviours shouldn't be the acceptable norm here and must be taken to task. Eventually when the Tanks have been delivered All tom dick and harry Think tank, professional etc has jumped on the band wagon *I told/knew/now know more/ first syndrome*. Rules must be amended and scrutiny must be rigid and unforgiving. I believe it wasn't me but The Beast(Some Chinese member-I couldn't scroll the April chat) who brought the news first. Thanks to him the real discussion started while our local desis were constantly negating him.
Now coming over the real deal:
VT-4s are alive and kicking.
Apologies for the colour scheme I couldn't look at the pictures more clearly.
As far as Zulus are concerned:
Negotiations under way for a way forward. Rest can't tell much. I had mentioned about 2 landing but that needs to be corrected-Those 2 birds were something else. Not Zulus.
As far as the realisation of Armed Forces DevPlan 2030 goes: Lots of Goodies on the way. I can spill the beans with no liabilities, but then you'll complain of wastage of Bandwith. But eventually you'll be seeing that stuff in operational roles and be surprised just like VT-4s surprised you all.
Have a great day all.

Thanks for mention of me. We Chinese side has very reliable source for tank or armour development due to first hand news from Chinese website of engineer working at Norinco or documentary interview with chief engineer for the tank or armour. If their words cannot be trusted then I do not know what to say.

Unlike some source who claimed from bias , affection for western products or twitter which are nothing but a joke!

We based our judgement based on merit rather than bias. If Chinese product is no good , it will be no good ( Do take in cost consideration). But VT-4 is the top of line tank product offer by China. It's price per unit is even much higher than Russia T-90. Just the auto transmission integrated power pack will cost a fortune alone. It is state of art. The price unit for PA is very reasonable.

 

[khansaheeb]

Pakistan should stop getting t-72 mods, we should find a way to make more affordable leopard class tanks; something like the Turkish Altay but slightly smaller and more affordable.

We need to start making drone tanks or just drones. Do we really need tanks in the modern battlefield?

 

[Syed1.]

We need to start making drone tanks or just drones. Do we really need tanks in the modern battlefield?

How about tanks that could deploy drones for longer range sight and/or second/third line of attack. The tank becomes a sort of a mother ship that can engage targets on ground or aerialy


Future is definitely heading way in terms of multi-function transformable vehicles.

 

[mingle]

Thank you for the mention @Bratva. There were a lot of users here who typical of the local mentality negate you, wear you down in endless discussions as to prove that they know more than the other and pull him down, including think tanks and professionals which is saddening actually. There fore I'll request the mods again to redefine the criteria of this forum regarding the allotment of titles of Think Tanks, Professionals, and scrutinise again in order to improve the credibility. I think there was a Chinese member here constantly being negated by a think tank about the news of VT-4s being delivered for Pakistan such behaviours shouldn't be the acceptable norm here and must be taken to task. Eventually when the Tanks have been delivered All tom dick and harry Think tank, professional etc has jumped on the band wagon *I told/knew/now know more/ first syndrome*. Rules must be amended and scrutiny must be rigid and unforgiving. I believe it wasn't me but The Beast(Some Chinese member-I couldn't scroll the April chat) who brought the news first. Thanks to him the real discussion started while our local desis were constantly negating him.
Now coming over the real deal:
VT-4s are alive and kicking.
Apologies for the colour scheme I couldn't look at the pictures more clearly.
As far as Zulus are concerned:
Negotiations under way for a way forward. Rest can't tell much. I had mentioned about 2 landing but that needs to be corrected-Those 2 birds were something else. Not Zulus.
As far as the realisation of Armed Forces DevPlan 2030 goes: Lots of Goodies on the way. I can spill the beans with no liabilities, but then you'll complain of wastage of Bandwith. But eventually you'll be seeing that stuff in operational roles and be surprised just like VT-4s surprised you all.
Have a great day all.

Spil the beans and let us chew you won't be liable more interested goodies from west as French were in town. Give this forum some life

 

[Signalian]

Have done some digging, was from this @Signalian post - specifically the following:

"IA formations are larger than PA counterparts.

PA Armour regiment, 44 MBT. IA Armour regiment, 59 MBT.

PA Armour Div, 5 Armour regiments. IA Armour Div, 7 Armour regiments (except 33rd Armoured Div)."

Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

Bs article by this self proclaimed expert. Mostly info gathered from Wikipedia and some Google books. this flame bait trick has become quite outdated . Try harder ---

defence.pk

Go with what PK is saying, he is more up to date than me.

 

[Figaro]

though intelligence failure but deadly consequences.. on response to few Soviets bombers, US made thousands to counter them

Bomber gap - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Imagine what type of equipment could be procured instead of using them for thousands of bombers had US gotten the intelligence right ... everyone knows US intelligence of foreign adversary technology is inconsistent to say the least. The Mig 25 analysis is a prime example.

 

[Raja Porus]

Not a good assumption

Although we might have a tip of spear but i am pretty sure in a prolonged conflict IAF will able to dominate the skies..and it wont be pretty for army

IAF IN together field over 600 aicrafts twice that of PAF ..

How about the six day war where israelis completely decimated the arab air force which was larger than hers