Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Beast]

Ok, if we order Chines, till when they will be able to deliver us first Helicopter? Now you will add to my knowledge.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ai...s-z-10me-showcased-increased-capabilities?amp

Anytime... Just need PA signature to ink the deal and money paid. It can be delivered even in few months for first helo unless addition modification required.

Isn’t Z-10ME on par with ATAK?

Do take note, Z-10ME is a 6tons helo vs T-129 which is 3.6tons under the category of light attack helo. The heavy means better armour and protected.

 

[LKJ86]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2018-11-13/chinas-z-10me-showcased-increased-capabilities?amp

Anytime... Just need PA signature to ink the deal and money paid. It can be delivered even in few months for first helo unless addition modification required.


Do take note, Z-10ME is a 6tons helo vs T-129 which is 3.6tons under the category of light attack helo. The heavy means better armour and protected.

Z-10ME via @Hodor

 

[Ra's al Ghul]

can someone plz tell, if the deal is cancelled or its postponed ? cant go through all 200 pages.
and just a noob question, if they have engine issue from US, cant they buy from some friendly eruropean countries like, Italy or sweden or Germany etc .

 

[Beast]

can someone plz tell, if the deal is cancelled or its postponed ? cant go through all 200 pages.
and just a noob question, if they have engine issue from US, cant they buy from some friendly eruropean countries like, Italy or sweden or Germany etc .

Of cos not, to you cannot expect to swap an engine and expect it to work safely in short time. It need extensive testing to verify it totally pass all requirement before being accepted. Unless u do not care for the safely of pilot.

Z-10ME via @Hodor
View attachment 602615 View attachment 602616

Do take note there are a total of 4 missile rack install which allows a total of 16 heavy ATGM to be install for Z-10ME.

 

[Ra's al Ghul]

Of cos not, to you cannot expect to swap an engine and expect it to work safely in short time. It need extensive testing to verify it totally pass all requirement before being accepted. Unless u so not care for the safely of pilot.


Do take note there are a total of 4 missile rack install which allows a total of 16 heavy ATGM to be install for Z-10ME.

thanks for the reply bro..
i think we should forget this deal and go for the Chinese helos , becoz of the US ..

 

[Beast]

thanks for the reply bro..
i think we should forget this deal and go for the Chinese helos , becoz of the US ..

Never trust US or those military hardware with critical US parts. It's a blessing PAF go for the JF-17.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

thanks for the reply bro..
i think we should forget this deal and go for the Chinese helos , becoz of the US ..

Hypothetically speaking for "brain storming" purposes!!! Say, you're a junior officer in the Lahore sector during '65 war. Only a couple of battalions could be arranged against the sudden, unexpected and overwhelming Indian attack at the division level with armored and artillery!! You've found that your company commander has lost his leg, and the neighboring one his life!!! What you're gonna do???? Turkey will fight on with whatever she can arrange....

By the by, all aero engine programs are run by a single parent organization. Turbo-props, to be used in all sorts of UAVs, are already being integrated. As for Turbo-shafts, initial results have exceeded the specs of the current engine being used in ATAKs. Within this year it'll be integrated with Gokbey, the utility chopper. The industrial level engineering work is all about linear progression - one correct step after another building up a robust and reliable foundation....

 

[Gryphon]

Why are we even discussing Turkish T129 engine problems?
We paid to get actual mission ready machines and see them flying in our colors by now
Instead what we go is millions of dollars of worth of possibilities
We'll develop this
We'll develop that
If they can't deliver the product on the said date scrap the deal and go for Chinese attack helos

Our Pilots are flying 50 years old machines
Risking their lives everyday & those on the ground
The operational readiness of the fleet is low
And we're discussing if the Turks have an actual engine for the damn chopper or not

Tbh, this Turkish mantra of 'we'll develop this and develop that' sucks but you have to understand that an inked contract can't be scrapped overnight.

There are clauses dealing with different possibilities, and the people at PAA believe the US approval may still come. Keep in mind that PAA signed for ATAK with LHTEC CTS800-4A engines and not the under-development Turkish engine.

Turkish officials saying Pak can get indigenous are only saving for other export prospects.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Tbh, this Turkish mantra of 'we'll develop this and develop that' sucks but you have to understand that an inked contract can't be scrapped overnight.

There are clauses dealing with different possibilities, and the people at PAA believe the US approval may still come. Keep in mind that PAA signed for ATAK with LHTEC CTS800-4A engines and not the under-development Turkish engine.

Turkish officials saying Pak can get indigenous are only saving for other export prospects.

So have we paid?

 

[python-000]

Never trust US or those military hardware with critical US parts. It's a blessing PAF go for the JF-17.

what is the status of Z10ME...

 

[fatman17]

Available

what is the status of Z10ME...

 

[Bratva]

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...-for-delivery-of-turkey-military-helicopters/

As US blocks deal, Pakistan extends deadline for delivery of Turkey military helicopters

anuary 15, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Published in: Asia & Americas, Europe & Russia, News, Pakistan, Turkey, US

A Turkish military helicopter on 8 September 2019 [Emin Sansar/Anadolu Agency]

January 15, 2020 at 4:04 pm

The Pakistan Army extended the deadline for Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) to deliver the T129 attack helicopter, Anadolu Agency reported.

Since Turkey agreed to purchase the Russian S-400 air defence system leading to heightened tensions with the US which called on Ankara to walk away from the arms deal. Washington also threatened not to sell F-35 fighter jets to Turkey if it continued to receive weapons from Russia.

The political wrangling may jeopardize the $1.5 billion helicopter deal between Turkey and Pakistan with the US said to be blocking the third-party delivery of those engines.

However, President of Turkey’s Defence Industries (SSB), Dr. Ismail Demir, said last week that both Pakistan and Turkey are working to secure the exports, with Islamabad giving Ankara one year to resolve the problem.

 

[Kabotar]

Lol!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1224740780620673026

 

[MastanKhan]

Tbh, this Turkish mantra of 'we'll develop this and develop that' sucks but you have to understand that an inked contract can't be scrapped overnight.

There are clauses dealing with different possibilities, and the people at PAA believe the US approval may still come. Keep in mind that PAA signed for ATAK with LHTEC CTS800-4A engines and not the under-development Turkish engine.

Turkish officials saying Pak can get indigenous are only saving for other export prospects.

Hi

it can be scrapped very easily. “ dont have parts to complete the helicopter”

cant deliver it.

if pak wants the deal cancelled there would be no issues.

the seller wants to establish gd faith and it would show bad faith to future buyers

 

[Signalian]

Yeah the ATAK was program was so much clearer in my mind until TAI yhrew in the T629. So will the heavy ATAK be able to hold it's own in the Apache, Mi28, Eurocopter Tiger class of attack helos since India is getting Apaches?

If a gunship is required for Anti-Tank role, then its probably convenient to deploy an Aviation regiment of UAV/UCAV with every Corps HQ. This Regiment could have two squadrons (Fixed wing and Rotary) of UAVs for recon,surveillance, delivery of ammo/medicines/supplies, communication relays, Electronic Warfare, forward aerial observers for artillery etc. The third squadron can be a UCAV squadron armed with ATGMs to attack enemy armor formations, artillery, Air Defense and Radars, field command centers, ammo and fuel supplies, bridges, bunkers, tunnels etc.

A shot down UAV/UCAV will not cause any friendly human losses of pilots, no issue of POWs. If UAV/UCAV are locally built, they can be replaced easily than the loss of Gunship or aircraft. Enemy may celebrate victory of downing 50 UAV/UCAV, but at the end of the day, loss of UAV/UCAV is more of financial loss, its not a psychological loss of losing personnel to an enemy neither counted as the downing of the gunships/aircrafts for which records are kept and celebrated. No basic liability during the course of war.

TS 1400 turboshaft engine development has started in 2013, unofficailly. when the project get matured agreement signed between TEI and SSM in 2017.

Any Russian Gunship engine that can help ATAK T-129 reach the heights ? Can Russian engines get evaluated by TAI ? Would new Turkish engine be comparable or better than Russian Engine?

JF-17 uses Russian engines, so does Mi-17 and Mi-35.

Apparently, ATAK performed much better than Z-10 in hot/humid environments and also high altitudes. Z-10ME is an improved version but I don't know if PA did performance tests on it.

IMO high altitude Ops is a major reason for procuring both T-129 and AH-1Z

thanks for the reply bro..
i think we should forget this deal and go for the Chinese helos , becoz of the US ..

I think Pakistan knows that Z-10 is available and Chinese will sell if required by PAA since Chinese do make improvements as per Pakistan's requirements, therefore exploring other options since better options are also available.