Pakistan Army | News and Discussions

[Xeric]

Dont tell me ur over 30 bruh! ... plus its a good source for entertainment n info..

Dont worry, i aint telling you anything

 

[Liquidmetal]

Is it me but both the arty, tanks seem very old and outdated. Also this did not fill me with confidence as the army seemed to be lacking leadership and a plan. Where are the drones so that you can spot the crazies and can direct fire at them rather than trying to figure out what is going on. And these men have been sent into the mountains where the crazies can sit on the ridges and fire at them into their pick-ups, no protection and everytime there is firing they have to get out and hide... poor skills.

These units should have hand launched drones that feed intel from the air so they know what is happening from the heights rather than run around like headless chickens trying to figure out what is what and where and how?

Come on Pak army you need to do better than this! No wonder the terrorists are so confident we are hardly touching them.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Pakistam Army Photos: PAK ARMY

 

[Armstrong]

Nukie, sometimes your querries are funny.

Anywaz, there isnt any real need for a BP inside a tank, but then artillery and other arms have been performing infantry roles in those areas a times. Also, as there isnt any real demarcation among officers during sub-conventional environment like the one found in COIN, so roles keep on shifting and you never know when you are out of the tank and pulling out wounded men out of an ambush - that's what COIN/LIC is all about.

And seriously, what do you expect me to say regarding if arty guys wear BPs and whether is it a choice or order?

A question - Has the training, experience & drilling accrued to the Pakistani Army due to COIN/LIC Operations all over the country made it a better Army in the conventional sense ? Which is to say would you say there is (i) none (ii) some or (ii) significant carry over from what you learn fighting a Non-Conventional war to the skill-set needed to fight a conventional war ?

Thank You much obliged !

Ummhhh @DESERT FIGHTER @nuclearpak @TaimiKhan @fatman17 - I'd appreciate it if you guys pitch in as well !

 

[fatman17]

Is it me but both the arty, tanks seem very old and outdated. Also this did not fill me with confidence as the army seemed to be lacking leadership and a plan. Where are the drones so that you can spot the crazies and can direct fire at them rather than trying to figure out what is going on. And these men have been sent into the mountains where the crazies can sit on the ridges and fire at them into their pick-ups, no protection and everytime there is firing they have to get out and hide... poor skills.

These units should have hand launched drones that feed intel from the air so they know what is happening from the heights rather than run around like headless chickens trying to figure out what is what and where and how?

Come on Pak army you need to do better than this! No wonder the terrorists are so confident we are hardly touching them.

mostly the Al-Zarrar tanks are being used in the FATA. they are doing an adequate job as far as some feedback i have got. they remain on the roads / crossings to control / deter the militants from cutting of the army's LOC's.

 

[fatman17]

A question - Has the training, experience & drilling accrued to the Pakistani Army due to COIN/LIC Operations all over the country made it a better Army in the conventional sense ? Which is to say would you say there is (i) none (ii) some or (ii) significant carry over from what you learn fighting a Non-Conventional war to the skill-set needed to fight a conventional war ?

Thank You much obliged !

Ummhhh @DESERT FIGHTER @nuclearpak @TaimiKhan @fatman17 - I'd appreciate it if you guys pitch in as well !

pl dont quote my figures but about 10-15 wings of the FC were upgraded in terms of equipment / training for CION/LIC before the US trainers were off-loaded by the COAS. so the main beneficiary of such training in the short-term was the FC. the army is addressing this issue by now including such training (COIN/LIC) in the normal training curriculam at their regimental training centers as well as PMA(?) - xeric anyway is best suited to answer but i doubt he will.......

 

[Jango]

Is it me but both the arty, tanks seem very old and outdated. Also this did not fill me with confidence as the army seemed to be lacking leadership and a plan. Where are the drones so that you can spot the crazies and can direct fire at them rather than trying to figure out what is going on. And these men have been sent into the mountains where the crazies can sit on the ridges and fire at them into their pick-ups, no protection and everytime there is firing they have to get out and hide... poor skills.

These units should have hand launched drones that feed intel from the air so they know what is happening from the heights rather than run around like headless chickens trying to figure out what is what and where and how?

Come on Pak army you need to do better than this! No wonder the terrorists are so confident we are hardly touching them.

Well Taliban dont have any anti tank weapons or any sophisticated stuff to counter a tank so Al Zarrar and other older tank a do the job pretty effectively I.e launching a shell...they don't need any battlefield management system or anything.

I agree with the pick up part...they are woefully exposed in that scenario.

 

[fatman17]

Well Taliban dont have any anti tank weapons or any sophisticated stuff to counter a tank so Al Zarrar and other older tank a do the job pretty effectively I.e launching a shell...they don't need any battlefield management system or anything.

I agree with the pick up part...they are woefully exposed in that scenario.

it took 4 hits from a RPG-7 at close range to decapitate the tank, however the crew walked away un-hurt. there is a famous pic around here someplace.

 

[Liquidmetal]

Well Taliban dont have any anti tank weapons or any sophisticated stuff to counter a tank so Al Zarrar and other older tank a do the job pretty effectively I.e launching a shell...they don't need any battlefield management system or anything.

I agree with the pick up part...they are woefully exposed in that scenario.

I respectively disagree, the nuts do have RPGs and they have heavy guns, and their great advantage of being in the mountains and are hidden, so they can surprise the platoons.

Hence, intel from the air is vital. in this video, they are in a pick up and have no idea of where the firing originates, 1 lousy binoculars is not good enough!

 

[Jango]

I respectively disagree, the nuts do have RPGs and they have heavy guns, and their great advantage of being in the mountains and are hidden, so they can surprise the platoons.

Hence, intel from the air is vital. in this video, they are in a pick up and have no idea of where the firing originates, 1 lousy binoculars is not good enough!

I agree with this, my post was regarding the old tanks thing.

 

[Liquidmetal]

I agree with this, my post was regarding the old tanks thing.

Yes you are right, the Al-Zarrars and the older artillery guns are sufficient for this operation. Luckily the nutters have not been given ATGMs and anti-tank guns by their sponsor(s) otherwise we would have been in another type of war.

However, I also have great concerns that the retaliatory fire by our forces may be indiscriminate and we could be causing much collateral damage which could be counter-productive as the tribals are quick to change sides due to losses caused by our army.

There is an understanding of winning hearts and minds when the jawans loaded up with rations on their back and went to supply the people, and I am all praise for our men, who I think are the best but they are not being supported properly so that they have the best tools to do a really hard job (so hard that even after spending almost a trillion dollars, and having the might of the Western miltary and money, ISAF could hardly manage to control only parts of Afghanistan).

These men need armoured carriers so they can thrust into battle without worrying about an RPG round blasting them.

These men also need commanders that have the latest intel from the air and the ground so that they can spot the terrorists and target them singly and effectively and hand-held drones with their respective portable ground stations, camera links and IFR would help a great deal. And these things are made in Pak and should be bought and used all the time by these units.

(I apologise for the long reply just got carried away)

 

[Jango]

Yes you are right, the Al-Zarrars and the older artillery guns are sufficient for this operation. Luckily the nutters have not been given ATGMs and anti-tank guns by their sponsor(s) otherwise we would have been in another type of war.

However, I also have great concerns that the retaliatory fire by our forces may be indiscriminate and we could be causing much collateral damage which could be counter-productive as the tribals are quick to change sides due to losses caused by our army.

There is an understanding of winning hearts and minds when the jawans loaded up with rations on their back and went to supply the people, and I am all praise for our men, who I think are the best but they are not being supported properly so that they have the best tools to do a really hard job (so hard that even after spending almost a trillion dollars, and having the might of the Western miltary and money, ISAF could hardly manage to control only parts of Afghanistan).

These men need armoured carriers so they can thrust into battle without worrying about an RPG round blasting them.

These men also need commanders that have the latest intel from the air and the ground so that they can spot the terrorists and target them singly and effectively and hand-held drones with their respective portable ground stations, camera links and IFR would help a great deal. And these things are made in Pak and should be bought and used all the time by these units.

(I apologise for the long reply just got carried away)

Drones have been recently deployed in the field, waqt to lagay ga.

MRAP's have also been seriously looked towards by the PA< CHinese, South African and some others have been trialed, there was news that Chinese ones are gonna be bought, wonder what happened to that. The CASSPIR was used for some time on a trial basis as well.

In the end, it all comes down to how deep your pocket is.

As for the perception issue and collateral damage, all the ops and other things are done after consent from the local elders. If you watched the whole video, the tank commander clearly says that 'we have talked with the elders and they assure us no civilian is there and we can move forward'...similarly in another video, the Captain while recalling the incident said 'we first asked the tribal elders to go and negotiate, but when they failed, they gave us the go ahead for the op'.

 

[Xeric]

Is it me but both the arty, tanks seem very old and outdated. Also this did not fill me with confidence as the army seemed to be lacking leadership and a plan. Where are the drones so that you can spot the crazies and can direct fire at them rather than trying to figure out what is going on. And these men have been sent into the mountains where the crazies can sit on the ridges and fire at them into their pick-ups, no protection and everytime there is firing they have to get out and hide... poor skills.

These units should have hand launched drones that feed intel from the air so they know what is happening from the heights rather than run around like headless chickens trying to figure out what is what and where and how?

Come on Pak army you need to do better than this! No wonder the terrorists are so confident we are hardly touching them.

Dare i ask, where are the monies...??


On a serious note, we do employ drones (those that are available to us) and a few other techs that you guys will be surprised to know about, but then we conservative musalman lot like to keep everything hidden inside the hijab

Afterall, Pak Army is the eponym for these terrorists.

 

[Xeric]

A question - Has the training, experience & drilling accrued to the Pakistani Army due to COIN/LIC Operations all over the country made it a better Army in the conventional sense ? Which is to say would you say there is (i) none (ii) some or (ii) significant carry over from what you learn fighting a Non-Conventional war to the skill-set needed to fight a conventional war ?

i must say alot.

Since '71 the military hasnt seen any worthwhile action. These operations has overhauled the outlook of an ordinary soldier, made him tougher, more experienced, confident and more effective.

 

[Xeric]

pl dont quote my figures but about 10-15 wings of the FC were upgraded in terms of equipment / training for CION/LIC before the US trainers were off-loaded by the COAS. so the main beneficiary of such training in the short-term was the FC. the army is addressing this issue by now including such training (COIN/LIC) in the normal training curriculam at their regimental training centers as well as PMA(?) - xeric anyway is best suited to answer but i doubt he will.......

i'll not comment on your points concerning FC being trained by the US and their equipment being upgraded, but what i can tell you is that these ops have helped (both the) FCs to transform from a force that guarded the borders and checked smuggling into a hard hitting potent force which can be employed against any regular adversary at par with our Army, in any terrain and at any time.