Pakistan Army Aviation

[imiakhtar]

Why they r asking the same junks AH-1'scobras which will be given in 100 years and may take 1000 years 2 upgrade and today KYANII said i have requested AH-64D Apache, I have heared on T.V.
Why don't they just try to induct about 50-60 Z-10'swhich will be available in 2010, and so expensive and un-reliable $25 million Apache or more.Where as Z-10's will be cheaper in terms of operating cost as PAC could easily manufature its spare parts and most notably un-classified in terms of avionics and its weapon system will be not classiied to the Indian military where as the Apache's weapons and avionics will be classified to them and could be easily jammed by them.He just have to asked about some free and upgraded AH-1's Cobra's and there spare's and must try to negotiate for our 14 remaining F-16 Block-15's so as our fleet could be able get to nos. of 62 from current 48 and may be additional more than 40 F-16 Block-15's.
I wish Pak Army Aviation should look like:
UH-1 Heuy's:50 upgraded with latest avionics with four bladed config.(ex-U.S)
Bell-407:50 with latest avionics
Bell-412:50 with latest avionics
Mi-17 V5 & V7 only:50+ with latest avionics from EU (being replace by Z-10's in comin years)
Z-15's :30+ with latest avionics rom EU (replaces PUMA's)
Z-10's:50-60
AH-1'sCobra's:39-59 Upgraded to same latest standards.
Large no. of UAV'S Low and meduim altitude UAV'S/UCAV's
and I wishes that all AEW&C's that we are procuring must work in conjuction like as PAK military AWAC's not like PA,PN &PAF having separate AEW&C's. Imeant to say that we should have a combine transportation as well as combine AEW&C's system.

And who is going to pay for this???

Contrary to popular thought, when it comes to defence procurement, the Armed Forces are not ran by a bunch of crackpots and they know what they're doing. It's about getting a balance between capabilities and cost or as some would say "bang for 'buck".

The AH-1 Cobras fit this role very well as has been proven by their extensive use in the NWFP.

As with many things Chinese, cloned or indigenous, when compared to their Western counterparts, to put it bluntly, SUCK!

You claim the AH-64s are unreliable. Source? The Brits and the US seems to be happy with their performance in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Also, what's with the obsession of upgrading everything with new avionics? Barring the powerplants, avionics are often the most expensive equipment when it comes to aviation.

The helicopters you've listed are primarily used for the transport role. Apart from maybe improving navigation and guidance systems for use in mountain valleys/poor weather/visibilty, there really is no need! If some were used for SpecOps then that would be an entirely different matter.

Unfortunately you are right in mentioning the poor co-operation between the branches. There just doesn't seem to be much communication and if anything they seem to be very isolated from each other, with each doing their own thing. I guess the lack of resources doesn't help.

However, I do think that the Armed Forces has a defecit in tactical airlift and a few more C-130 and Mi-17s would not go amiss.

Regards

 

[fatman17]

However, I do think that the Armed Forces has a defecit in tactical airlift and a few more C-130 and Mi-17s would not go amiss.

they are on their way!

 

[fatman17]

Press Release

No 51/2009-ISPR Dated: March 7, 2009

Multan - March 7, 2009: Pakistan Army Aviation undertook a spectacular training exercise at Muzaffargarh Ranges today.

Firing from Cobra gunship helicopters was the main feature of the exercise in which the targets were engaged effectively. The exercise includes both day and night firing. Newly inducted pilots in Pakistan Army Aviation successfully achieved the desired results of the training. Various types of missiles, rockets and cannons were fired from the Cobra gunship helicopters from different positions and locations.

The Army Aviation pilots demonstrated high standard of professional skill and agility. The accuracy of firing displayed by the pilots was highly appreciated.

 

[fatman17]

Press Release

No 59/2009-ISPR Dated: March 20, 2009

Rawalpindi - March 20, 2009: To pay homage to the Shuhada of Army Aviation a Monument has been built at Army Aviation base Dhamial. An inauguration ceremony was held at Headquarters Army Aviation Group today. Colonel Commandant Army Aviation, Major General Waqar Ahmed Kingravi was the Chief Guest on the occasion. General Officer Commanding, Army Aviation welcomed the distinguished guests and accented upon the importance of the day. Chief guest lauded the sacrifices of Pakistan Army aviators towards defence of the country and humanitarian assistance. Till dated 123 Aviators including 82 officers have embraced shahadat in the line of duty. He exhorted all aviators to work hard and maintain the high standards set by our predecessors. At the end he laid a floral wreath on the "Aviation Monument" and offered prayer.

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan Army Aviation Corps

GENERAL | ORDER OF BATTLE | INVENTORY | BASES


Pakistan’s Army Aviation Corps provides the army with an organic airlift, armed reconnaissance, assault, casualty evacuation and attack capability. The Army Aviation Corps currently consists of around 16 squadrons (some with detached flights), the Army Aviation School at Rahwali and two separate flights based on eight army aviation bases – the most important of which is Qasim - and as a tenant on PAF Base Samungli. In addition to the rotary-winged assets, small numbers of multi-engined fixed winged transports are flown by a single squadron and the VIP flight.

The Army Aviation Corps can trace its origin back to five Austers acquired by the Pakistan Air Force when it was first organised on August 14, 1947, the pilots being recruited from the Gunnery Corps. During 1955 maintenance of the Austers became the Army’s responsibility, while in 1958 the air observation post squadrons were transferred to the Army’s Aviation Wing and recruitment was opened up to all branches of the service. The Army Aviation School was opened in January 1959 and received its first helicopters - Bell 47G/OH-13 Siouxes - in 1964.

Army aviation remained a small force until after the 1965 conflict with India, when its usefulness was amply demonstrated, resulting in plans to expand it. It the years that followed new helicopters entered service, including Aérospatiale Alouette IIIs for high-altitude operations and Mil Mi-8 Hips in the airlift role. Both types were active in East Pakistan during the 1971 war.

During 1974 the first Saab MFI-17s were delivered to begin replacing Cessna Bird Dogs. They were later followed by large numbers of locally assembled examples of the Swedish aircraft, which are known as Mushshaks. In March 1977 the organisation was raised to the status of a Corps.

The Soviet invasion of Pakistan was the pretext for the renewal of US military assistance to Pakistan that had been cut off after the 1965 war. In 1984 a long-term gaol for an attack helicopter was fulfilled by delivery of the first of 20 Bell AH-1S Cobras. Armed with Hughes BGM-71 TOW missiles, the Cobras were assigned to two squadrons alongside a small number of Bell 206B JetRangers that act as scouts for the armed helicopters.

Pakistan’s co-operation with the United States in the ‘war on terror’ and its operations along the border with Afghanistan resulted in the delivery of a further 40 AH-1F Cobras, half of which will be used as a source of spares. Other deliveries included 40 Bell UH-1H Iroquois (half for spares) to bolster a small number of Hueys delivered by the United States and Iran in the early 1970s. In addition, since 2004 a total of 26 Bell 412EPs were leased from the United States to the Army Aviation Corps to bolster its airlift capabilities. The 25 survivors were officially handed-over to full Pakistan ownership in October 2007. A total of ten Eurocopter AS350B3 Fennecs were delivered from late 2006.

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan Army Aviation Corps

INVENTORY

Key

D: Delivered
Cu: Current
L: Losses
Cv: Converted
W: Withdrawn From Use
So: Sold
St: Stored
O: Outstanding Order



Aircraft

Aérospatiale

AS.350B3 Écureuil
D;10
Cu;10

Note: Delivered in 2005 & 2006.

SA.315B Lama
D;20
Cu;+ 6
L;4+
W;10+

SA.316B Alouette III
D;12
Cu;1+

SA.330F Puma
D;1
Cu;1

SA.330J Puma
D;35
Cu; 20+
L;1+

Note: Confirmed attrition loss occurred on 8th October 2007.

SE.3160 Alouette III
D;6
Cu;1+

AgustaWestland

AW139
D;1
Cu;1
O;4

In service from May 2009

Note: Of the 5 examples being acquired, 2 are to assume duties as VIP/VVIP transports whilst the remaining 3 will be fitted to undertake humanitarian relief operations. The first AW139 will be delivered in late May 2009.


Beech Aircraft

Beech 200 Super King Air
D;1
Cu;1

U-8F Seminole
D;1
Cu; 0
L;1

Bell Helicopter

AH-1F Cobra
D;20
Cu;20

Note: A total of 40 airframes were due from the US via FMS; 20 are to be used for spares only & are not included in the above totals. Deliveries have been concluded by the end of 2008. On 26th September 2008 the US DSCA notified Congress of the possible sale, refurbishment & maintenance of a further 8 Cobras.(rejected by the army)

AH-1S Cobra
D;20
Cu;19
L;1

Note: 19 surviving airframes are in the process of undergoing upgrades to AH-1F configuration for conformity with newly-delivered former US Army examples arriving in 2007 & 2008.

Bell 206B-2 JetRanger
D;10
Cu; 6
L;1+
W;1+

Bell 206B-3 JetRanger
D;12
Cu; 8+

Bell 412EP
D;10+
Cu; 10+

Note: At least 10 examples are believed to have been allocated to Army from the batch of 26 delivered to Pakistan. On 1st June 2009 the US Army awarded a $51 million contract for 5 Bell 412EP helicopters to BHTI & it is believed the end-user might possibly be Pakistan, although this has not yet been confirmed.

UH-1H Iroquois
D;6
Cu; 4
L;2
O;20

Note: 40 in total due from US via FMS; 20 are expected to be used for spares: deliveries underway.


Cessna Aircraft Company

550 Citation II Bravo
D;1
Cu;1

Cessna 421C Golden Eagle
D; 1
Cu; 1

Cessna 560 Citation V
D;1
Cu; 1

Harbin Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation

Y-12 II Turbo Panda
D;4
CU;4

Kazan Helicopters

Mi-172 'Hip-H'
D;3
Cu;3

Note: 3 aircraft delivered during the second half of 2008. All are configured for the VVIP & presidential transportation role.

Mi-17-V5 'Hip'
D; 2
Cu; 2

Note: 2 aircraft delivered during the second half of 2008. Both are configured for the MedEvac & SAR role.


MD Helicopters

Hughes 500
D; ?
Cu; ?

Mil (Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant)

Mi-17-1V 'Hip-H'
D; 36
Cu; 33
L;3

Note: As many as 32 Mi-17-1V models are reported to have been acquired in a large batch delivered between 2002 & 2008. A further 4 Mi-17 helicopters have been leased from the US Department of Defense for use in ongoing anti-Taliban operations in the Swat Valley, having been delivered in late June 2009. The most recent attrition losses have occurred on 5th August 2004 & 3rd July 2009, the latter resulting in 26 fatalities.

Mi-24V 'Hind-E'
D; 1
Cu; 1

Note: Captured ex-Afghan example believed to have been in recent use.

Mi-8T 'Hip-C'
D; 12
Cu; 0
W;12

Note: Type withdrawn from service during 1986.


Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC)

MFI-17 Mushshak
D; 120
Cu; ?
L;1+

Note: Around 300 built: mostly delivered to Pakistan AF & Army, although exact quantities are unconfirmed to date. A confirmed attrition loss occurred on 13th August 2008, with 1 fatality.


Rockwell International

Aero Commander 690C Super
D; 2 or 3
Cu; 1
L;1 or 2

Gulfstream Jetprop 840
D;1
Cu; 1

Schweizer Aircraft Corporation

Schweizer 300C
D; 10
Cu; 10

Note; used exclusively by ISI.

 

[Super Falcon]

why not we ask for apaches and blackhawks

 

[fatman17]

why not we ask for apaches and blackhawks

we ask - they not give !

 

[Super Falcon]

r u sure we ask them

 

[fatman17]

r u sure we ask them

personally I have not asked them, but the GoP has asked on many occassions!

 

[Beskar]

In regards to new procurements, I have some news.

Pakistan will be receiving some latest troop transport helicopters which are upgraded to 21st century standards, and they're completely digital. I won't tell which one just yet, but they're pretty much on their way as the deal has already been signed.

Will post more information in a few days with complete details.

 

[fatman17]

In regards to new procurements, I have some news.

Pakistan will be receiving some latest troop transport helicopters which are upgraded to 21st century standards, and they're completely digital. I won't tell which one just yet, but they're pretty much on their way as the deal has already been signed.

Will post more information in a few days with complete details.

they may be Puma's which have been upgraded by the french!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

In regards to new procurements, I have some news.

Pakistan will be receiving some latest troop transport helicopters which are upgraded to 21st century standards, and they're completely digital. I won't tell which one just yet, but they're pretty much on their way as the deal has already been signed.

Will post more information in a few days with complete details.

is it the AW-139? so i army finally planing to induct more then just 4 of them?...
or is it some old chopper upgraded to todays standard.. could it be PUMA?

 

[Mercenary]

Getting Apache Gunships right now is a mistake for Pakistan

Pakistani economy is in the tank and the people we are fighting in NWFP, we don't need Apache Gunships to deal with them.

Cobra's are doing fine. We just need more of them.

 

[Super Falcon]

i think we are getting tiger for sure now 18 tiger helicopters