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Pakistan Army Aviation Corps - Updated

It was reported in February 2020 that Pakistani Army has shown a serious interest in Z-10ME after jeopardization of the Turkish T129 attack helicopter deal. A recent video (September 2018) suggested that some Z-10s and Z-10Hs (S/N LH9621xx, 9531xx, 9631xx, 9511xx) have been further upgraded. It features external ceramic armor plates outside the forward and back cockpits as well as the engine compartment to provide a better protection against small AAA fire. MAWS sensors were installed on both sides of the nose. The gunner also wears the new HMD. The latest image (February 2020) indicated some have redesigned engine exhausts facing upward similar to those onboard Z-10ME in order to reduce IR signature.
I heard thay Z10's electronics got burnt in Hot weather during testing so did they fixed that short coming?

not necessary...
its possible that only AH1Z come. They might want Pakistan to simply buy more AH1Z

But what about mood of Congress???? :-)
I think FMF is the issue. Pak wants it with FMF
 
I heard thay Z10's electronics got burnt in Hot weather during testing so did they fixed that short coming?




I think FMF is the issue. Pak wants it with FMF
Yes spot on there is no bar on Pak to buy US stuff but Pk wants through CSF Money subsidizes by US. But after talib deal Good chance Pak will get what she after
 
The suspension is a trump administration decision. congress has already approved this sale
But what about mood of Congress???? :-) they have super cobras as well in storage Pak can ask for both old and new one if Pak only wants US attack Heli
 
I hope PAA will never choose Z-10 attack helos,
its better to upgrade the current fleet of Ah-1F/S fleet with TAI upgrades like Bahranians
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I hope PAA will never choose Z-10 attack helos,
its better to upgrade the current fleet of Ah-1F/S fleet with TAI upgrades like Bahranians
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We have discussed this idea couple of months ago with Turkey. I remember hearing chit chat between Turkish and Pakistani officials about upgraded Cobras and the deliveries of simulators during 5th Defense port expo held last year in Islamabad.
 
We have discussed this idea couple of months ago with Turkey. I remember hearing chit chat between Turkish and Pakistani officials about upgraded Cobras and the deliveries of simulators during 5th Defense port expo held last year in Islamabad.
I know you will not divulge anything more but is it mere chit chat or is htere work on going to make it happen.
A
 
We have discussed this idea couple of months ago with Turkey. I remember hearing chit chat between Turkish and Pakistani officials about upgraded Cobras and the deliveries of simulators during 5th Defense port expo held last year in Islamabad.
Even PAA get T129 or Zulus even Z10 ME these cobras shouldn't go to junk yard we have engine overhauling facility with Turkish Upgrade its as deadly as any other chopper can use by FC or even Army for Plain areas 35-40 copies will be very handy.
 
I know you will not divulge anything more but is it mere chit chat or is htere work on going to make it happen.
A
Chit chat. Or better to say, 'exploratory discussion'.

Even PAA get T129 or Zulus even Z10 ME these cobras shouldn't go to junk yard we have engine overhauling facility with Turkish Upgrade its as deadly as any other chopper can use by FC or even Army for Plain areas 35-40 copies will be very handy.
Cobras to FC is near to impossible.
 
Chit chat. Or better to say, 'exploratory discussion'.


Cobras to FC is near to impossible.
It's fine but Army can keep them with these Upgrades Jordan got upgrade theior Ah1F too
 
Comparing upgrades for Bahrain, Jordan with our requirements is not comparable. Our field requirements are quite different. Hot and high 55*C, desert, mountains, snow bound etc etc plus our usage, sortie rates are much higher.
 
PAA needs a dedicated strike aircraft on the lines of A-10 , SU-25 etc that can relieve PAF from carrying the burden of not only giving air cover to PA but also performing air interdiction missions.

Considering the aircrafts already operated by PAF and slated for retirement are F-7 and Mirage III/V.

A-5 was a great choice, it was very cheap to procure and maintenance cost was low. It had 10 hard points and could carry a variety of air to ground ordnance including guided, unguided etc bombs. Infact PAF also used it for A2A CAP's. Retired and out of service, it might be a cumbersome task to bring its support and maintenance system back to life.

The light trainers K-8 and MFI-17 cannot carry enough ordnance to strike the enemy targets and their ecm and avionics is basic level. However, as last resort, they can have pylons added to them to carry A2G ordnance.

Mirages III/V are even older than F-7 though they are more potent and effective than F-7, even Non-ROSE ones. Most of Mirages acquired in the last batch were attained to be cannabalized for parts which means that apart from ROSE modified, the other mirages have almost non existent life on their air frames. PAF wanted to convert more Mirages to ROSE standards but changed decision due to over bearing cost and importantly coz of old ageing air frames. Retired Non-Rose Mirages can spark more crashes than sortie rates. On the other hand, PAF might need them for parts to keep ROSE squadrons airworthy for next many years.

PAF may not let go of F-7 PG quickly. It has an upgraded radar and its performance at high altitude is good.

The F-7P replaced by JF-17 can be the choice of aircraft for PAA for ground strike missions. SLAF and BAF have used them as ground strike aircraft with different munitions. BAF has also modified F-7 by increasing its hard points from 5 to 7.

F-7P already has the support and maintenance infrastructure available for operations. There are 100+ F-7P in PAF service. Even if a 12-18 aircrafts squadron is given to the three commands of PA: Northern,Central and Southern, 50 odd aircrafts would be required.

The AGM-65 maverick in PAF service is used by F-16's, though its an under utilization for it. F-16 in PAF has many other significant roles.

If this weapon is integrated with Grifo radar of F-7P and used by PAA , having a range of around of 20km can be used effectively to hit enemy tanks, Mobile SAM's, Ammo and Fuel dumps, C4I and other command centres, important bridges etc.
Originally a TV guided missile but in later variants the resolution has been enhanced so pilots dont need to get really close to target to fire it as some versions are IR and laser homing targetting.It can be used with LANTRIN and even Altis pod on PAF F-16's.
C-704 is considered the chinese equivalent of AGM-65, although C-704 is an anti-ship missile.

F-7 has basic 2 X 30mm cannons. Non guided 500kg bombs or Mk82 bombs may also be used. BAF uses cluster, anti runway and PGM bombs.
It can already carry Aim-9 A2A missile.

Though the loiter time is less but if it can show up in time of need, engage, strike and turn away, its a bang for buck.

With the induction of a dedicated strike aircraft in PAA, the distress calls for air cover as well as air support by PA can be met easily without hampering PAF ops.

Brilliant analysis. I agree. I actually wrote a paper once to do the same with the A-5s. Spare parts are cheap for F-7Ps. Also, one can easily by F-7Gs from China for the same purpose, they are a bit better quality and better for CAS due to lower loiter speeds, better fuel consumption and better gun stability.

The other option is to go for a "Pak version of an A-10 / Su-25"

If you want a cheap, rugged plane that can take small arms fire, use standoff munition, and scoot, you can build one for about 1 - 5 million dollars per plane. Using simple aluminum and kevlar as armour and keeping costs down with piston engines (or a more innovative solution, see below).

If we take the Tucano as the base idea, the largest cost of the Tucano is in its engine, which is a turboprop. Building the same idea with a piston engine would reduce cost of purchase and upkeep by 1/4th

If one wished to go cheaper than this, it is possible to go with a combination of a two-stroke and a pulsejet. The advantage is to reduce costs to about 100,000 dollars per engine and to be able to manufacture them locally 100 percent and minimal hassle.
 
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