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Pakistan Army Aviation Corps - Updated

Most likely because the Indian Air Force has already placed orders for 24 Chinook helicopters.
you indians see everything in indian sight without using logic

CH-47A first flight was 21 September 1961 indian order placed at Sep 22, 2015.

so pakistanis waited 54 years, 1 day for indians to purchase it then we have excuse of not buying it ? india se bahir bhi dunya hai kabhi soccho
 
Advantage the AW139 gives in terms of logistics is it has engine commonality with the Cessna MEDEVAC aircraft recently inducted. Also if Pakistan looked at the Turkish Hurkus aircraft as a lead in trainer/COIN aircraft it also has same engine.

As of heavy lift Helos there was that rumour about some old Italian CH47C Chinooks but that fell through clearly. The Italians did back in the day export them to countries like Libya. Leonardo have a new line open for the newer CH47F but not sure whether they have an export licence as before. The type did impress Pakistan during its use in the relief operations after the 2005 earthquake.

Better option would be to exercise some patience and wait for outcome of the joint Russian-Chinese heavy lift helicopter project. Bigger and badder than the Mi26.
 
Hmmm, Your point regarding Z10 do make a lot of sense. PA getting Z10 will be a win for both. I was however talking about Rooivalk as an addition to Z10. Then again, perhaps it was a bit too ambitious of me, operating three different gunships (Zulu, Z10 and Rooivalk) along with the Mi35 do not make much sense.

Let’s see what the Chinese can come up with. The two examples the send here were labeled as a gift but were in fact for evaluation purpose and were put through their paces in WoT. There were a few glitches reported and it is likely that the birds are back in China for modification and upgrades. I hope the Chinese can come up with some solution and then we can induct these in numbers. However I do not really like the idea of AW139 too much either as they are quite expensive. IF we are looking at numbers around 200 (and it can easily go up there if they come for all arms of military and fill in quite a few roles like medium lift, ambulance, SAR, VVIP transport etc) perhaps then it will make some sense. How about Mi17 however? They are reliable and robust, we are good with them and have decent support infrastructure, plus the Chinese are making them now so you know . . . . .
MI17 have slightly better payload but lesser range (which might not be that important in case of Pakistan).


Excellent news!!

How many are we getting? Any idea sir?

You mentioned 4 in a previous post, was that for Mi17 or AW139?
I am specifically interested in knowing about Mi17E!! Excellent.
4 was for AW139, as far as MI17 is concerned, historically we have purchased in lots of 10.
 
May be Pakistan is trying to get something more useful from Italy
Hence buying these choppers
 
There is no where documented that its coming as FMF. Can you share the link/source for it. As far as general news reports it seems we are paying every cent

It's thru FMF

Here are the news

https://www.dawn.com/news/1250108

WASHINGTON: The United States (US) Navy awarded a $170 million contract for the manufacture of nine AH-1Z Viper Attack Helicopters to Bell Helicopter, the US Department of Defense said in a statement on Monday.

The combat helicopters will be manufactured and delivered to Pakistan under the Foreign Military Sales Program, the statement said.

The Bell AH-1Z Viper is a twin-engine combat chopper based on the previous SuperCobra model developed for the US Marine Corps, Sputnik reported. It has a top speed of 420 kilometres per hour and a range of 610km.

The contract awarded "for the manufacture and delivery of nine AH-1Z aircraft and nine auxiliary fuel kits for the government of Pakistan" is "expected to be completed in September 2018".

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"Foreign military sales funds in the amount of $170,173,188 will be obligated at time of award," the Defense Department statement says, adding that the Naval Air Systems Command is contracting the activity for the Pakistani government.

Last April, the US State Department approved the Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for the AH-1Z Viper Attack Helicopters and AGM-114R Hellfire II Missiles and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $952 million.

Read more: US approves billion-dollar arms sale to Pakistan

Earlier this year, the US approved a $700m sale of eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, to which India strongly objected. The sale was made in order to improve Pakistan’s precision strike capability, the US said.

In a document released in February, the US administration told US lawmakers that its Foreign Military Funding (FMF) to Pakistan would focus on seven priority areas "identified and agreed to with the government of Pakistan".

These include "precision strike; air mobility and combat search and rescue; counter-improvised explosive device and survivability; battlefield communications; night operations; border security; and maritime security/counter-narcotics in support of counter-terrorism aims".

The document, sent to Congress with the US administration’s budget proposals for 2017, identifies these areas as essential to enhancing Pakistan’s counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism capabilities.
 
It's thru FMF

Here are the news

https://www.dawn.com/news/1250108

WASHINGTON: The United States (US) Navy awarded a $170 million contract for the manufacture of nine AH-1Z Viper Attack Helicopters to Bell Helicopter, the US Department of Defense said in a statement on Monday.

The combat helicopters will be manufactured and delivered to Pakistan under the Foreign Military Sales Program, the statement said.

The Bell AH-1Z Viper is a twin-engine combat chopper based on the previous SuperCobra model developed for the US Marine Corps, Sputnik reported. It has a top speed of 420 kilometres per hour and a range of 610km.

The contract awarded "for the manufacture and delivery of nine AH-1Z aircraft and nine auxiliary fuel kits for the government of Pakistan" is "expected to be completed in September 2018".

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"Foreign military sales funds in the amount of $170,173,188 will be obligated at time of award," the Defense Department statement says, adding that the Naval Air Systems Command is contracting the activity for the Pakistani government.

Last April, the US State Department approved the Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for the AH-1Z Viper Attack Helicopters and AGM-114R Hellfire II Missiles and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $952 million.

Read more: US approves billion-dollar arms sale to Pakistan

Earlier this year, the US approved a $700m sale of eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, to which India strongly objected. The sale was made in order to improve Pakistan’s precision strike capability, the US said.

In a document released in February, the US administration told US lawmakers that its Foreign Military Funding (FMF) to Pakistan would focus on seven priority areas "identified and agreed to with the government of Pakistan".

These include "precision strike; air mobility and combat search and rescue; counter-improvised explosive device and survivability; battlefield communications; night operations; border security; and maritime security/counter-narcotics in support of counter-terrorism aims".

The document, sent to Congress with the US administration’s budget proposals for 2017, identifies these areas as essential to enhancing Pakistan’s counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism capabilities.
I beg to disagree.
 
I beg to disagree.

Well, it said so on the US department of defence website, if you disagree, maybe you should contact US DoD and ask to pay in full instead of using Foreign Military Sales Fund.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/713026/

CONTRACTS


NAVY


Bell Helicopter Textron Inc., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded $170,173,188 for modification P00047 to a previously awarded firm-fixed-price contract (N00019-13-C-0023) for the manufacture and delivery of nine AH-1Z aircraft, and nine auxiliary fuel kits for the government of Pakistan under the Foreign Military Sales program. Work will be performed in Fort Worth, Texas (60 percent); and Amarillo, Texas (40 percent), and is expected to be completed in September 2018. Foreign military sales funds in the amount of $170,173,188 will be obligated at time of award, none of which will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Maryland, is the contracting activity.


BAE Systems Information and Electronic Systems Integration Inc., Nashua, New Hampshire, is being awarded a $39,999,960 firm-fixed-price contract for the new manufacture of MJU-68/B flares for the PMA272 Air Expendable Countermeasures program. This effort combines purchases for the government of Israel under the Foreign Military Sales program. Work will be performed in Toon, Tennessee, and is expected to be completed by August 2018. Fiscal 2014 and fiscal 2015 procurement of ammunition (Navy and Marine Corp) funds in the amount of $10,463,323; fiscal 2014 and fiscal 2015 aircraft and ammunition (Air Force) funds in the amount of $21,639,978; and foreign military sales funds in the amount of $7,896,659 will be obligated at the time of award and funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This sole-source requirement received under authority 10 U.S. Code 2304 (c)(1). Naval Supply Systems Command Weapon Systems Support, Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, is the contracting activity (N00104-16-C-K037).


Raytheon Integrated Defense Systems, Tewksbury, Massachusetts, is being awarded a $17,653,917 cost-plus-fixed-fee contract for science and technology research concerning the Network Cooperative Radar Program. The focus of this effort is to perform design and development for the Network Cooperative Radar Program. This contract contains an option, which if exercised, will bring the contract value to $18,749,375. Work will be performed in Tewksbury, Massachusetts, and is expected to be completed April 2017. If the option is exercised, work will continue through July 9, 2018. Fiscal 2015 research, development, test and evaluation (Navy) funds in the amount of $3,010,838 will be obligated at the time of award, and will expire at end if current fiscal year. This contract was competitively procured under Office of Naval Research Broad Agency Announcement 15-001. Five full proposals were received for the solicitation. The Office of Naval Research, Arlington, Virginia, is the contracting activity (N00014-16-C-2007).


Mercury Defense Systems,* Cypress, California, is being awarded $15,430,634 for firm-fixed-price delivery order 0005 against previously issued basic ordering agreement N68335-12-G-0059 for work associated with a Phase III Small Business Innovation Research effort under Topic N06-036, entitled “Advanced Techniques for Digital Radio Frequency Memories (DRFM).” This order includes production of 28 Type II advanced DRFM units. Work will be performed in Cypress, California, and is expected to be completed in January 2018. Fiscal 2015 aircraft procurement (Air Force); and fiscal 2015 missile procurement (Air Force) funds in the amount of $15,430,634 will be obligated at time of award, none of which will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. The Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division, Lakehurst, New Jersey, is the contracting activity.


Bell-Boeing Joint Project Office, Amarillo, Texas, is being awarded $14,485,959 for cost-plus- fixed-fee modification to delivery order 0096 previously issued against basic ordering agreement N00019-12-G-0006 in support of the V-22 aircraft. This modification provides for the procurement of nonrecurring engineering in support of the CV-22 Integrated Aircraft Survivability Equipment (IASE) joint urgent operational need effort as well as 10 CV-22 IASE A-kits. Work will be performed at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (72 percent); Mesa, Arizona (11 percent); St. Louis, Missouri (7 percent); Fort Worth, Texas (3 percent); and various locations throughout the U.S. (7 percent), and is expected to be completed in March 2017. Fiscal 2015 aircraft procurement (Air Force); and fiscal 2015 research, development, test and evaluation (Air Force) funds in the amount of $6,999,999 will be obligated at time of award; $5,119,766 of which will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Maryland, is the contracting activity.


Bell Helicopter Textron Inc., Fort Worth, Texas, is being issued $7,466,150 for delivery order 0003 against previously awarded basic ordering agreement N00019-16-G-0012 for the procurement and installation of eight AN/APR-39D(V)2 radar system integration kits (A-kits) into Lot 13 AH-1Z and UH-1Y aircraft. Work will be performed in Fort Worth, Texas, and is expected to be completed in December 2018. Fiscal 2016 aircraft procurement (Navy) funds in the amount of $7,466,150 will be obligated at time of award, none of which will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Maryland, is the contracting activity.



ARMY



Textron Systems Marine & Land Systems, New Orleans, Louisiana, was awarded a $65,948,115 firm-fixed-price, foreign military sales contract (Iraq, Columbia) for 54 each Commando Select armored personnel carriers (APCs) with 40/50 turret; four each Commando Select APCs with 40/50 turret and command and control (C2) variant; and two each Commando Select APCs. One bid was solicited with one received. Work will be performed in Slidell, Louisiana, with an estimated completion date of April 4, 2016. Other procurement funds in the amount of $65,948,115 were obligated at the time of the award. Army Contracting Command, Warren, Michigan, is the contracting activity (W56HZV-16-C-0079).



Medico Industries Inc., Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania, was awarded a $17,888,945 modification (P00014) to contract W15QKN-13-C-0050 for 120mm high-explosive shells; 120mm high-explosive and full-range practice charges; and smoke adapter fuses. Work will be performed in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania, with an estimated completion date of Dec. 31, 2017. Fiscal 2015 and 2016 other procurement funds in the amount of $17,888,945 were obligated at the time of the award. Army Contracting Command, Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey, is the contracting activity.



AIR FORCE



SRA International Inc., Fairfax, Virginia, has been awarded a $7,963,464 modification (P00002) to previously awarded contract FA7037-16-F-8001. Contractor will provide technical project management, integration, planning and programming; network monitoring, configuration management, performance management, mission management, communications security management, systems administration and communications engineering. Work will be performed at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, and is expected to be complete by April 30, 2017. Fiscal 2016 overseas contingency operations funds in the amount of $4,592,918 are being obligated at the time of award. The 25th Air Force Contracting Office, Lackland Air Force Base, Texas, is the contracting activity.



DEFENSE ADVANCED RESEARCH PROJECTS AGENCY



International Business Machines Corp. (IBM), Yorktown Heights, New York, has been issued a ceiling decrease modification in the amount of $7,397,671 (P00017) to previously awarded HR0011-12-C-0015, for research under the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) I20 Broad Operational Language Translation (BOLT) program. The modification decreases the total cumulative face value of the contract from $32,761,127 to $25,363,456. Work will be performed in Yorktown Heights, New York (57 percent); Aachen, Germany (9 percent); College Park, Maryland (9 percent); Cambridge, United Kingdom (8 percent); Stanford, California (8 percent); Baltimore, Maryland (4 percent); Le Mans, France (4 percent); and Cambridge, Massachusetts (1 percent), with an expected completion date of September 2016. DARPA, Arlington, Virginia, is the contracting activity.
 
I beg to disagree.
It's thru FMF

Here are the news

https://www.dawn.com/news/1250108

WASHINGTON: The United States (US) Navy awarded a $170 million contract for the manufacture of nine AH-1Z Viper Attack Helicopters to Bell Helicopter, the US Department of Defense said in a statement on Monday.

The combat helicopters will be manufactured and delivered to Pakistan under the Foreign Military Sales Program, the statement said.

...................
we dont need to disagree, his source itself say FMS(Foreign Military Sales Program) in the 4-5 line.
so either he cant read or posted the wrong source
 
we dont need to disagree, his source itself say FMS(Foreign Military Sales Program) in the 4-5 line.
so either he cant read or posted the wrong source

Foreign Military fund is also used to pay thru both Foreign Military Sales program (FMS) and Direct Commercial Sale.

https://www.dsca.mil/programs/foreign-military-sales-fms

Purpose:

The Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program is a form of security assistance authorized by the Arms Export Control Act (AECA), as amended [22 U.S.C. 2751, et. seq.] and a fundamental tool of U.S. foreign policy.

Under Section 3, of the AECA, the U.S. may sell defense articles and services to foreign countries and international organizations when the President formally finds that to do so will strengthen the security of the U.S. and promote world peace.

Under FMS, the U.S. Government and a foreign government enter into a government-to-government agreement called a Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA).

Who:
Secretary of State determines which countries will have programs. Secretary of Defense executes the program.

Funding:
May be funded by country national funds or U.S. Government funds.

https://www.dsca.mil/programs/foreign-military-financing-fmf


Purpose:
The Arms Export Control Act (AECA), as amended [22 U.S.C. 2751, et. seq.], authorizes the President to finance procurement of defense articles and services for foreign countries and international organizations.

FMF enables eligible partner nations to purchase U.S. defense articles, services, and training through either FMS or, for a limited number of countries, through the foreign military financing of direct commercial contracts (FMF/DCC) program (Also DCC Guidelines).

Who:
Secretary of State determines which countries will have programs. Secretary of Defense executes the program.

Funding:
FMF is a source of financing and may be provided to a partner nation on either a grant (non-repayable) or direct loan basis.

In this case, as per the contact, it was paid under United States Foreign Military Sale Financing in FY18

Again, I do not oppose you or anyone representing Pakistani Government to call up DoD and advise them NOT TO PAY THIS THRU FOREIGN MILITARY SALES FUND.
 
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If these funds are FMF as claimed, Pakistan will never get delivery of these helos, just like the F16 fiasco. Congress is in no mood to subsidise arms sales to Pakistan anymore.
 
If these funds are FMF as claimed, Pakistan will never get delivery of these helos, just like the F16 fiasco. Congress is in no mood to subsidise arms sales to Pakistan anymore.

not sure, maybe, maybe not. But regardless, those are FMF funded FMS purchase, well, at least for this contract.
 
not sure, maybe, maybe not. But regardless, those are FMF funded FMS purchase, well, at least for this contract.

1- Sir I am not aware of any congress approval for FMF for these AH-1Z & I am sure you know it very well that without Congress approval US government is not in position to conclude this deal ....
2- If I am not wrong under US law any military funding greater than or equivalent to 100 million is required to be notified to congress & the amount quoted in the news is $ 170 million which mean this facility can not be extended without CONGRESS APPROVAL & as said earlier there is no such approval (at least in
3- As far as source is concern I have not seen this thing reported by any other media outlet neither in Pakistan nor in USA, which mean it might be a misunderstanding of the news reporter
4- Even if we accept the quoted amount as FMF then the question arise
- Why Pakistan will opt for FMF which is only ~18% [(170/952) x 100=17.8] of the total cost of the approved sales of $ 952 million ... ??
- then more surprisingly as of now Pakistan have order only 12 AH-1Z while the approval is for 15 Gunship Helicopter this mean status of 20% of the approved fleet is still in ambiguity .... I find no reason to order less number of AH-1z then numbers specially IF THEY HAVE $ 170 FMF facility available ...
5- Now the part which your have highlighted in your quote
Foreign military sales funds in the amount of $170,173,188 will be obligated at time of award,
This part is only indicating the advance payment/down payment which is required to be paid at the time of placement of orders its a general practice & this 170 is ~30% of total price of $ 571.2 million for 9 AH-1z ordered
none of which will expire at the end of the current fiscal year.
This part is only indicating that non of the ordered AH-1z would be received in the financial year therefore the advance amount would not be realized during the same fiscal year

I don't know how you are getting the expression that this sentence in indicating about the FOREIGN MILITARY FINANCING FACILITY extended for Pakistan for this deal .... plz keep in mind its a government to government deal therefore US government is placing orders & paying finance to the manufacturer on behalf of Pakistani Government which is not dealing with the manufacturer DIRECTLY
 
1- Sir I am not aware of any congress approval for FMF for these AH-1Z & I am sure you know it very well that without Congress approval US government is not in position to conclude this deal ....

The contract said it will not expire by this fiscal year, meaning, the funding approval may not be allocated this year, that mean the funding option is open, they can be approving it at the remaining of FY17 or even FY18.

2- If I am not wrong under US law any military funding greater than or equivalent to 100 million is required to be notified to congress & the amount quoted in the news is $ 170 million which mean this facility can not be extended without CONGRESS APPROVAL & as said earlier there is no such approval (at least in

Read the above response
3- As far as source is concern I have not seen this thing reported by any other media outlet neither in Pakistan nor in USA, which mean it might be a misunderstanding of the news reporter

The contract was report in verbatim at US Department of Defence Website, not just at dawn news

https://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/713026/

4- Even if we accept the quoted amount as FMF then the question arise
- Why Pakistan will opt for FMF which is only ~18% [(170/952) x 100=17.8] of the total cost of the approved sales of $ 952 million ... ??
- then more surprisingly as of now Pakistan have order only 12 AH-1Z while the approval is for 15 Gunship Helicopter this mean status of 20% of the approved fleet is still in ambiguity .... I find no reason to order less number of AH-1z then numbers specially IF THEY HAVE $ 170 FMF facility available ...

No idea, that's up to your own government, they may opt for partial financial assistance from FMSF where they will paid the remaining balance on their national fund, or they may opt for FMSF as a loan, which they eventually would want to pay back all the funding by themselves, for this part, you will need to make inquiry within your own government

5- Now the part which your have highlighted in your quote

This part is only indicating the advance payment/down payment which is required to be paid at the time of placement of orders its a general practice & this 170 is ~30% of total price of $ 571.2 million for 9 AH-1z ordered

This part indicate the advance payment is coming out of FMSF, if they are other national funding option, they will list other option instead of FMSF. For example. For the Raytheon Integrated Defence System, the US Navy is paying out from their own pocket, it listed research, development, test and evaluation (Navy) funds as the source.

This part is only indicating that non of the ordered AH-1z would be received in the financial year therefore the advance amount would not be realized during the same fiscal year

I don't know how you are getting the expression that this sentence in indicating about the FOREIGN MILITARY FINANCING FACILITY extended for Pakistan for this deal .... plz keep in mind its a government to government deal therefore US government is placing orders & paying finance to the manufacturer on behalf of Pakistani Government which is not dealing with the manufacturer DIRECTLY
[/quote]

You need to understand this is a contract, the accomplishment of a contract is to set thing in motion, funding allocation is done after the contract being awarded. And work will start once funding is awarded.

This deal is a FMS deal, and as per the US Department of Defence Website, the funding is coming out of the Foreign Military Sale Finance, as I said, I don't know if Pakistani government were intended to extend this as a grant or a simple loan. As this is Pakistani government decision. But as such, this is listed in the DoD contract as a FMF sales.

FMF sales also included in FMS to Pakistan, as explained in Previous post, it is not of FMF/DCC program.
 

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