Pakistan Army Aviation Corps - Updated

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

There's no chance for Rooivalk. We can manage the same upload thing by increasing the units. Like we always did. Ex:Jf-17 thunder. We need an potent & agile aircraft which proves to be effective in war scenarios.

Z-10 is a fine choice. We must go for T-129 in one case if Pakistan is planning to start co-production with full TOT then it would be a fair choice otherwise z-10 would be an easy go. Even in war time we can maintain our numbers in no time.

Numbers will never compensate for heavier payload. With more units, you require more fuel, sorties as well as maintenance people to ensure that those numbers compensate for a heavy gunship. In a single sortie a Rooivalk can deploy 16 ATGM. In fact, that very same single Rooivalk can carry 16 ATGM and ferry a millimeter wave radar on its top rotor. Pulling off similar capabilities aboard smaller helicopters would necessitate more flying units to provide payload and possibly a scout or two to carry the radar.

Anyways, the heavier payload wasn't the Rooivalk's only advantage. With the Rooivalk, we also have the fact that it shares the engines, rotors and gearbox as the Super Puma transport helicopter. The Pakistan MoDP was apparently interested in Pumas built in Romania, and the only Pumas coming out of Romania are Super Pumas. Such level of commonality is a major advantage in its own right - common logistics and maintenance channel, single investment (in infrastructure) supporting two different platforms, and a chance to localize a lot of it via ToT.

 

[mikaal hassan]

Numbers will never compensate for heavier payload. With more units, you require more fuel, sorties as well as maintenance people to ensure that those numbers compensate for a heavy gunship. In a single sortie a Rooivalk can deploy 16 ATGM. In fact, that very same single Rooivalk can carry 16 ATGM and ferry a millimeter wave radar on its top rotor. Pulling off similar capabilities aboard smaller helicopters would necessitate more flying units to provide payload and possibly a scout or two to carry the radar.

Anyways, the heavier payload wasn't the Rooivalk's only advantage. With the Rooivalk, we also have the fact that it shares the engines, rotors and gearbox as the Super Puma transport helicopter. The Pakistan MoDP was apparently interested in Pumas built in Romania, and the only Pumas coming out of Romania are Super Pumas. Such level of commonality is a major advantage in its own right - common logistics and maintenance channel, single investment (in infrastructure) supporting two different platforms, and a chance to localize a lot of it via ToT.

B
WE should discuss Rooivalk and super puma as a combine package in a separate thread then a lot guys filling up this this thread wont keep going back to same old thing again and again .

 

[Arsalan]

I think a great approach would be to procure 15 T-129 in the short-term. The PAA can utilize the hot-and-high performance element and station them in the Northern Areas. I'm not sure where the Z-10 stands, it didn't take part in the latest March 23 Parade (@Arsalan ?). Building upon the T-129 program, work with Aselsan and Roketsan to integrate the T-129's electronics, sensor pod, countermeasures and weapons to the Rooivalk Mk2. From there, gradually add more T-129s (e.g. bring the fleet up to 45) and pivot to the Rooivalk Mk2 once in full-swing.

NO sir it was not there in 23rd March parade. Should we take this as an indicator that PA have lost its interest in the gunship at least for now is something i am not sure about. The two were here as a gift with an intention that these are to be evaluated and put to test in actual combat. There were a few glitches reported as well. It might be a case that these were sent back with some recommended modification and will return back and may well be accompanied or joined later by few others as well.

i highly doubt pakistan would go for the rooivalk. sure its based of the puma which pakistan operates but that in all brings very little as pakistan would only be familiar with the parts and thats it, and even then they would be modified.

the z10 is the more sensible solution due to price(not known but defiantly lower than the rooivalk)
the t129 is a good chopper but the engine issue is still sketchy.

I agree. I also doubt that Pakistan will go for Rooivalk.

However i cannot disagree when @Bilal Khan (Quwa) here says that Rooivalk will make a lot of sense and will be an excellent platform for us.

1. It is a heavy chopper, meaning more fire power
2. It have lot of commonality with Puma and we can make Puma (newer versions) our next main medium lift helicopter. It is an excellent platform and can serve with Navy too.
3. Puma and Rooivalk as a combined complete package will be EXCLLENT. We can setup a shop here for repair, maintenance and even upgrades and that can take care the bulk of our rotary aircraft fleet under one roof.
   
4. South Africans can be an excellent partner in defense sector. They have a huge number of goodies to offer, SAM, Artiller, MARPS, IFVs/APC and this gunship. To be honest, it looks like Pakistan might not be going for anything from this list but that do not means that we SHOULD NOT. There is a lot to gain there. I hope the concerned authorities are evaluating this potential as well.

 

[fatman17]

Air Transportation: Pakistan Buys The Best For SAR

April 18, 2017: Pakistan has quietly ordered four more AW139 helicopters for SAR (search and rescue) and Medevac (medical evacuation) missions in high altitude areas. The AW139 has demonstrated the ability to operate like that and has been ordered by dozens of nations because of those capabilities. With the continued counter-terror operations in Pakistan it’s no surprise that Pakistan is buying more equipment best suited for use in the high-altitude areas along the Afghan border where there has been the most Islamic terrorist activity. The Pakistan government already uses some AW139s for SAR and Medevac but this latest order is specifically for the military.

AW139 transport helicopters are built by Anglo-Italian firm AgustaWestland. AW139s cost $20 million and up each depending on accessories and support contracts. These eight ton choppers carry up to 15 passengers and can get by with just one pilot. They have a very large cabin and can hold up to four stretchers, which is one reason it is so popular for medevac. Cruise speed is 288 kilometers an hour and endurance averages 3.2 hours. The AW149, a military version of the AW139, is also available but is more expensive. The AW139 competes with the U.S. UH-60 and another European helicopter, the slightly larger NH90. Entering service in 2003 nearly 800 AW139s have been delivered or are on order.

 

[Zarvan]

Air Transportation: Pakistan Buys The Best For SAR

April 18, 2017: Pakistan has quietly ordered four more AW139 helicopters for SAR (search and rescue) and Medevac (medical evacuation) missions in high altitude areas. The AW139 has demonstrated the ability to operate like that and has been ordered by dozens of nations because of those capabilities. With the continued counter-terror operations in Pakistan it’s no surprise that Pakistan is buying more equipment best suited for use in the high-altitude areas along the Afghan border where there has been the most Islamic terrorist activity. The Pakistan government already uses some AW139s for SAR and Medevac but this latest order is specifically for the military.

AW139 transport helicopters are built by Anglo-Italian firm AgustaWestland. AW139s cost $20 million and up each depending on accessories and support contracts. These eight ton choppers carry up to 15 passengers and can get by with just one pilot. They have a very large cabin and can hold up to four stretchers, which is one reason it is so popular for medevac. Cruise speed is 288 kilometers an hour and endurance averages 3.2 hours. The AW149, a military version of the AW139, is also available but is more expensive. The AW139 competes with the U.S. UH-60 and another European helicopter, the slightly larger NH90. Entering service in 2003 nearly 800 AW139s have been delivered or are on order.

How many times this news will get repeated and when we would know the exact number which we ordered

 

[fatman17]

04 APR 2017

Russian Helicopters has made its first Mi-171E helicopter delivery to Pakistan
The reconfigurable version of the Mi-171E allows to use it as a transport aircraft and in the VIP configuration



Russian Helicopters has made its first Mi-171E civil multirole helicopter delivery to Pakistan.

Under the terms of the contract, the reconfigurable version of the Mi-171E was manufactured to allow for its use both as a transport aircraft and in the VIP cabin configuration.

As a transport aircraft, the Mi-171E is capable of carrying up to 27 passengers in the jump seats and up to four tons of cargo inside the cargo cabin or on the external sling. In the VIP cabin configuration the helicopter accommodates 13 passengers plus a flight attendant.

Installation of the SAR equipment set, consisting of the LPG-150 winch and the TSL-1600 searchlight, further expands the scope of possible applications of the rotorcraft, according to Russian Helicopters. It is also equipped with an early ground proximity warning system, enhancing flight safety.

The delivery comes as Russian Helicopters, part of state-owned corporation Rostec, claims increasing sales of its range of aircraft. "The number of civil aviation air operators, particularly from South Asia, who place orders with us is growing", - comments Alexander Shcherbinin, deputy CEO for marketing and business development of Russian Helicopters.

 

[fatman17]

How many times this news will get repeated and when we would know the exact number which we ordered

It says 4.

 

[Rocky rock]

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Loving that paint job and top part, none reflective paint. And brand new feeling

 

[Blue Marlin]

However i cannot disagree when @Bilal Khan (Quwa) here says that Rooivalk will make a lot of sense and will be an excellent platform for us.

1. It is a heavy chopper, meaning more fire power
2. It have lot of commonality with Puma and we can make Puma (newer versions) our next main medium lift helicopter. It is an excellent platform and can serve with Navy too.
3. Puma and Rooivalk as a combined complete package will be EXCLLENT. We can setup a shop here for repair, maintenance and even upgrades and that can take care the bulk of our rotary aircraft fleet under one roof.
   
4. South Africans can be an excellent partner in defense sector. They have a huge number of goodies to offer, SAM, Artiller, MARPS, IFVs/APC and this gunship. To be honest, it looks like Pakistan might not be going for anything from this list but that do not means that we SHOULD NOT. There is a lot to gain there. I hope the concerned authorities are evaluating this potential as well.

it is a heavy chopper but an untested one at that. the chinese are most likely working on a more powerful engine to allow the z10 to hold 16 atgm's as opposed to the current 8 it can carry. it just a matter of time. the z10 is perfect for pakistan. price....... china will beat the competition and pakistan hold's a certain prestige as they (pakistan) are using chinese choppers actively in wot. just like how bell were doing back filps when they got the order for pakistans zulu's which aided them in attempting to makes sales elsewhere, an example being in poland and other places. also it servers as an advertisement too.

from what i gathered from game.invade the puma's have an over heating issue hence the purchase of the aw139.
personally i wont even go for it, the design is old and inefficient. personally i would invest in some form of co-producing the aw-139 in pakistan. pakistan easily needs 200 at least spread to the 3 armed services, police, ambulance, vip transport, private purchase etc.........

south africa has a very good defence industry, the a-darter being my favourite weapon from SA.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

How Many more of these Mi-17IE will we get???

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

it is a heavy chopper but an untested one at that. the chinese are most likely working on a more powerful engine to allow the z10 to hold 16 atgm's as opposed to the current 8 it can carry. it just a matter of time. the z10 is perfect for pakistan. price....... china will beat the competition and pakistan hold's a certain prestige as they (pakistan) are using chinese choppers actively in wot. just like how bell were doing back filps when they got the order for pakistans zulu's which aided them in attempting to makes sales elsewhere, an example being in poland and other places. also it servers as an advertisement too.

from what i gathered from game.invade the puma's have an over heating issue hence the purchase of the aw139.
personally i wont even go for it, the design is old and inefficient. personally i would invest in some form of co-producing the aw-139 in pakistan. pakistan easily needs 200 at least spread to the 3 armed services, police, ambulance, vip transport, private purchase etc.........

south africa has a very good defence industry, the a-darter being my favourite weapon from SA.

The Rooivalk was used in peacekeeping operations over the DRC. In fact, Denel said that it was because of the DRC mission that the Rooivalk began receiving outside interest again, and hence the push from Denel and the SA Gov't to revive the program via the Rooivalk Mk2.

 

[Blue Marlin]

The Rooivalk was used in peacekeeping operations over the DRC. In fact, Denel said that it was because of the DRC mission that the Rooivalk began receiving outside interest again, and hence the push from Denel and the SA Gov't to revive the program via the Rooivalk Mk2.

well one needs to figure out which countries would be interested in rooivalk-2, my money is on the gcc. and they would want some form of tech transfer, like what the saudis did with the an132. speaking of the saudis, i wont be surprised if it is them with the interest.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

well one needs to figure out which countries would be interested in rooivalk-2, my money is on the gcc. and they would want some form of tech transfer, like what the saudis did with the an132. speaking of the saudis, i wont be surprised if it is them with the interest.

IMO that as it may, it might be a lost opportunity to not grab this program. Denel's language on the Rooivalk Mk2 suggests the door to partner are open, and in turn, so are the benefits on offer (e.g. ToT). We might assume China and Turkey will provide ToT, but South Africa is promising it in the open and in a very general way (e.g. "set up an attack helicopter industry in the buying country").

 

[mikaal hassan]

The Rooivalk was used in peacekeeping operations over the DRC. In fact, Denel said that it was because of the DRC mission that the Rooivalk began receiving outside interest again, and hence the push from Denel and the SA Gov't to revive the program via the Rooivalk Mk2.

Bilal Khan Sir have you heard of any heating issues with the puma helicopters ? because i havent heard of any heating issues otherwise oil drilling companies would have stopped using them long time ago ..