Pakistan Army Aviation Corps - Updated

[JK!]

What does the future hold for SA330 in Pakistani service? Is there scope to transition to the H125 and consider Rooivalk alongside it?

 

[fatman17]

What does the future hold for SA330 in Pakistani service? Is there scope to transition to the H125 and consider Rooivalk alongside it?

I doubt it. more MI17s and Cobra AH1Zs in my opinion. There are issues with WZ10 and the Turkish T129 may have issues with 3rd party NOCs.

 

[mikaal hassan]

I have got a question what if instead of getting AH -1z viper for a almost 1 billion dollar why Pakistan army didn't go for South African roovialk ...it could have been a similar project like jf17 start from basic and keep upgrading ....why spend 1 billon dollar on usa helicopters which you can't even upgrade now specially With India getting apache ...plus all three services could have added puma helicopters by combining both helicopters for full or partial TOT as a package from South Africa too saving money...

 

[touqeer haq]

I have got a question what if instead of getting AH -1z viper for a almost 1 billion dollar why Pakistan army didn't go for South African roovialk ...it could have been a similar project like jf17 start from basic and keep upgrading ....why spend 1 billon dollar on usa helicopters which you can't even upgrade now specially With India getting apache ...plus all three services could have added puma helicopters by combining both helicopters for full or partial TOT as a package from South Africa too saving money...

Well it's coming under foreign sale assistance, and we are not paying a lot towards the payment. So, not a bad idea. Secondly American got best technology nd by getting ur hands on them, lessons can be integrated in projects with China. So, I guess getting these make sense. 1 billion is total cost of Helios, 1000 hell fire, spares, training nd technical support. Yes they are not reliable but still we will get good technology. South African Helios can't be compare.

 

[ziaulislam]

Well it's coming under foreign sale assistance, and we are not paying a lot towards the payment. So, not a bad idea. Secondly American got best technology nd by getting ur hands on them, lessons can be integrated in projects with China. So, I guess getting these make sense. 1 billion is total cost of Helios, 1000 hell fire, spares, training nd technical support. Yes they are not reliable but still we will get good technology. South African Helios can't be compare.

There is no where documented that its coming as FMF. Can you share the link/source for it. As far as general news reports it seems we are paying every cent

 

[mikaal hassan]

so we paid $975 million dollars to USA instead of taking a good opportunity to streamline a supplier for 2 different categories of helicopters and not just a simple supplier a supplier who wont stop you from upgrading the helicopters instead they will work with you to make the product better every day the big plus point as much transfer of technology you want ....then you come back to what else your 3 forces plus your civil armed forces need MRAP from south Africa your ARMY PERSONAL, RANGERS,POLICE young guys who are conducting operations every day against terrorist haven't got proper protection a lot of lives could have been saved and still can be saved ....may be senior member like MASTAN KHAN IS right the all 3 ARMED FORCES are just too busy in building and managing housing societies .....the whole package could have further added products like the g6 howitzer if it passed our test and fulfil what is required instead of another green card for f 16 scenario

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Procuring the Rooivalk, H215m and H225m wouldn't be a bad idea, but for it to work, a few major things will need to line up. Basically, Pakistan needs Airbus Helicopters' to not only approve of the Puma's engines and dynamic components (e.g. main rotor, tail rotor, gearbox, etc) for the Rooivalk, but also transfer the technology the engine maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) and dynamic components.

I believe if Pakistan gets the ability to have engine MRO and to locally manufacture the dynamic components, it would have very little trouble in locally supporting the Rooivalk, Super Puma and Caracal.

That aside, the deep commonality (engine and dynamic components) between the Rooivalk, H125m (Super Puma) and H225m (Caracal) would be a major benefit. The Rooivalk can be used as a heavyweight attack helicopter to support our armour; the Super Puma can serve as a mainstay medium-lift utility helicopter; and the Caracal can serve as a naval warfare and heavy-medium utility helicopter.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think South Africans have clearly mentioned "Full Transfer of Tech"

But technically we can get similar deal with Turkey or China as well
T-129
Z-10

Are front runners

 

[JK!]

Procuring the Rooivalk, H215m and H225m wouldn't be a bad idea, but for it to work, a few major things will need to line up. Basically, Pakistan needs Airbus Helicopters' to not only approve of the Puma's engines and dynamic components (e.g. main rotor, tail rotor, gearbox, etc) for the Rooivalk, but also transfer the technology the engine maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) and dynamic components.

I believe if Pakistan gets the ability to have engine MRO and to locally manufacture the dynamic components, it would have very little trouble in locally supporting the Rooivalk, Super Puma and Caracal.

That aside, the deep commonality (engine and dynamic components) between the Rooivalk, H125m (Super Puma) and H225m (Caracal) would be a major benefit. The Rooivalk can be used as a heavyweight attack helicopter to support our armour; the Super Puma can serve as a mainstay medium-lift utility helicopter; and the Caracal can serve as a naval warfare and heavy-medium utility helicopter.

You recently posted articles reference Embraer transport aircraft and I believe Brazil are producing Pumas under licence.

Could a South African/Brazilian option be looked into?

 

[mikaal hassan]

Procuring the Rooivalk, H215m and H225m wouldn't be a bad idea, but for it to work, a few major things will need to line up. Basically, Pakistan needs Airbus Helicopters' to not only approve of the Puma's engines and dynamic components (e.g. main rotor, tail rotor, gearbox, etc) for the Rooivalk, but also transfer the technology the engine maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) and dynamic components.

I believe if Pakistan gets the ability to have engine MRO and to locally manufacture the dynamic components, it would have very little trouble in locally supporting the Rooivalk, Super Puma and Caracal.

That aside, the deep commonality (engine and dynamic components) between the Rooivalk, H125m (Super Puma) and H225m (Caracal) would be a major benefit. The Rooivalk can be used as a heavyweight attack helicopter to support our armour; the Super Puma can serve as a mainstay medium-lift utility helicopter; and the Caracal can serve as a naval warfare and heavy-medium utility helicopter.

if you look at what airbus been trying to do from past couple of months in Romania with the revival of the production line for h215m to reduce the production cost and compete with Russian mi17 helicopters in my view it is possible ...last year business report issued by airbus shows airbus only sold 23 super puma ..right now they are only concentrating on single engine light helicopters for them it will be a win win situation they can get a big customer like Pakistan who need helicopters to upgrade its ageing fleet ,, if we buy both helicopters from south africa specially the rooivalk will be a lot better option then Chinese or Turkish option

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

You recently posted articles reference Embraer transport aircraft and I believe Brazil are producing Pumas under licence.

Could a South African/Brazilian option be looked into?

Technically yes, any Airbus Helicopters licensed manufacturer could be given a production contract. However, if Pakistan slots in plans for 100+ H215m and H225m helicopters, it might want Airbus Helicopters to provide rights and technology for MRO, assembly, and parts manufacturing (especially dynamic components) to PAC.

Ultimately, airframe parts from South Africa (Rooivalk), Romania (Super Puma), Brazil (Cougar/Caracal), France (Cougar/Caracal) would be paired with those made in Pakistan.

But Pakistan will need to take it up with Airbus Helicopters first and foremost. Fortunately (for that idea), Pakistan is an Airbus Helicopters buyer, and the company even has a contact office in Pakistan.

 

[mikaal hassan]

Technically yes, any Airbus Helicopters licensed manufacturer could be given a production contract. However, if Pakistan slots in plans for 100+ H215m and H225m helicopters, it might want Airbus Helicopters to provide rights and technology for MRO, assembly, and parts manufacturing (especially dynamic components) to PAC.

Ultimately, airframe parts from South Africa (Rooivalk), Romania (Super Puma), Brazil (Cougar/Caracal), France (Cougar/Caracal) would be paired with those made in Pakistan.

But Pakistan will need to take it up with Airbus Helicopters first and foremost. Fortunately (for that idea), Pakistan is an Airbus Helicopters buyer, and the company even has a contact office in Pakistan.

Respectfully Sir do you think rooivalk will be a lot better option then Turkish or Chinese as pak army aviation department is familiar with the engines

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Respectfully Sir do you think rooivalk will be a lot better option then Turkish or Chinese as pak army aviation department is familiar with the engines

The Rooivalk is a heavier platform, it can carry more ATGM than either T-129 or Z-10. The T-129 is apparently optimized or great in hot-and-high conditions, which could be good for operations in the Northern Areas. The Z-10 is from China, and supply assurances are valuable. It is up to the Pakistan Army to pick the one with the best balance of performance, cost, availability and support to the local defence industry.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Chinese / Turkish platforms are more modern as these were recently manufactured. Latest Tech inside
The South African gunship I would imagine would be a bit step or two behind technologically

From performance prespective I expect all 3 platforms to be relatively close

Does the South African Gunship lacks advance features Digital Cockpit and Targeting system
I imagine that since it is a older platform it would have more traditional analog based systems and traditional target and shoot mechanism

T-129 bit more modern and current Technology

Z-10 Again a more modern solution

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The Chinese / Turkish platforms are more modern as these were recently manufactured. Latest Tech inside
The South African gunship I would imagine would be a bit step or two behind technologically

From performance prespective I expect all 3 platforms to be relatively close

Does the South African Gunship lacks advance features Digital Cockpit and Targeting system
I imagine that since it is a older platform it would have more traditional analog based systems and traditional target and shoot mechanism

The Rooivalk Mk2 will get updated avionics, countermeasures and EO/IR sensor.