Pakistan Army Armoured Corps makes Military history, unprecedented World Record

[JPMM]

Ok M5 was a later version of M3 developed during the war. BTW both weighed more or less 15 tons.

Pakistan used Chaffee light tanks in 65' affectionately called "Mohd. Shafee" in Pak Army then!

Pak Army used a squadron of M3 Stuart in 1965 war on the Kashmir teatre of operations.
Its reported in a map at the Pak Army Museum.
Thanks

 

[Signalian]

T-59 100 mm gun with max range of 14 miles plus

Copy of Russian t-54
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-10_tank_gun

T-59's have been upgraded to L-7 105 mm gun. T-69's have 100 mm Gun.

Tanks at 11,500 feet - The Battle for Zojila

http://www.soldier2ndlife.com/card/tanks-the-battle-for-zojila

why would you bring up IA light tank to compare with MBT of PA. There is a difference between Light Tanks and MBT's.

Hi,

Accurate fire is one thing---change the direction of turret real quick is another thing---using a variety of ammo is another---protection for the operators is another---protection from enemy fire is another---Infra red ability---correct range finders---.

The best post of the Thread so far !

The MBT offers sensors (as mentioned in quoted post -IR-NV-Range finder) which are usually found on Attack Choppers, and PA cannot deploy a Gunship 24/7 in this area. The communication is also secured in armored protection.

Psychological impact (on terrorists) as well ...

Psychological impact that tanks will chase them forever, even go to places not imagined.

This seems to be t-59 with 100 mm gun operated by Kurram Militia of fc kpk part of km,
tank troop 8-9 tanks

Looks like each unit of fc has now a tank troop along with medium/heavy artillery batteries (130-155mm)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurram_Militia

https://www.facebook.com/pages/cate...ation/Frontier-Corps-FC-KPK-1449751251907940/

Platoon: 4 tanks

Tank Company: 14 tanks

Cavalry Troop in an Armored Cavalry Squadron: 9 tanks

Tank Battalion: 58 tanks

Cavalry Squadron in an Armored Cavalry Regiment: 42 tanks

Tank Brigade: 116 (maybe 118) tanks

Troop= 4 MBT

Squadron = 3 Troops + Squadron HQ = 12 + 2 = 14 MBT

Regiment = 3 Squadrons + Regimental HQ = 42 + 2 = 44 MBT

Armored Brigade under Armored Div = 44 + 44 = 88 MBT.

Ok M5 was a later version of M3 developed during the war. BTW both weighed more or less 15 tons.

Pakistan used Chaffee light tanks in 65' affectionately called "Mohd. Shafee" in Pak Army then!

Pakistan inherited only 13 Light Stuart Tanks in 1947, which could be driven.

Tank fire is very accurate and I guess with the conflict in Pakistan and Syria the tank is born again especially in a role where it was considered quite weak.

To target enemies hiding in crooked positions at base or top of mountains, to compensate for elevation and depression of gun in mountain areas, the MBT is mobile and can shift positions to adjust its direct fire.

The L-7 105mm gun on T-59 is 52 Calibre where as 125mm gun of AK is 48 calibre, plus L-7 is rifled and rifled guns are said to have more range than smooth bore guns.

Old tank deployed probleum is how PA got it there pak army dont have heavy lifter helicopters

Helos cannot lift MBT's, heavy transport aircraft can. This T-59 is either hauled on a trailer of Supply battalion or driven.

Not a good idea

A tank is a mobile artillery piece and should not be deployed in a circumstance where’s it unqiue advantage is nullified

If you are going to use a tank as a fixed artillery piece something is wrong

However it’s only one tank not a entire division and it’s old version

as such it provides a good learning and training experience most likely firing in a downward elevation something tanks rarely do and this is why it was probably deployed there in the first place

A few corrections to your post:

1. The tank version is not old, its upgraded and has quite alot of sensors installed in it.
2. Its not being used as "artillery piece", since artillery offers indirect fire and tank offers direct fire.
3. The tank is not deployed for training and excercise, the tank has been deployed in real combat situation.
4. The tank still retains all its advantages of mobility, firepower and fire power, although mobility maybe limited but not nullified.

No to forget the valueable experience that comes from firing at those long ranges in windy conditions, the elevation and trajectory calculations have to be really accurate.

Fire control system is installed.

This is something ingenious. Just mount some thermal imaging of not already there and voila. Even dumb munition can work in a precise manner . @Signalian it won't be wrong if I call it a sniper tank?

Did you know that NV equipment and FCS in PA T-59 and T-69 were installed prior to year 2000/2001 ?
I had a chance to acquaint myself with T-69's of 56 Cavalry deployed with 17 Infantry Division during my cadet days. An ant crawling infront of the tank could be seen at night.

Protection from wind, yes but warm inside a metal tank not possible unless it's properly heated by continually running the engine

MBT's have heaters and modern ones used in desert have AC's.

This is sad, R&D should be done to build proper sleeping barracks to protect against frost ... but good for now

have you seen igloos in Siachen ? There is proper covering and clothing on LOC and other mountains too.

It is good but it is better to deploy snipers and ordinary portable artillery at such places as they are much easy to move than tanks

The artillery is deployed in the rear and used as supporting arm for Indirect fire, over the horizon. This tank is to give direct fire power with 105 mm apart from 12.7mm , 7.62mm and 5.56mm guns deployed with infantry.

Don't be in any doubt, this tank and this position are being covered by PA artillery also.

A noob question,
How they start up the engine at such freezing temperature? If the tank is deployed in fix position, it still need to have its hydraulics and electronics working to engage the target, what is the power source, if engine is powered off?
@Dazzler @DESERT FIGHTER @Horus

Thank you in advance

@blueazure Your department

Winter Camo to ni hai ispe???

Sir, enemy has RPG and has to come with in 200-600m range of MBT to destroy it. so even if MBT is detected, it cannot be taken out easily. Not sure if enemy possesses mortars but if enemy uses mortar (60mm or 81mm), it wont do much effect and will be countered with artillery fire from PA.

Plus the MBT is standing there to be seen by the enemy, no point hiding it

 

[Thorough Pro]

This tread is not about india or Indian Army, why don't you shut up and **** off to your lolo land

Care or don't care. We have been there, done that, and that too more that 70 years ago. So neither is it unprecedented, nor is it military history.

 

[blueazure]

how does an AFV operate at sub zero temp ; -

1 . engine start , = fuel warmers / oil pre heaters ( ever seen a pre heat switch in old corolla diesels with 2C and 4C engines ? ) . tank pre-heaters are quiet power ful mind you,,,

2 . main gun / electronics / computer/ control = dont really need the engine for that .

main gun is manual loaded on the t 59 . so is the firing operation ( think of the 9mm pistol , charge the weapon and squeeze the trigger ,no power needed ) .

electronics / ballistic computer etc can easily manage on the APU power .


now the question, how to traverse the turret ? for full power traverse in battle conditions, we need the engine ( traverse is smooth as a power steering with engine ON ) , however, with engine off, there are manual levers .. i dont remember exactly, around 650 turns of the lever to rotate the turret complete 360 degree for the t 59 .. hard work really


a tank is basically like a hybrid prius vehicle , ( albeit with guns ). engine is primarily the mover, while batteries power the rest. engine is on need basis

 

[Osiris]

This tread is not about india or Indian Army, why don't you shut up and **** off to your lolo land

No this thread is about claiming, that Pakistan has created military history or has done some thing unprecedented, as the threat title claims. Which it hasn't. It has all been done before.

 

[Maxpane]

very informative comments

 

[Cuirassier]

No this thread is about claiming, that Pakistan has created military history or has done some thing unprecedented, as the threat title claims. Which it hasn't. It has all been done before.

Thanks for debunking this scandal, now you can feel better.

 

[blueazure]

No this thread is about claiming, that Pakistan has created military history or has done some thing unprecedented, as the threat title claims. Which it hasn't. It has all been done before.

what PA has done is to fence the porous afghan border and even put tanks at 12,k feet

only to ensure that afghan scum paid and trained by your agencies dont cross over

happy ?

 

[Solomon2]

It's not about criticizing the military but what you're criticizing them over.

Not really, I'm just more direct. For example, shortly after this "unprecedented world record" was trumpeted a story was posted here at PDF about how the PLA, facing similar tasks, deploys both tanks and howitzers. (No, I did not know about the PLA story when I posted my earlier comment.)

You can argue that it wasn't a direct criticism by the Chinese, and maybe it wasn't even meant that way at all, but that's how the Chinese like to send signals to their allies: indirect and deniable. But it can still be read as an implicit criticism of the Pakistani Army's stunt here - and by an ally that Pakistanis are, in effect, forbidden to criticize, right?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Not really, I'm just more direct. For example, shortly after this "unprecedented world record" was trumpeted a story was posted here at PDF about how the PLA, facing similar tasks, deploys both tanks and howitzers. (No, I did not know about the PLA story when I posted my earlier comment.)

You can argue that it wasn't a direct criticism by the Chinese, and maybe it wasn't even meant that way at all, but that's how the Chinese like to send signals to their allies: indirect and deniable. But it can still be read as an implicit criticism of the Pakistani Army's stunt here - and by an ally that Pakistanis are, in effect, forbidden to criticize, right?

It's not your criticism of the claimed 'world record' that is the issue, it is your criticism of Pakistan enacting border control measures on the internationally recognized Afghan-Pakistan border because the Afghan's have some ludicrous claims on Pakistani territory based on some fanciful past. You choose to continuously dredge up this bogeyman over the Afghan-Pakistan border despite Pakistan's case being crystal clear under international law and Pakistan's position being recognized by the UN and almost every other country in the world.

With respect to the Chinese posting about their own accomplishments regarding deployment of armor and artillery at heights, I just see that as a continuation of the boasting many nations engage in. Not sure why you see it as some sort of implicit or explicit criticism of Pakistan.

 

[Solomon2]

It's not your criticism of the claimed 'world record' that is the issue, it is your criticism of Pakistan enacting border control measures on the internationally recognized Afghan-Pakistan border -

I wasn't criticizing Pakistan but the Pakistani Army. For undertaking an act with bilateral political implications apparently without consulting the political leadership first. Do you really want to provoke another Kargil?

...After the war, Nawaz Sharif, Prime Minister of Pakistan during the Kargil conflict, claimed that he was unaware of the plans, and that he first learned about the situation when he received an urgent phone call from Atal Bihari Vajpayee, his counterpart in India...The morale of Pakistan forces after the withdrawal declined as many units of the Northern Light Infantry suffered heavy casualties.[32][140] The government refused to accept the dead bodies of many officers...With Sharif placing the onus of the Kargil attacks squarely on the army chief Pervez Musharraf, there was an atmosphere of uneasiness between the two. On 12 October 1999, General Musharraf staged a bloodless coup d'état, ousting Nawaz Sharif. Benazir Bhutto, an opposition leader in the parliament and former prime minister, called the Kargil War "Pakistan's greatest blunder" [Wikipedia]​

As it stands right now, if a conflict between the Afghan military and Pakistan military does break out over this the Pakistani military will be left without political support and will be blamed for the conflict, regardless of who's where on the "internationally recognized Afghan-Pakistan border." It'll be 1999 all over again - but with less sympathy for Pakistan than before.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I wasn't criticizing Pakistan but the Pakistani Army. For undertaking an act with bilateral political implications apparently without consulting the political leadership first.

Why do you think the political leadership wasn't consulted with respect to any and all border enforcement actions along the Afghan-Pakistan border? And unlike Kargil, border enforcement actions on the Afghan-Pakistan border are along an internationally recognized border.

 

[Solomon2]

Why do you think the political leadership wasn't consulted -

Is there a public endorsement of this action from the political leadership? I didn't find one.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Is there a public endorsement of this action from the political leadership? I didn't find one.

The Army and paramilitary forces are entrusted with managing that border by the political leadership (deployment of the military by the political leadership for counter terrorism) - all border enforcement actions flow from that authority.

The Pakistani political leadership has in fact supported the border fence in talks with the US, and even suggested that the US contribute towards part of the construction, at least on the Afghan side.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...mp-to-help-fund-border-fence-with-afghanistan

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Is there a public endorsement of this action from the political leadership? I didn't find one.

Question is why is that a matter of concern for u? who is Enemy of Pakistan and Islam specially?