Pakistan Army APC Inventory

[Signalian]

This is whats happening to Saudi coalition IFV's, APC's and MRAP's in yemen war. One of the problem i see is that infantry is not combing the area on foot. Solitary vehicles are becoming easy targets.

When we discussed PA not having a proper IFV, instead PA has APC's and uses dismounted troops for combat, is an IFV suitable for COIN war or is it wrong tactics for IFV and MRAP here?

@Ulla @Zarvan @Gryphon

 

[Inception-06]

This is whats happening to Saudi coalition IFV's, APC's and MRAP's in yemen war. One of the problem i see is that infantry is not combing the area on foot. Solitary vehicles are becoming easy targets.

When we discussed PA not having a proper IFV, instead PA has APC's and uses dismounted troops for combat, is an IFV suitable for COIN war or is it wrong tactics for IFV and MRAP here?

@Ulla @Zarvan @Gryphon

I say:wrong tactics for IFV and MRAP here !

A impressiv Video, very enjoybale !

In my opinion:

- the Vehicles should have been on distance from the villages
- vehicles onboard scouting and observing systems must be used to locate and check the area for targets
- not all vehicles should drive at the same time and route in the area should try to attack always from 2-3 sides
- mass of vehicles must stay in the background and try to use board guns/weapons to pin down enemy infantry from long range
-an advantage of long-range onboard weapons was not used
- Infantry must dismount and try to locate targets for the vehicles heavy board weapons
-smoke grenades and tubes were not used
-even when the vehicles didd came under fire they dont move and try to finde a new defensive position

 

[DavidSling]

This is whats happening to Saudi coalition IFV's, APC's and MRAP's in yemen war. One of the problem i see is that infantry is not combing the area on foot. Solitary vehicles are becoming easy targets.

When we discussed PA not having a proper IFV, instead PA has APC's and uses dismounted troops for combat, is an IFV suitable for COIN war or is it wrong tactics for IFV and MRAP here?

@Ulla @Zarvan @Gryphon

Should get themselves some APS and mine detector on their vehicles
equivelent in the Israeli army

Namer IFV/APC with Trophy APS

Mine detector

Also, infantry brigade should be integrated into the armored core.

 

[GriffinsRule]

In urban warfare, that is bound to happen, no matter how advanced your platforms are. Just too many places to ambush using shoot and scoot tactics. Not all terrain is conducive to armor, especially without infantry to support them. Some of these vehicles might have been abandoned after breaking down as well.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

They certainly are wasting oil money.

 

[Gryphon]

This is whats happening to Saudi coalition IFV's, APC's and MRAP's in yemen war. One of the problem i see is that infantry is not combing the area on foot. Solitary vehicles are becoming easy targets.

When we discussed PA not having a proper IFV, instead PA has APC's and uses dismounted troops for combat, is an IFV suitable for COIN war or is it wrong tactics for IFV and MRAP here?

@Ulla @Zarvan @Gryphon

I think @Ulla has provided an appropriate answer.

In FATA, PA uses attached sand bags to cover the sensitive sides of APC's. And sometimes cage armour.

IMO, several new IABG's with modern MBT's and tracked IFV's are required for eastern border to launch counter-offensives against the invading IA CSD brigades without relying entirely on LAT's/HAT's for holding some areas.

 

[AMG_12]

This is whats happening to Saudi coalition IFV's, APC's and MRAP's in yemen war. One of the problem i see is that infantry is not combing the area on foot. Solitary vehicles are becoming easy targets.

When we discussed PA not having a proper IFV, instead PA has APC's and uses dismounted troops for combat, is an IFV suitable for COIN war or is it wrong tactics for IFV and MRAP here?

@Ulla @Zarvan @Gryphon

Wrong Tactics, they'll learn it the hard way. IFVs are sitting ducks if not supplemented by Infantry in urban warfare.

 

[Inception-06]

Wrong Tactics, they'll learn it the hard way. IFVs are sitting ducks if not supplemented by Infantry in urban warfare.

@Gryphon @Signalian

@Gryphon @Signalian @Zarvan @Starlord @django Have you seen the film "Masters and commander", the first battle scene is very important, to understand my post:


Apko tori himat wi chaie dismount karne lie, lagta he ye apni jan boot piyare karte he

I think we are underestimating the Saudis, in my opinion, they now the BASIC tactics and strategies from the books, they have the equipment which you have mentioned, but that's not all what you need to motivate your infantry to dismount from your vehicles and battle the enemy. My point is, that the Saudi Soldiers are shocked and afraid when they enter the hot zones, no chance of leaving the vehicles/dismount, even a logical and coordinated communication and attack is not possible because of fear and lack of discipline. Totally opposite from the Pakistani infantry that's what I have observed since the Yemen War. So yes we can do the job against the Indian with our equipment. Training and equipment is not everything, ready to die is the way forward!

-lack of leadership

- lack of discipline

- no coordination

-no rational communication

-no experience in a live firing exercise

-no will do die and make sacrifices

 

[Gryphon]

@Gryphon @Signalian

@Gryphon @Signalian @Zarvan @Starlord @django Have you seen the film "Masters and commander", the first battel scene is very important, to understand my post:


Apko tori himat wi chaie dismount karne lie, lagta he ye apni jan boot piyare karte he

I think we are underestimating the Saudis, in my opinion, they now the BASIC tactics and strategies from the books, they have the equipment which you have mentioned, but that's not all that you need to motivate your infantry to dismount from your vehicles and battle the enemy. My point is, that the Saudi Soldiers are shocked and afraid when they enter the hot zones, no chance of leaving the vehicles/dismount, even a logical and coordinated communication and attack is not possible because of fear and lack of discipline. Totally opposite from the Pakistani infantry that's what I have observed since the Yemen War. So yes we can do the job against the Indian with our equipment. Training and equipment is not everything, ready to die is the way forward!

View attachment 448077


-lack of leadership

- lack of discipline

- no coordination

-no rational communication

-no experience in a live firing exercise

-no will do die and make sacrifices

PA is helping them with COIN training. From Al-Samsam 6 exercise

Fast rope

Dismount from vehicles

However I agree, they need to grow a pair of balls as well.

 

[AMG_12]

@Gryphon @Signalian

@Gryphon @Signalian @Zarvan @Starlord @django Have you seen the film "Masters and commander", the first battel scene is very important, to understand my post:


Apko tori himat wi chaie dismount karne lie, lagta he ye apni jan boot piyare karte he

I think we are underestimating the Saudis, in my opinion, they now the BASIC tactics and strategies from the books, they have the equipment which you have mentioned, but that's not all that you need to motivate your infantry to dismount from your vehicles and battle the enemy. My point is, that the Saudi Soldiers are shocked and afraid when they enter the hot zones, no chance of leaving the vehicles/dismount, even a logical and coordinated communication and attack is not possible because of fear and lack of discipline. Totally opposite from the Pakistani infantry that's what I have observed since the Yemen War. So yes we can do the job against the Indian with our equipment. Training and equipment is not everything, ready to die is the way forward!

View attachment 448077


-lack of leadership

- lack of discipline

- no coordination

-no rational communication

-no experience in a live firing exercise

-no will do die and make sacrifices

We too learned it the hard way when our convoys were badly ambushed in FATA and SWAT. Since our troops mobility is dependent on unprotected vehicles mainly trucks, the casualties were outstanding. Those events resulted in the reconfiguration and development of new strategies including the introduction of mobile jammers to the battlefield, aerial protection and as you mentioned, dismounted troops. The Saudi battlefield is a lot different from ours and so they've to tailor their strategies as per their terrain, the type of enemy faced and the resources at hand.

 

[Signalian]

I say:wrong tactics for IFV and MRAP here !

A impressiv Video, very enjoybale !

In my opinion:

- the Vehicles should have been on distance from the villages
- vehicles onboard scouting and observing systems must be used to locate and check the area for targets
- not all vehicles should drive at the same time and route in the area should try to attack always from 2-3 sides
- mass of vehicles must stay in the background and try to use board guns/weapons to pin down enemy infantry from long range
-an advantage of long-range onboard weapons was not used
- Infantry must dismount and try to locate targets for the vehicles heavy board weapons
-smoke grenades and tubes were not used
-even when the vehicles didd came under fire they dont move and try to finde a new defensive position

very good observation

Artillery fire Plus CAS helicopters. PA uses attack helis AH-1 with ground troops, while KSA AH-64's are no where to be seen. Lastly, apart from infantry, PA also uses SSG and other SF wings of other forces.

@Gryphon @Signalian

@Gryphon @Signalian @Zarvan @Starlord @django Have you seen the film "Masters and commander", the first battle scene is very important, to understand my post:


Apko tori himat wi chaie dismount karne lie, lagta he ye apni jan boot piyare karte he

I think we are underestimating the Saudis, in my opinion, they now the BASIC tactics and strategies from the books, they have the equipment which you have mentioned, but that's not all what you need to motivate your infantry to dismount from your vehicles and battle the enemy. My point is, that the Saudi Soldiers are shocked and afraid when they enter the hot zones, no chance of leaving the vehicles/dismount, even a logical and coordinated communication and attack is not possible because of fear and lack of discipline. Totally opposite from the Pakistani infantry that's what I have observed since the Yemen War. So yes we can do the job against the Indian with our equipment. Training and equipment is not everything, ready to die is the way forward!

View attachment 448077


-lack of leadership

- lack of discipline

- no coordination

-no rational communication

-no experience in a live firing exercise

-no will do die and make sacrifices

Very right !
Having modern equipment is no guarantee that a war can be successfully conducted. The troops have to walk into fire zone to conduct ops properly.

 

[Inception-06]

very good observation

Artillery fire Plus CAS helicopters. PA uses attack helis AH-1 with ground troops, while KSA AH-64's are no where to be seen. Lastly, apart from infantry, PA also uses SSG and other SF wings of other forces.


Very right !
Having modern equipment is no guarantee that a war can be successfully conducted. The troops have to walk into fire zone to conduct ops properly.

How much Attention the Pakistan Army is giving for the study of WW2 war history/battles/tactics/strategies ? Is this only a part of own interests and freetime or regular duty ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@Gryphon @Signalian

@Gryphon @Signalian @Zarvan @Starlord @django Have you seen the film "Masters and commander", the first battle scene is very important, to understand my post:


Apko tori himat wi chaie dismount karne lie, lagta he ye apni jan boot piyare karte he

I think we are underestimating the Saudis, in my opinion, they now the BASIC tactics and strategies from the books, they have the equipment which you have mentioned, but that's not all what you need to motivate your infantry to dismount from your vehicles and battle the enemy. My point is, that the Saudi Soldiers are shocked and afraid when they enter the hot zones, no chance of leaving the vehicles/dismount, even a logical and coordinated communication and attack is not possible because of fear and lack of discipline. Totally opposite from the Pakistani infantry that's what I have observed since the Yemen War. So yes we can do the job against the Indian with our equipment. Training and equipment is not everything, ready to die is the way forward!

View attachment 448077


-lack of leadership

- lack of discipline

- no coordination

-no rational communication

-no experience in a live firing exercise

-no will do die and make sacrifices

Pic is from ideas exhibition showcasing Talha APC’s.

 

[Inception-06]

Pic is from ideas exhibition showcasing Talha APC’s.

Yes I know, I wanted show how our Infantry can dismount, and how the saudis are doing their job !

 

[Signalian]

How much Attention the Pakistan Army is giving for the study of WW2 war history/battles/tactics/strategies ? Is this only a part of own interests and freetime or regular duty ?

from YO's course(young officer course), at start of commission throughout career to General (NDU courses), there is alot of study in Army so yes all wars are covered.