Pakistan: Armed attack targeting vehicles of Chinese company underway in Gwadar, Balochistan, Aug. 13

[JX-1]

Balochistan belongs to the people of Balochistan. We cannot colonize them in the name of bringing development and prosperity. If Baloch people want to remain backward, let them be

Balochistan is a collection of selfish sardars who would kill their own brothers for power. It is basically the wild west. Sardars will threaten state with terrorism if they are not allowed to live this way.

The state doesn't care if Baloch are so desperate to kill each other as long as they don't harm the national interest.

But this gives BLA an opportunity to indoctrinate those who have been oppressed and thrown into private jails by Sardars.

The way forward is a fundemental change in the culture of Balochistan through development and education -

But BLA, whose loyalty lies with the highest bidder (all their nationalist human rights propaganda is BS), will destroy any development in Balochistan.

This is the result of Pakistans pacifist approach. Instead of taking the fight yo the enemy’s land, Pakistan is stuck fighting a defensive hybrid war on all fronts including multiple insurgencies inside of it. These are high level attacks. But we see little to no retaliation against the real enemy and its enabler. Each such attack creates a new precedent and brings us back into the 2007 ish dark era. This is what happens when dollarkhor rulers only care about their dollars and sellout the country for dollars. Now even our “jugular vain” is increasingly becoming more anti Pakistan and pro independence.
But it’s all fine since Pakistan is “burying the past” and creating “100 years of peace”. Should send mithai with the cricket team as well.


“100 years peace” and “bury the past” playing out very nicely.

You don't have the economic power to carry out a proxy war inside enemy territory. You depend on foreign trade. Your people are more interested in real estate than industries. Until the latter changes you will not be able to build a self sufficient economy which gives you leverage to conduct proxy wars and avoid sanctions.

 

[Paji]

Indians are the most confidently incorrect people in the world.

Kashmir has been fighting Hindutva rule decades before India was even created by the British. Almost all of Gilgit Baltistan and Azad Kashmir was liberated by irregular "insurgents," mostly locals.

But like most Indians, you probably know that and are just shamelessly lifting the balls of anyone you think is remotely against Pakistan or Muslims, just like you have for the last thousand years.

India was created by the British? That is a new one.

Most of the mujahideen who "liberated" , looted and raped Kashmir in 1947-48 were Afridi and other tribesmen or Pakistani army soldiers and officers on leave.
There was certainly disaffection with Dogra rule in Kashmir, but no major armed insurgency as far as I know. On the contrary, the Baloch tribesmen had been fighting Iranian and Afghan occupation long before the Dogras got control of Kashmir and continued to fight the British after they got control of British Balochistan. In any case, the discussion was about insurgency against independent India and Pakistan, but you knew that and still chose to make an irrelevant point.

 

[S.Y.A]

If the Fauj actually acted in aid of the judiciary or genuine political leadership to root out obvious crimes by these sardars, they wouldn’t be able to continue getting back into power.

sir ji, the fauj wasnt involved initially in supporting these sardars. it went in after the rebellion by the brother of khan of kalat.

also, i would really love to know how the military support would genuine political leadership? and where exactly is that genuine political leadership?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

and where exactly is that genuine political leadership?

Political leadership that is elected via free and fair elections and grows and evolves over time.

Whether it was Fatimah Jinnah, Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman, ZA Bhutto or Imran Khan, the Fauj has undermined and destroyed EVERY single genuinely popular political leader in Pakistan, because the corrupt Junta of the Fauj cannot even consider the thought of losing its corrupt hegemony and influence over the country and its reaources.

Imran Khan was not perfect, but his rise meant that Pakistan might have the chance to start the process of evolving into a civilized democracy, rather than be left at the whims of the corrupt Sharif and Zardari families dancing and playing Musical Chairs at the command of the Fauji bugle.

 

[hussain0216]

India was created by the British? That is a new one.

Most of the mujahideen who "liberated" , looted and raped Kashmir in 1947-48 were Afridi and other tribesmen or Pakistani army soldiers and officers on leave.
There was certainly disaffection with Dogra rule in Kashmir, but no major armed insurgency as far as I know. On the contrary, the Baloch tribesmen had been fighting Iranian and Afghan occupation long before the Dogras got control of Kashmir and continued to fight the British after they got control of British Balochistan. In any case, the discussion was about insurgency against independent India and Pakistan, but you knew that and still chose to make an irrelevant point.

Kashmir has been a Muslim majority state for hundreds of years,, their was considerably hatred for hindus and the dogras

The whole purpose of partition was so that we could separate Muslim states like Kashmir from hindus

Political leadership that is elected via free and fair elections and grows and evolves over time.

Whether it was Fatimah Jinnah, Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman, ZA Bhutto or Imran Khan, the Fauj has undermined and destroyed EVERY single genuinely popular political leader in Pakistan, because the corrupt Junta of the Fauj cannot even consider the thought of losing its corrupt hegemony and influence over the country and its reaources.

Imran Khan was not perfect, but his rise meant that Pakistan might have the chance to start the process of evolving into a civilized democracy, rather than be left at the whims of the corrupt Sharif and Zardari families dancing and playing Musical Chairs at the command of the Fauji bugle.

This is exactly it,, you could make the exact same argument for Morsi in Egypt

Neither Morsi nor IK or their parties were perfect, but they were a step into the right direction that could have shaken up the politics of the State

Nothing will force change in our society like political parties being defeated year after year by IK and PTI


So the entire system got together to ensure this did not happen
You can blame the generals alone , because EVERYONE was involved from the judiciary, to all other major political parties

Change meant a loss of power for them so they ensured it came to an end

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

EVERYONE was involved from the judiciary, to all other major political parties

Everyone was involved, but this pack of hyenas has always been led by the Fauj, with its treasonous use of election rigging, extortion, blackmail, abductions, torture and murder to enforce its desired outcome.

 

[Paji]

Kashmir has been a Muslim majority state for hundreds of years,, their was considerably hatred for hindus and the dogras

For most of its history as a Muslim majority region, Kashmir was under Muslim rule. Balochistan as a Muslim majority region had also been under Muslim rule, and there was considerable hatred towards the non Baloch Muslim rulers who oppressed the Balochs. The imperial attitude of many non Baloch Pakistani Muslims towards Balochs is evident in this thread itself

The whole purpose of partition was so that we could separate Muslim states like Kashmir from hindus

That was one of the basis for the Muslim League demand for Pakistan and the Indian leaders had resigned themselves to it.

However, this principle was first betrayed by the Pakistani government when it accepted the accession of Junagadh, where the Hindu majority was far greater than the Muslim majority in Kashmir. It was again violated multiple times by the top Pakistani leadership when it encouraged Hindu majority states like Hyderabad ( Deccan), Bhopal , Jodhpur, Bikaner, etc to accede to Pakistan by offering them better "terms" than India. In any case, the vast majority of Muslims in India chose not to move to Pakistan , even though they had voted in favour of the Muslim League and its demand for Pakistan while most of the Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan were oppressed and forced to leave. Once the principle of the two nation theory had been thrown into the dustbin by Mr Jinnah himself the day Pakistan accepted the accession of Hindu majority Junagadh, the issue became about realpolitik.

Pakistan played that game badly and without any concern for Muslims in India and as a result many Muslims in Junagadh, Hyderabad and Kashmir had to suffer. If the Pakistanis had accepted the offer to not meddle with Junagadh, Hyderabad and other Hindu majority princely states in exchange for Kashmir, things would have turned out differently, but once Indian blood had been shed for Kashmir after the Maharaja signed the instrument of accession no Indian government would give up the claim on it. In short, the main reason Kashmir did not become part of Pakistan was that Mr Jinnah gamvled and used it as a pawn to get Hyderabad, Junagadh, Jodhpur, Bhopal , Bikaner, etc and his gamble failed. Pakistan lost the right to oppose the accession of Kashmir to India the day the accession of Junagadh into Pakistan was accepted.

 

[S.Y.A]

Political leadership that is elected via free and fair elections and grows and evolves over time.

Whether it was Fatimah Jinnah, Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman, ZA Bhutto or Imran Khan, the Fauj has undermined and destroyed EVERY single genuinely popular political leader in Pakistan, because the corrupt Junta of the Fauj cannot even consider the thought of losing its corrupt hegemony and influence over the country and its reaources.

Imran Khan was not perfect, but his rise meant that Pakistan might have the chance to start the process of evolving into a civilized democracy, rather than be left at the whims of the corrupt Sharif and Zardari families dancing and playing Musical Chairs at the command of the Fauji bugle.

that is at the national level. we are discussing balochistan.

 

[S.Y.A]

Whether it was Fatimah Jinnah, Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman, ZA Bhutto or Imran Khan, the Fauj has undermined and destroyed EVERY single genuinely popular political leader in Pakistan,

except that bhutto wasnt a genuine political leader. he turned into a dictator who ended govts in balochistan and kpk, made treason cases against them and launched an operation in balochistan, stopped ironically by zia ul haq. in the rest of pakistan, he killed, kidnapped and otherwise suppressed his opponents through FSF. implemented a civilian martial law and wanted the military to kill protesters. he enjoyed complete power up to 1976. the guy was a petty tyrant. his situation cannot, in any case, be compared to fatima jinnah, nawaz, imran khan and even his daughter, benazir.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

except that bhutto wasnt a genuine political leader. he turned into a dictator who ended govts in balochistan and kpk, made treason cases against them and launched an operation in balochistan, stopped ironically by zia ul haq. in the rest of pakistan, he killed, kidnapped and otherwise suppressed his opponents through FSF. implemented a civilian martial law and wanted the military to kill protesters. he enjoyed complete power up to 1976. the guy was a petty tyrant. his situation cannot, in any case, be compared to fatima jinnah, nawaz, imran khan and even his daughter, benazir.

You’re missing the point - don’t just focus on one individual and ignore the pattern of the Fauj in repeatedly destroying the democratic process and setting the country back to the beginning each time.

that is at the national level. we are discussing balochistan.

For democracy to evolve, that applies across the board.

 

[Olympus81]

Mods can we ban the Indians from the thread. They’ve been peddling so much lies about Kashmir. Read up on the massacres by Indian army in Jammu. Muslim majority Jammu was turned into a minority overnight. There is a reason Kashmiris don’t like India and she refuses to hold a plebiscite.

 

[Paji]

Mods can we ban the Indians from the thread. They’ve been peddling so much lies about Kashmir. Read up on the massacres by Indian army in Jammu. Muslim majority Jammu was turned into a minority overnight. There is a reason Kashmiris don’t like India and she refuses to hold a plebiscite.

It is easy to ban someone when the facts are against you.
As far as the referendum is concerned, the Maharaja had the power to decide which state to accede to and India didn't require any other legal basis for her claim to Kashmir. If you want to cry about the UN resolution on the plebiscite, you should at least read it. The first prerequisite condition was that Pakistan had to withdraw all regular and irregular forces and subsequently India was allowed to retain enough troops in undivided J&K to maintain law and order. Only then was a referendum supposed to be held. Since Pakistan never withdrew troops, no referendum was ever held.

In any case, much water has flown down the river since the UN resolution. Pakistan has annexed Gilgit and Batlistan and ceded Aksai Chen to China. At the least, Pakistani and Chinese troops need to withdraw from all territories that were part of the princely state and Indian troops need to take over law and order there before the UN resolution can be relevant. The plebiscite could only be held once India had control over all the territory of J&K ruled by the Maharaja.

Even then, the UN resolution is now obsolete.There have been multiple wars fought over Kashmir and Pakistan has signed the Simla agreement which stipulates that the issue has to be solved through bilateral negotiation. There has also been demographic changes on both sides of the LoC . Pakistan had multiple chances to get Kashmir through negotiations in 1947 but spurned all those opportunities because she wanted Hyderabad which was far richer and had far more resources than Kashmir. Now it is too late .

 

[S.Y.A]

Pakistan has annexed Gilgit and Batlistan

lol, the GB people revolted on their own before pakistan came into being, and acceded to pakistan after its creation.

 

[Paji]

lol, the GB people revolted on their own before pakistan came into being, and acceded to pakistan after its creation.

Seems you are completely ignorant about history. Gilgit and Batlistan were under the rule of Maharaja Hari Singh. They were part of the dispute referred to the UN and about which the UN passed a resolution. Only the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir had the legal authority to accede them to Pakistan, which he didn't. Under what legal basis were they severed from Jammu and Kashmir and incorporated into Pakistan?

 

[VkdIndian]

It is easy to ban someone when the facts are against you.

This is the first demand here if someone comes with solid argument.

Either they resort to foul language or demand a ban.

99.999% haven’t read the UN resolution about plebiscite. They have no idea about what was required to be done before plebiscite could be undertaken, but plebiscite inko chahiye.