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Pakistan and France sign MoU on technical collaboration for JF-17 Thunder

The French were looking at USD 40 Billion from India which could never have materialised. What they got is not even half hence they invested in the Tejas, but that would not give them much as all that needs to be reinvested in India.

Dassault never considered the Cold War to end this soon while developing Rafales. To make matters worse Economic Crisis hit them even harder than their rival Euro Fighter Typhoon. This gave rise to the market of single engine aircraft, which fell on F-16's and Gripen which are expensive and sanction prone..

PAF has a product that can fill this role, unfortunately it does not have western technology. This opens up a ready made option for those companies that are interested in encashing. So Pakistan can see France and possibly other European countries joining in the near future.

Hi,

The problem with the French is that they are very POOR SALES PEOPLE & very poor in MARKETING their product----. They are equally clueless in the fine arts of sales and deal making.

But that is not the whole story---the onus falls on the buyer of the product as well---. They need to look beyond the fanfare, sales pitches and all the ra ra ra---.

The French also scored a massive deal for supplying train electric locomotives---and that is a huge contract as well.
 
Hi,

The problem with the French is that they are very POOR SALES PEOPLE & very poor in MARKETING their product----. They are equally clueless in the fine arts of sales and deal making.

But that is not the whole story---the onus falls on the buyer of the product as well---. They need to look beyond the fanfare, sales pitches and all the ra ra ra---.

The French also scored a massive deal for supplying train electric locomotives---and that is a huge contract as well.
Sir,
I would disagree with you regarding the French are poor sales people and are not able to market their product. French are opportunists and when they get this they also become extortionist. Libya is a prime example in recent history.

The reason for Rafales failure to make a name was due to the EU politics not French. France could not sell these jets as freely to other countries because EU would tell them if you sell them to those that were under sanctions or potential Human Right violators then Government of France and their citizens would be held responsible under the European Treaty of Human Rights.

Unfortunately France or for that matter all member states to the EU have given their sovereignty to European Union.
These cases are very important in proving EU Laws Supremacy.
  • Van Gen den Loos and Costa v ENEL make it clear that EU law is supreme because by signing the treaties member states surrendered their right to sovereignty. Therefore highlighting the continuing supremacy of EC law over conflicting national law.
  • Simmenthal and Factortame highlight the five obligations national courts have. They must:
    1. Apply community law in its entirety and protect rights which the latter confer on individuals
    2. Any provisions of national law which may conflict with community law must be set aside
    3. Any conflicting provision of current national law will be rendered automatically inapplicable
    4. Preclude the valid adoption of new national legislative measure
    5. National courts should suspend national legislation that may be incompatible with EC law until a final determination on its compatibility has been made.
Case of Van Gen den Loos opened up an entirely new concept of Direct and Indirect effect regarding EU Law on member states legal systems.

Article 4(3) Treaty of European Union – as interpreted by the ECJ
  • National courts are under a duty to interpret national law consistently with EU LAW, so far as it is possible to do so, whether or not the Directive has direct effect.
The abovementioned Article has been in discussions in British Parliament for a long time.
The British Parliamentary sovereignty is a principle of the UK constitution. It makes Parliament the supreme legal authority in the UK, which can create or end any law. Generally, the courts cannot overrule its legislation and no Parliament can pass laws that future Parliaments cannot change. Parliamentary sovereignty is the most important part of the UK constitution.

Over the years, Parliament has passed laws that limit the application of parliamentary sovereignty. These laws reflect political developments both within and outside the UK.

They include:

  • The devolution of power to bodies like the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly.
  • The Human Rights Act 1998.
  • The UK's entry to the European Union in 1973.
  • The decision to establish a UK Supreme Court in 2009, which ends the House of Lords function as the UK's final court of appeal.
These developments do not fundamentally undermine the principle of parliamentary sovereignty, since, in theory at least, Parliament could repeal any of the laws implementing these changes.

The main concept behind the Brexit campaign is to bring back complete Parliamentary Supremacy.

For further reading.
https://publiclawforeveryone.com/20...n-law-is-supreme-can-parliament-be-sovereign/

https://publiclawforeveryone.com/20...ke-control-sovereignty-and-the-brexit-debate/
 
Why do you have to keep writing these stupid/negative words in every post? Can't you come up with some positive ways to express the good news?

Why it is hurting you?? Freedom of speech buddy i can write what ever i want to...
 
I think PAC is looking to boost the power reservoir of JF17, as in future block and possible AESA, all new gadgets will be needing power so going for improved electric generating device in the fighter will ensure that we have enough power to add more powerful devices on the jet. I might be wrong but given the recent revelations on AESA for JF17, i think this was relevant update for JF17.
Regards
Leo
 
this MOU is to change the harness of RD-93, after that we will have the technology of making harness for jet engine's hots zones
Wouldn't Russians and/or Chinese could help with that.We already do overhauling of Engines used in our Mirages.
 
French have come back in full circle. Laut kay budhoo ghar ko aye.

are they offering something else like sub systems for equipment like tanks, ships, fighter jets or full systems like Ocean sub etc?
 
Looks like Chinese are impotent? Even Pakistan moving away from China from ships, helicopters etc. It shows poor qualities of Chinese defence industries. Good Move Pakistan
The Chinese defence industry has it shortcomings, and it wouldn't be very wise for Pakistan to put all its eggs in one basket.

are they offering something else like sub systems for equipment like tanks, ships, fighter jets or full systems like Ocean sub etc?
Nothing for Tanks
Not much for Fighter jets, the Indians bought their best jet
Limited potential for Helicopters
Possibility for surface vessels
Not much for subs, the Indians bought their latest one but the Marlin-class could be a future prospect.
 
The Chinese defence industry has it shortcomings, and it wouldn't be very wise for Pakistan to put all its eggs in one basket.


Nothing for Tanks
Not much for Fighter jets, the Indians bought their best jet
Limited potential for Helicopters
Not much for subs, the Indians bought their latest one but the Marlin-class could be a future prospect.

They can offer equipment for tanks APC etc with TOT our tanks have there systems.
IIR or other system for Helicopters are good to have if we go for Z-10.
Sub Systems or full Avionic package or may be engine they can offer.
Marlin is not latest sub they can offer, now Ocean sub concept is also available.

SAMS, AShM, Air to Air Missiles and other weapons can be offered or procured
 
They can offer equipment for tanks APC etc with TOT our tanks have there systems.
IIR or other system for Helicopters are good to have if we go for Z-10.
Sub Systems or full Avionic package or may be engine they can offer.
Marlin is not latest sub they can offer, now Ocean sub concept is also available.

SAMS, AShM, Air to Air Missiles and other weapons can be offered or procured
For fighter jets, the engine is where I would look.
The French allowed an MRO facility for our Mirage engines, something that will be harder to get from the Russians.
 
For fighter jets, the engine is where I would look.
The French allowed an MRO facility for our Mirage engines, something that will be harder to get from the Russians.

MRO is not hard to get if we play our cards well with Russia because RD-93 is not in league of AL-41 engine and Snecma 88 engine is under powered for JFT it will need an upgrade.
 

wiki is not reliable source, and Russia is offering upgraded version of RD-93 what France has now in it's class? For that they will have to upgrade Snecma M88 and we have to pay for it, EJ-200 seems better option for western engine for high end version of JFT.

But still if Pakistan and France agree to extend cooperation in defence sector then France have plenty to offer.
 

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