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Pakistan Air Force Transport

Upgrades Slated for Pakistani Hercules Aircraft

Mar. 17, 2014 - 01:06PM | By USMAN ANSARI |




Pakistani soldiers load relief supplies, bound for the Swat district and Buner, onto a Pakistani Air Force C-130 aircraft. (Agence France-Presse)

ISLAMABAD — An upgrade package for Pakistan’s aging C-130 Hercules transport aircraft fleet has been welcomed, with analysts saying it will allow the venerable transports to function until eventual replacement.
The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency has notified Congress of a proposed US $100 million Foreign Military Sales upgrade package for Pakistan’s Hercules transport planes. The notification states Pakistan has requested “avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft. Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support.”

In the face of “airworthiness and obsolescence issues,” the notification states the upgrade package “should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.”

The fleet is of considerable age, with five of the aircraft C-130B models and 11 C-130Es. Though the latter are “new” in terms of service with Pakistan, some are ex-Australian Vietnam War vintage that were acquired in 2005.

Except for the question of age, the fleet is suitable for requirements, says former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley..

“The fixed-wing transport fleet is adequate for the requirements placed upon it and I do not think that there will be any expansion of its role,” he said.

Adding, “Pakistan isn’t going to become involved in any long-distance military commitment. Upgrade and eventual one-for-one replacement are all that’s required.”

Analyst and former air commodore Kaiser Tufail says that process should start now.

“The PAF would do well to start looking for a C-130 replacement, starting with the oldest ones, which have outlived their utility,” he said.

The C-130s are the mainstay of the Air Force’s transport fleet, and are supplemented by four smaller Indonesian-built IPTN CN-235s, and four second-hand Il-78MP Midas multirole tanker/transports from Ukraine.
However, Tufail says that even if more of these other two types are acquired they are not capable of picking up the strain should the C-130s not be replaced.

“The CN-235 is not the right aircraft as it was meant to haul minimal loads like aircraft engines, etc., on shorter routes. It does not have the capacity to rapidly move a load of equipment for rapid deployment of a detachment of fighters, a job which two to three C-130 sorties can easily fulfill,” Tufail says.

Though the Il-78s can carry more than the C-130s, Tufail says, the plane “is an outdated, lumbering aircraft. Even an upgraded engine and a glass cockpit would not help compare to the newer C-130J models.”

There has been speculation for some time the Air Force hopes to acquire more of these heavy-lift types, though, and Tufail says an upgraded variant could be suitable, but not more of the same type currently in service.

What alternatives there are is debatable, but Tufail said even with a possible Chinese option there is the ever-resent question of finances.

“Chinese options could be explored, but in that case it might have to do more with offerings of a soft loan or other sweeteners than the aircraft capabilities, in its entirety,” he said.

Email: uansari@defensenews.com.
 
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it is better to retired c-130b model aircrafts with chinese Y-9 or purchase ex-usaf c-130H models
 
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@fatman17

so this means that we are expected to purchase newer carrier/transport aircraft's in the following 10-15 years ????

as the report mentions In the face of “airworthiness and obsolescence issues,” the notification states the upgrade package “should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.

so we are looking to place an order in like the next 6-8 years ??? :undecided:
 
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it is better to retired c-130b model aircrafts with chinese Y-9 or purchase ex-usaf c-130H models

Retiring hercs is not an option as of now, these rugged gliders are here to stay for a while as they have plenty of life left.

If bought, y-9 would compliment hercs.
 
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Retiring hercs is not an option as of now, these rugged gliders are here to stay for a while as they have plenty of life left.

If bought, y-9 would compliment hercs.
17683015.jpg
 
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Upgrades Slated for Pakistani Hercules Aircraft

March 17, 2014 | By Usman Ansari

bilde

Pakistani soldiers load relief supplies, bound for the Swat district and Buner, onto a Pakistani Air Force C-130 aircraft. (Agence France-Presse)

ISLAMABAD — An upgrade package for Pakistan’s aging C-130 Hercules transport aircraft fleet has been welcomed, with analysts saying it will allow the venerable transports to function until eventual replacement.

The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency has notified Congress of a proposed US $100 million Foreign Military Sales upgrade package for Pakistan’s Hercules transport planes. The notification states Pakistan has requested “avionics upgrades, engine management and mechanical upgrades, cargo delivery system installation, and replacement of outer wing sets on six aircraft. Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support.”

In the face of “airworthiness and obsolescence issues,” the notification states the upgrade package “should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.”

The fleet is of considerable age, with five of the aircraft C-130B models and 11 C-130Es. Though the latter are “new” in terms of service with Pakistan, some are ex-Australian Vietnam War vintage that were acquired in 2005.

Except for the question of age, the fleet is suitable for requirements, says former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley..

“The fixed-wing transport fleet is adequate for the requirements placed upon it and I do not think that there will be any expansion of its role,” he said.

Adding, “Pakistan isn’t going to become involved in any long-distance military commitment. Upgrade and eventual one-for-one replacement are all that’s required.”

Analyst and former air commodore Kaiser Tufail says that process should start now.

“The PAF would do well to start looking for a C-130 replacement, starting with the oldest ones, which have outlived their utility,” he said.

The C-130s are the mainstay of the Air Force’s transport fleet, and are supplemented by four smaller Indonesian-built IPTN CN-235s, and four second-hand Il-78MP Midas multirole tanker/transports from Ukraine.

However, Tufail says that even if more of these other two types are acquired they are not capable of picking up the strain should the C-130s not be replaced.

“The CN-235 is not the right aircraft as it was meant to haul minimal loads like aircraft engines, etc., on shorter routes. It does not have the capacity to rapidly move a load of equipment for rapid deployment of a detachment of fighters, a job which two to three C-130 sorties can easily fulfill,” Tufail says.

Though the Il-78s can carry more than the C-130s, Tufail says, the plane “is an outdated, lumbering aircraft. Even an upgraded engine and a glass cockpit would not help compare to the newer C-130J models.”

There has been speculation for some time the Air Force hopes to acquire more of these heavy-lift types, though, and Tufail says an upgraded variant could be suitable, but not more of the same type currently in service.

What alternatives there are is debatable, but Tufail said even with a possible Chinese option there is the ever-resent question of finances.

“Chinese options could be explored, but in that case it might have to do more with offerings of a soft loan or other sweeteners than the aircraft capabilities, in its entirety,” he said.

Upgrades Slated for Pakistani Hercules Aircraft | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
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I said it before these aircraft overhaul/upgrades will last 15 years at the most and than replacement would be required and what better replacement would be C-130J/better variants. Hopefully Pakistan economy would definitely be in shape to fund programs we should be hopeful. C-130 is an excellent transport platform.

Y-20 can carry twice more tonnage/load what I and many would like to see it in next 15 years order of 4-5 Y-20s and 8-10 C-130J/variants.

Hope no crisis is created in coming years as from the interview/article that IL-78 is already considered vintage even after its possible engine upgrades/glass cockpit wonderwhy...think 15 years is sufficient Y-20 and C-130J is the only good choices side by side.


These parked ones are too old if the idea is to keep PAF Herc E/H for next 15 years a the most I think C-130J would naturally come to replace these old C-130s because again I have to repeat we have 50 years of experience and infrastructure and some overhaul experience we won't require Y-9s but we would need to replace IL-78 and add more so Y-20 would definitely make sense that can carry twice.
 
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@fatman17

so this means that we are expected to purchase newer carrier/transport aircraft's in the following 10-15 years ????

as the report mentions In the face of “airworthiness and obsolescence issues,” the notification states the upgrade package “should ensure continued viability for an additional 10-15 years.

so we are looking to place an order in like the next 6-8 years ??? :undecided:

replacement of transport a/c is an expensive affair. if PAF opts for C130J then it can only happen under a combined FMS grant-aid & country funds. a new Herc costs in the USD 100m range or above. maybe in 5 years time the chinese platforms would have matured for the PAF to evaluate. the CN- spanish/indo models could be another option but these are mostly light transport. the PAF needs a all-weather workhorse like the Herc.

I said it before these aircraft overhaul/upgrades will last 15 years at the most and than replacement would be required and what better replacement would be C-130J/better variants. Hopefully Pakistan economy would definitely be in shape to fund programs we should be hopeful. C-130 is an excellent transport platform.

Y-20 can carry twice more tonnage/load what I and many would like to see it in next 15 years order of 4-5 Y-20s and 8-10 C-130J/variants.

Hope no crisis is created in coming years as from the interview/article that IL-78 is already considered vintage even after its possible engine upgrades/glass cockpit wonderwhy...think 15 years is sufficient Y-20 and C-130J is the only good choices side by side.



These parked ones are too old if the idea is to keep PAF Herc E/H for next 15 years a the most I think C-130J would naturally come to replace these old C-130s because again I have to repeat we have 50 years of experience and infrastructure and some overhaul experience we won't require Y-9s but we would need to replace IL-78 and add more so Y-20 would definitely make sense that can carry twice.

these slated upgrades would take all PAF C130's to H-standard.
 
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replacement of transport a/c is an expensive affair. if PAF opts for C130J then it can only happen under a combined FMS grant-aid & country funds. a new Herc costs in the USD 100m range or above. maybe in 5 years time the chinese platforms would have matured for the PAF to evaluate. the CN- spanish/indo models could be another option but these are mostly light transport. the PAF needs a all-weather workhorse like the Herc.



these slated upgrades would take all PAF C130's to H-standard.

Wasn't the upgrade already signed circa 2004/2005? because that's when Pakistan send a major arms list to the USA, including those Artillery, M113s, Cobra upgrades, F-16s and P3 Orions.

So why did it take so long to get the upgrades to H version for the Hercs?
 
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No matter if the upgrades are to H Standards they are ageing and 12-15 years is the max after that PAF will have to take everything out of it's pocket and pay LM for new Herc may it be C-130J stretch or non stretch version or any new variant affordable. PAF should avoid Y-9s [unless AEW&C] times are changing any money for the Chinese product should be invested in the future on Y-20s.
 
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replacement of transport a/c is an expensive affair. if PAF opts for C130J then it can only happen under a combined FMS grant-aid & country funds. a new Herc costs in the USD 100m range or above. maybe in 5 years time the chinese platforms would have matured for the PAF to evaluate. the CN- spanish/indo models could be another option but these are mostly light transport. the PAF needs a all-weather workhorse like the Herc.
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yes, I know its pretty expensive stuff thats why i was mesmerized :P

perhaps we can opt for a few C130J's but I guess the Y-20 is a viable option :) , as it is a new aircraft it would certainly meet great requirements in terms of its features as its some thing built according to current world situations and requirements, it will offer us alot more than what we may use it for now, those capabilities may be used later on....its a beast :cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:
 
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yes, I know its pretty expensive stuff thats why i was mesmerized :P

perhaps we can opt for a few C130J's but I guess the Y-20 is a viable option :) , as it is a new aircraft it would certainly meet great requirements in terms of its features as its some thing built according to current world situations and requirements, it will offer us alot more than what we may use it for now, those capabilities may be used later on....its a beast :cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:

Y-20 could be a potential candidate to replace IL-78s but there is no immediate need to replace 12 years atleast lets wait, Y-20 can't be the replacement of C-130, we can get C-130J [non stretched version] in a decade 10-15 years and shouldn't stick to older C-130H from US parked inventory.
 
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C-130 Hercules News
Pakistan - C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program
March 11, 2014 (by Lorna Jons) - The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for a C-130 Fleet Upgrade Program and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $100 million.



Pakistan Air Force L-382B Hercules #4144 from 6 Sqn seen at RIAT on 15 July 2006 sporting a special paint and wrap scheme for the Earthquake relief carried out in 2005. [Photo by Asif Shamim]

Wasn't the upgrade already signed circa 2004/2005? because that's when Pakistan send a major arms list to the USA, including those Artillery, M113s, Cobra upgrades, F-16s and P3 Orions.

So why did it take so long to get the upgrades to H version for the Hercs?

that was refurbishment and upgrade of 6 ex-Australian C-130E's - USD75m
 
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Y-20 could be a potential candidate to replace IL-78s but there is no immediate need to replace 12 years atleast lets wait, Y-20 can't be the replacement of C-130, we can get C-130J [non stretched version] in a decade 10-15 years and shouldn't stick to older C-130H from US parked inventory.

The IL-78 is an air to air refueller and a cargo plane, meanwhile the Y-20 is a transport aircraft only :(

yes indeed the C130 J is a good option but why not a few stretched ones ???
 
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The IL-78 is an air to air refueller and a cargo plane, meanwhile the Y-20 is a transport aircraft only :(

yes indeed the C130 J is a good option but why not a few stretched ones ???

Y-20 is planned program and there are reports of AWACS, cargo and JSTAR variants...I think Chinese members posted it in China Def Forum Section.

C-130J stretched version is more expensive. I read the article and it seems the men who bought CASA 235 are not happy with it they could have bought C-130s instead.
 
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