Pakistan Air Defense Systems - As of Mar -2019

[zulu]

Yup but as we talking about future mostly so soon inshaallah. Honestly its old version(still better than nothing) but if designing starts here than in future possible by ourselves giving our current for foreseen economic future

Now we getting some real input Air defense is always multi layers structure so considering our economic plus other issues,what will be the best for us ???

How strong has Pakistan's air defense system become since the introduction of the LY-80 missile system? Can it easily shoot down an Su-30MKI or a Rafale?

Modern warfare isn't that simple, a beginner with basic knowledge can easily tell LY-80 can shoot down Su-30 MKI and Rafale, by simply judging its max altitude ceiling.

But, here's where people is wrong. There is a thing called “Anti-Radiation Missile” that hunts radars. IAF Su-30 MKI comes with Kh-31P ARM having 110km range and Kh-58U ARM with 250km range. Both have terminal speed of more than Mach 3.6. It can destroy LY-80 long before Su-30MKI gets into LY-80′s engagement range of 40km. Such operations are called SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense).

How and Why?
LY-80 is powered by Semi-Active Radar Homing (SARH) guidance. SARH based SAM have both advantages and disadvantages. The guiding radar (FCR) for SARH cannot be jammed since its Land-based and hence powerful enough to counter jammings.

However, the advantage here is the disadvantage itself since SARH SAM requires continuous guidance from the surface FCR Radar which transmits waves, because SARH SAMs doesn't have integrated radar seekers.

The transmitted waves gets reflected and received by waves receiver in the SAM. It means if the ground radar is switched off, the SAM practically becomes an unguided rocket and can't home itself towards the target.

This is where ARMs comes in handy. The ARMs have the upper hand here since LY-80 FCR can't switch off its radar or it will lose the already launched SAM. LY80 can destroy lower-speed ARMs but again, Kh-31P and Kh-58U have greater chance of destroying the radar even when the ground radar is switched off in case of ARM threat, mostly because of its sheer speed of Mach 3.6 . Sorry to say this, but the remobilisation time of LY-80 radars isn't enough to escape such ARMs. By the time the radars detects the ARM, it would be too late to put back the hydraulic stabilizers of the radar truck and start the engine to remobilise.

Incase, you are wondering if LY-80 can shoot down these Russian ARMs, then you are wrong here. LY-80 can engage Mach 0.8 or 300m/s subsonic cruise missiles at 50m altitude with minimum and maximum engagement range of 3.5km and 12km respectively and success rate of 60% only in case of subsonic cruise missiles. It means the probability of successfully engaging supersonic cruise missiles by LY-80 is near zero. The Reaction Time of this SAM is also high at 12 seconds, which is not enough. While these Russian ARMs have speed above Mach 3.6 or 1.3km/s, LY-80 can only dream of shooting it down.

[Reaction Time = Time taken to search, track, identity, lock and launch]
And I don't need to tell about Rafale. Its a complete next level fighter, way more capable than Su-30 MKI in SEAD ops.

Conclusion - No, it can't destroy Su-30 MKI and Rafale. One piece of advice for LY-80 operators is abandon their radar trucks and run away if they value their life, once they get to know an ARM is approaching towards them.

Related Questions

• If Pakistan inducts an HQ-9 defense system, how strong will Pakistan's air defense be? Will it help Pakistan deny air superiority to the India...
• Why does Pakistan use Spada-2000 as the prime air defense missile system?

• What is the basic difference between LY-80 and HQ-9 missile systems

https://www.quora.com/How-strong-ha...-it-easily-shoot-down-an-Su-30MKI-or-a-Rafale
https://www.quora.com/How-strong-ha...-it-easily-shoot-down-an-Su-30MKI-or-a-Rafale

 

[The SC]

How strong has Pakistan's air defense system become since the introduction of the LY-80 missile system? Can it easily shoot down an Su-30MKI or a Rafale?

Modern warfare isn't that simple, a beginner with basic knowledge can easily tell LY-80 can shoot down Su-30 MKI and Rafale, by simply judging its max altitude ceiling.

But, here's where people is wrong. There is a thing called “Anti-Radiation Missile” that hunts radars. IAF Su-30 MKI comes with Kh-31P ARM having 110km range and Kh-58U ARM with 250km range. Both have terminal speed of more than Mach 3.6. It can destroy LY-80 long before Su-30MKI gets into LY-80′s engagement range of 40km. Such operations are called SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense).

How and Why?
LY-80 is powered by Semi-Active Radar Homing (SARH) guidance. SARH based SAM have both advantages and disadvantages. The guiding radar (FCR) for SARH cannot be jammed since its Land-based and hence powerful enough to counter jammings.

However, the advantage here is the disadvantage itself since SARH SAM requires continuous guidance from the surface FCR Radar which transmits waves, because SARH SAMs doesn't have integrated radar seekers.

The transmitted waves gets reflected and received by waves receiver in the SAM. It means if the ground radar is switched off, the SAM practically becomes an unguided rocket and can't home itself towards the target.

This is where ARMs comes in handy. The ARMs have the upper hand here since LY-80 FCR can't switch off its radar or it will lose the already launched SAM. LY80 can destroy lower-speed ARMs but again, Kh-31P and Kh-58U have greater chance of destroying the radar even when the ground radar is switched off in case of ARM threat, mostly because of its sheer speed of Mach 3.6 . Sorry to say this, but the remobilisation time of LY-80 radars isn't enough to escape such ARMs. By the time the radars detects the ARM, it would be too late to put back the hydraulic stabilizers of the radar truck and start the engine to remobilise.

Incase, you are wondering if LY-80 can shoot down these Russian ARMs, then you are wrong here. LY-80 can engage Mach 0.8 or 300m/s subsonic cruise missiles at 50m altitude with minimum and maximum engagement range of 3.5km and 12km respectively and success rate of 60% only in case of subsonic cruise missiles. It means the probability of successfully engaging supersonic cruise missiles by LY-80 is near zero. The Reaction Time of this SAM is also high at 12 seconds, which is not enough. While these Russian ARMs have speed above Mach 3.6 or 1.3km/s, LY-80 can only dream of shooting it down.

[Reaction Time = Time taken to search, track, identity, lock and launch]
And I don't need to tell about Rafale. Its a complete next level fighter, way more capable than Su-30 MKI in SEAD ops.

Conclusion - No, it can't destroy Su-30 MKI and Rafale. One piece of advice for LY-80 operators is abandon their radar trucks and run away if they value their life, once they get to know an ARM is approaching towards them.

Related Questions

• If Pakistan inducts an HQ-9 defense system, how strong will Pakistan's air defense be? Will it help Pakistan deny air superiority to the India...
• Why does Pakistan use Spada-2000 as the prime air defense missile system?

• What is the basic difference between LY-80 and HQ-9 missile systems

https://www.quora.com/How-strong-ha...-it-easily-shoot-down-an-Su-30MKI-or-a-Rafale

https://www.quora.com/How-strong-ha...-it-easily-shoot-down-an-Su-30MKI-or-a-Rafale

Conclusion..Pakistan needs the HQ-9..

 

[BHarwana]

Conclusion..Pakistan needs the HQ-9..

Why Pakistan needs HQ-9 can you also explain it technically plz?

 

[Signalian]

its not the AD keeping IAF at bay, its PAF.

 

[Signalian]

How strong has Pakistan's air defense system become since the introduction of the LY-80 missile system? Can it easily shoot down an Su-30MKI or a Rafale?

Modern warfare isn't that simple, a beginner with basic knowledge can easily tell LY-80 can shoot down Su-30 MKI and Rafale, by simply judging its max altitude ceiling.

But, here's where people is wrong. There is a thing called “Anti-Radiation Missile” that hunts radars. IAF Su-30 MKI comes with Kh-31P ARM having 110km range and Kh-58U ARM with 250km range. Both have terminal speed of more than Mach 3.6. It can destroy LY-80 long before Su-30MKI gets into LY-80′s engagement range of 40km. Such operations are called SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense).

How and Why?
LY-80 is powered by Semi-Active Radar Homing (SARH) guidance. SARH based SAM have both advantages and disadvantages. The guiding radar (FCR) for SARH cannot be jammed since its Land-based and hence powerful enough to counter jammings.

However, the advantage here is the disadvantage itself since SARH SAM requires continuous guidance from the surface FCR Radar which transmits waves, because SARH SAMs doesn't have integrated radar seekers.

The transmitted waves gets reflected and received by waves receiver in the SAM. It means if the ground radar is switched off, the SAM practically becomes an unguided rocket and can't home itself towards the target.

This is where ARMs comes in handy. The ARMs have the upper hand here since LY-80 FCR can't switch off its radar or it will lose the already launched SAM. LY80 can destroy lower-speed ARMs but again, Kh-31P and Kh-58U have greater chance of destroying the radar even when the ground radar is switched off in case of ARM threat, mostly because of its sheer speed of Mach 3.6 . Sorry to say this, but the remobilisation time of LY-80 radars isn't enough to escape such ARMs. By the time the radars detects the ARM, it would be too late to put back the hydraulic stabilizers of the radar truck and start the engine to remobilise.

Incase, you are wondering if LY-80 can shoot down these Russian ARMs, then you are wrong here. LY-80 can engage Mach 0.8 or 300m/s subsonic cruise missiles at 50m altitude with minimum and maximum engagement range of 3.5km and 12km respectively and success rate of 60% only in case of subsonic cruise missiles. It means the probability of successfully engaging supersonic cruise missiles by LY-80 is near zero. The Reaction Time of this SAM is also high at 12 seconds, which is not enough. While these Russian ARMs have speed above Mach 3.6 or 1.3km/s, LY-80 can only dream of shooting it down.

[Reaction Time = Time taken to search, track, identity, lock and launch]
And I don't need to tell about Rafale. Its a complete next level fighter, way more capable than Su-30 MKI in SEAD ops.

Conclusion - No, it can't destroy Su-30 MKI and Rafale. One piece of advice for LY-80 operators is abandon their radar trucks and run away if they value their life, once they get to know an ARM is approaching towards them.

Related Questions

• If Pakistan inducts an HQ-9 defense system, how strong will Pakistan's air defense be? Will it help Pakistan deny air superiority to the India...
• Why does Pakistan use Spada-2000 as the prime air defense missile system?

• What is the basic difference between LY-80 and HQ-9 missile systems

https://www.quora.com/How-strong-ha...-it-easily-shoot-down-an-Su-30MKI-or-a-Rafale

Whoever wrote this article has cleverly shoved the altitude point and induced the Range point to give edge to SU 30 and Rafale. Why should the LY-80 radar transmit all the time ? to invite an attack by HARM? This is not how AD Radars work. Not all AD radars are switched ON or transmitting "all the time", infact small transmissions are sent, at different frequencies and at different powers. The output power, frequency and the beam at which a radar tracks an aircraft DOES NOT have to be the same when guiding a SAM. HARM locks on the signal transmission characteristics of radar OR GPS coordinates of the radar ? Transmission characteristics, right? so when the transmission characteristics change, the incoming HARM will may lose the guidance signal coming from the radar to attract it towards itself. The wave transmitted from radar may become so weak that it may go below the tracking threshold signal level of the HARM missile guidance system.

Coming to range now, since IAF HARM's get an advantage in range so only range is discussed in this article. The range of LY-80 tracking Radar is 150 km and missile range is 40-70 km. So will the radar remain continuously ON when it detects an enemy aircraft at 140-150 km and wait patiently for the aircraft to come inside 70 km or less zone while remaining ON and transmitting all the time ? Why should it ? and No it won't. It will inform other assets in the area that an aircraft has been detected and then a decision will be taken by AD Command to bring down the enemy plane in best possible manner. Most commonly used strategy is to track the aircraft passively. Its absurd to think that IAF is flying at max stand off range of their HARM missile at 250 km flying 24 hours and looking for an opportunity for radar to go active and ON with full transmit power to attract HARM!

@Tps43 can you pitch in here please ?

 

[Super Falcon]

Pakistan does not have good air defense system in today's battlefield. PAF is more relying on the Air Force for the answer... we already witness of that

Yes we need potent long range missiles to counter IAF threats from long range and new radars

 

[blueazure]

signalian has put it right.

+1

modern SEAD is not that easy. + the over AWACed environment of pakistani airspace makes it even more difficult

for fun, watch DCS simulation attacks on S 300 batteries by strikes packages of harriers and F 16 .

its a total mess

 

[MIG21DOWN]

Whoever wrote this article has cleverly shoved the altitude point and induced the Range point to give edge to SU 30 and Rafale. Why should the LY-80 radar transmit all the time ? to invite an attack by HARM? This is not how AD Radars work. Not all AD radars are switched ON or transmitting "all the time", infact small transmissions are sent, at different frequencies and at different powers. The output power, frequency and the beam at which a radar tracks an aircraft DOES NOT have to be the same when guiding a SAM. HARM locks on the signal transmission characteristics of radar OR GPS coordinates of the radar ? Transmission characteristics, right? so when the transmission characteristics change, the incoming HARM will may lose the guidance signal coming from the radar to attract it towards itself. The wave transmitted from radar may become so weak that it may go below the tracking threshold signal level of the HARM missile guidance system.

Coming to range now, since IAF HARM's get an advantage in range so only range is discussed in this article. The range of LY-80 tracking Radar is 150 km and missile range is 40-70 km. So will the radar remain continuously ON when it detects an enemy aircraft at 140-150 km and wait patiently for the aircraft to come inside 70 km or less zone while remaining ON and transmitting all the time ? Why should it ? and No it won't. It will inform other assets in the area that an aircraft has been detected and then a decision will be taken by AD Command to bring down the enemy plane in best possible manner. Most commonly used strategy is to track the aircraft passively. Its absurd to think that IAF is flying at max stand off range of their HARM missile at 250 km flying 24 hours and looking for an opportunity for radar to go active and ON with full transmit power to attract HARM!

@Tps43 can you pitch in here please ?

Its from Quora. The biggest cesspool of cancer indian intellectuals acting like they are geniuses. Dont take it seriously.

 

[khansaheeb]

Pakistan does not have good air defense system in today's battlefield. PAF is more relying on the Air Force for the answer... we already witness of that

Always good to have a second line of defense.

 

[Tps43]

Whoever wrote this article has cleverly shoved the altitude point and induced the Range point to give edge to SU 30 and Rafale. Why should the LY-80 radar transmit all the time ? to invite an attack by HARM? This is not how AD Radars work. Not all AD radars are switched ON or transmitting "all the time", infact small transmissions are sent, at different frequencies and at different powers. The output power, frequency and the beam at which a radar tracks an aircraft DOES NOT have to be the same when guiding a SAM. HARM locks on the signal transmission characteristics of radar OR GPS coordinates of the radar ? Transmission characteristics, right? so when the transmission characteristics change, the incoming HARM will may lose the guidance signal coming from the radar to attract it towards itself. The wave transmitted from radar may become so weak that it may go below the tracking threshold signal level of the HARM missile guidance system.

Coming to range now, since IAF HARM's get an advantage in range so only range is discussed in this article. The range of LY-80 tracking Radar is 150 km and missile range is 40-70 km. So will the radar remain continuously ON when it detects an enemy aircraft at 140-150 km and wait patiently for the aircraft to come inside 70 km or less zone while remaining ON and transmitting all the time ? Why should it ? and No it won't. It will inform other assets in the area that an aircraft has been detected and then a decision will be taken by AD Command to bring down the enemy plane in best possible manner. Most commonly used strategy is to track the aircraft passively. Its absurd to think that IAF is flying at max stand off range of their HARM missile at 250 km flying 24 hours and looking for an opportunity for radar to go active and ON with full transmit power to attract HARM!

@Tps43 can you pitch in here please ?

Another thing is sensors work in pair , for there must be at least 2 sensors in same vicinity and they both operate at different feqs and regarding sams well they have mcp’s which have complete radar picture not just from sam’s sensor but other sensors as well so sams can hit targets with the help from other sensors as well and they are not limited just to their own radar

 

[Yaseen1]

best air defense is air to air combat of fighter jet as ground based air defense has limitation of range but fighter jets with good pilots can reach anywhere in less time so i think deficiency in airdefense is filled by our pilots

 

[Signalian]

Dont take it seriously.

I won't, but others will and then start saying that LY-80 is useless.

 

[Signalian]

Another thing is sensors work in pair , for there must be at least 2 sensors in same vicinity and they both operate at different feqs and regarding sams well they have mcp’s which have complete radar picture not just from sam’s sensor but other sensors as well so sams can hit targets with the help from other sensors as well and they are not limited just to their own radar

Reminds me of decoys used to lure HARM's by emitting more stronger signal than the original radar signal to attract HARM towards it and waste the HARM.

 

[ziaulislam]

LY80B is potent system but i am not sure whther we have the 40km rnage system or new advance 80km range system

 

[Arsalan]

LY80B is potent system but i am not sure whther we have the 40km rnage system or new advance 80km range system

40Km Range LY-80 (based on HQ-16A). For extended range we will have to acquire HQ-16B or its export variant.