Pakistan, a British problem, but a German solution?

[jarves]

@Aeronaut sir i think @Genesis deserves a senior member title.

 

[KingMamba]

No, let it be brah. My reply was also light heated, not serious.

Yeah but others might get mad and then thread turn into a shootout no biggy.

 

[Hassan_Ishtiaq]

Pakistan has the 6th largest population in the world (and set to increase further), if Pakistan became an industrialized country it would be one of the most powerful countries on Earth.

China is still in the developing phase as well, when we become a developed country that will be an incredible day indeed.

Pakistan can never rise. Its society is torn apart, divided. Pakistanis sell each other out in an instant.

 

[KingMamba]

Hmm, I thought people would research Germany problem, but guess not. So here's my fuller take in you will.

Prussia at the time didn't have many allies in the German areas. Austria was the undisputed king of the area, they were the official emperor a few decades ago and still the president of the German federation, or something, a German union of sorts, very weak of course, more in name that in actuality. German is the land of a thousand princes after all.


1) Diplomacy

Today Pakistan has some good relationships with middle eastern and African Muslim states, but by no means great. As to info and Malaysia, they can be more allies than in the same organization, it depends on what the situation is then.

The structure Pakistan should look to is the existent of said Muslim countries, like SA, Iraq, Afgan, Egypt and so on, but with a combined army, more centralized than NATO, but not yet one that is like one nation.

With a parliament system that Pakistan has strong influence, and decisive decision making process in ONLY SOMETHINGS like Foreign relations, economy, and such that would impact the strength and direction of a union. The culture or living style and such as well as law can be left to their own devices.

Pakistan cannot get the union with economy, that's not possible, no nation looks at a better one and say let me join, war is needed, a decisive, but a limited war. Bismark is all about not going too far, he didn't take Vienna of Austria he wanted them as his ally. Pakistan must win, but can't take any land.

Lastly this Napoleon quote that Pakistan must remember, and why this is such a risk. Pakistan cannot have a hiccup, even once, during this.

"Among the anciently established sovereigns, war aims never go beyond possession of a province or a fortress. With me, the stake is always my existence and that of the whole Empire."

and this

"My power depends on my glory," Bonaparte said, "and my glory on my victories."




2) Economy

Now let's take a look on what Pakistan must do, corruption is ok as long as it doesn't stand in the way. Right now it sort of does, but it doesn't have to. Pakistan must take advantage of China's reorganization of the economy and become industrialized, not only for taking some factories, but also shipping goods into China for the the demand.

Invest in infrastructure, education and research. This must be key for the creation of wealth and new systems.




3) Militarily, Pakistan must increase budget as the country grows, and invest in key parts, like a strong air force, a capable and highly mobile army, and a anti access navy.

This is achievable for Pakistan by investing in 4th to 4+ fighters to be made at home, helicopters either from America or from China, transport planes for the army, and a proven future soldier program to increase the survivability and offensive capability of said soldier. Offensive attack helicopters, is also key. But the key thing is mobile, to be able to strike and get out, to strike where least expected and to have the maxium amount of troops in one area to counter the Indian numerical advantage.

Like Von Meltke's thinking, rails, and roads, except now it's planes and helicopters, don't need to have the most overall, but I will always have the most in one battlefield. Example, If India uses 300,000 and Pakistan 150,000, just make sure to have the most man on one battle field, 300,000 men would be spread out, so where India has 20,000 of the 300, attack there wtih 40,000, then get out and attack another vulnerable spot when India reinforces. Play by your own pace.

Naval arm is a little hard as that's very costly, but Pakistan can have denial of access strategy, anti ship, sea mines, and a DF-21D equivalent, as well as submarines and anti air destroyers and anti sub frigates.

So key to this strategy, take Indian navy out of the fight, be mobile attack weak spots in the Indian line, air force be strong enough to take Indian force 1:1, this is the way to victory. Why air battle 1:1? Even major nations have trouble mantaining a large fleet, as long as Pakistan more or less achieve indignation of the air force fighters, it's a lot easier to achieve parity here. JF-17 very good start.



@SouthDesi @That Guy @Chinese-Dragon @KingMamba @jarves @scorpionx

I agree Pakistan does not need to accumulate territory to have influence but imho Afghanistan is the exception to the rules because of the border issue. After that is sorted out there needs to be mass industrialization and as the economy grows the military will grow as well, Pakistan already has huge influence in Islamic world despite being so down trodden so you will only see its power as it gets more advanced then it can turn to solving the kashmir dispute with said new found influence.

 

[untitled]

@Genesis

Do you know what is one the major cause of all the problems in the so called 'muslim world' ?

Each 'muslim' country looks towards the west or some neighboring power to bail it out of trouble rather than its brotherly muslim country

With this mentality you can't form a unified muslim bloc

 

[jarves]

then it can turn to solving the kashmir dispute with said new found influence.

You cannot solve Kashmir issue(unless Pakistan decides to compromise) regardless of how much influence you have.In 60's and 70's Pakistan had the support of America and was getiing millions of dollars and top quality weapons then also you were to gain IOK so why do you think you will be able to do with a organisation which is not going to be formed in the first place.

 

[scorpionx]

@Genesis

What a Pakistani thinks about your views I will leave it to them, but as an Indian I think our priorities are different. We have our own problems and Pakistanis have their own. Right now we,Indians are more consumed with the difficulties like corruptions, slow growth rate and crippled policy implementations. These are the main issues of our upcoming elections not any military threat from Pakistan. As of now, we are NOT a threat to Pakistanis, they have an enemy not from the East but within themselves. And your solution won't solve it any way.

 

[jarves]

Said ww3.

Actually he is right,Saudi Arabia has influence on Pakistan and not the other way around.Withdrawal of Pakistan from IP pipeline and Saudi Arabia signing defence cooperation with India itself speaks about it.

 

[Genesis]

@Genesis

Do you know what is one the major cause of all the problems in the so called 'muslim world' ?

Each 'muslim' country looks towards the west or some neighboring power to bail it out of trouble rather than its brotherly muslim country

With this mentality you can't form a unified muslim bloc

You can't say that, just like those that said Chinese are all about fighting amongst each other and coward against foreigners.

For people that say these things I remind them the Muslim Caliphs, the Ottoman empire, the only people permanently stop the Mongols was muslim.

China had Mao, regardless of what people thinks, he took on the West plus Russia with no fear, then there is the Ancient dynasties, that took it to foreigners.

Today, Muslim nations are down a bit, look at China, after years we gained the confidence to say no, what I say might not be 100% right, but it's what I'm saying and I will solve my own problems.

Muslim nations just need a light, need to be confident. You can't expect a people to just get out of a rut because you said so, you must demonstrate that you can, to give them hope. Rome wasn't build in a day, and neither is this empire I'm talking about.

 

[KingMamba]

Actually he is right,Saudi Arabia has influence on Pakistan and not the other way around.Withdrawal of Pakistan from IP pipeline and Saudi Arabia signing defence cooperation with India itself speaks about it.

Are you dumb? I said Pakistan has a lot of influence not the most influence. No doubt the countries with the most influence among Muslims today are Iran and Saudi for obvious reasons.

You cannot solve Kashmir issue(unless Pakistan decides to compromise) regardless of how much influence you have.In 60's and 70's Pakistan had the support of America and was getiing millions of dollars and top quality weapons then also you were to gain IOK so why do you think you will be able to do with a organisation which is not going to be formed in the first place.

It is not Pakistan who does not want to compromise but India who prefers status quo so does not even want to talk Kashmir.

 

[untitled]

What Genesis is saying not something impossible but it literally requires a massive sacrifice of blood, sweat, tears and a major change in mentality.

Plus it is going to face a huge resistance from the western powers

Now wonder it serves western powers interests to see the 'Muslim world' in a cesspool ruled by pro western puppets

 

[KingMamba]

What Genesis is saying not something impossible but it literally requires a massive sacrifice of blood, sweat, tears and a major change in mentality.

Plus it is going to face a huge resistance from the western powers

Now wonder it serves western powers interests to see the 'Muslim world' in a cesspool ruled by pro western puppets

Yeah all those natural resources under one political body? Would not sit well with some countries.

 

[jarves]

It is not Pakistan who does not want to compromise

What do you mean by that??

 

[KingMamba]

What do you mean by that??

Most Pakistani leaders do not even talk about all of kashmir going to Pakistan anymore but whenever they bring up Kashmir in talks to figure something out Indians do not want to talk at all so that is why there is a deadlock.

 

[jarves]

Most Pakistani leaders do not even talk about all of kashmir going to Pakistan anymore but whenever they bring up Kashmir in talks to figure something out Indians do not want to talk at all so that is why there is a deadlock.

This is totally false but i dont want to derail the thread.Lets leave it here.