Pak race for tactical nukes adds new poison to the mix

[Kayoze]

C Dragon why are you indulging the kid?? His two posts are both within this thread and the first was a simple troll.

You stay out of this , you American are real reason why we Indian are in such a mess.

 

[tony singh]

I am going to use your map to ask a question directly related to this thread. Can all further hostilities be ceased if both sides agree to give the valley and only the valley autonomy from both states?? They can have free movement between both states and military protection for both but can form their own government like the model based in Kurdish Iraq. The remaining portions will be absorbed into the states they are already a part of.

Gilgit Baltistan to Pakistan, Leh and Ladakh to India, the valley for the Kashmir's who hate the guts of both states. As for Saichin the glacier can be handed over to the UN with citizens from both Pakistan and India afforded free trekking rights. Whatever profits are made from the glacier (if any) can be given to the red cross as a joint donation by both Pakistan and India. What is the feasibility of this, or no???

Nothing will happen but the LOC will remain as it is, in time we can improve trade between our side of Kashmir and Pakistan's like we are doing in Punjab border. Solution on Kashmir can happen once Pakistan has its election and we can see who comes to power and same with India but until then it will just be business as usual. Tourism is increasing in our side of Kashmir in recent years the real aim is to create jobs for the local Kashmiris that is why we held a big meeting there with top IT firms like Wipro etc to setup shop in Kashmir as unemployment is a issue.

BBC News - Tourists return to Kashmir valley

 

[ares]

That is the whole point of deterrence.

Would India commit to a conventional attack such as Cold Start, if they knew it could eventually end up escalating to all-out nuclear war? Tactical nukes are just a stepping stone in the escalation process.

Indian cold start is aimed at keeping the war below enemy nuclear threshold ..it is aimed making shallow gains in enemy territory ...which do not require a nuclear response.
So, yes!!..in case of grave provocation, such as major terrorist attack from Pakistani side or Kargil type misadventure..India can resort to cold start as a means of punishing Pakistan.
But if Pakistan further lower its nuclear thresh hold..it is only to giving nuclear cover to its terror activities..Pakistan is ensuring, the fate of entire Pakistan populace is in the hand of few terrorist.(who even they admit, are not fully in their control).

 

[KingMamba]

Nothing will happen but the LOC will remain as it is, in time we can improve trade between our side of Kashmir and Pakistan's like we are doing in Punjab border. Solution on Kashmir can happen once Pakistan has its election and we can see who comes to power and same with India but until then it will just be business as usual. Tourism is increasing in our side of Kashmir in recent years the real aim is to create jobs for the local Kashmiris that is why we held a big meeting there with top IT firms like Wipro etc to setup shop in Kashmir as unemployment is a issue.

BBC News - Tourists return to Kashmir valley

Is that a direct no??? I asked if the solution I presented is feasible.

 

[tony singh]

Is that a direct no??? I asked if the solution I presented is feasible.

Like I said the LOC is the line of control and it will not be changed

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Indian cold start is aimed at keeping the war below enemy nuclear threshold ..it is aimed making shallow gains in enemy territory ...which do not require a nuclear response.
So, yes!!..in case of grave provocation, such as major terrorist attack from Pakistani side or Kargil type misadventure..India can resort to cold start as a means of punishing Pakistan.

So basically tactical nukes counter the idea of Cold Start working below the nuclear threshold.

By lowering the nuclear threshold to Cold Start levels.

But if Pakistan further lower its nuclear thresh hold..it is only to giving nuclear cover to its terror activities..Pakistan is ensuring, the fate of entire Pakistan populace is in the hand of few terrorist.(who even they admit, are not fully in their control).

They sure don't want to be invaded due to the crimes of some non-state actors.

 

[Secur]

Use of nuclear weapons on Indian forces is crossing Indian nuclear threshold.

Making things worse..is the desicion to send millions of people to their deaths..will not rest..with Pakistani head of the state..but some hotheaded battlefield commander.

Capture of Pakistani cities is crossing its threshold ... You are again faced with a dilemma , do not give me your NFU crap but a rational reply , retreat , save a billion , continue , lose a billion ! What is IA's going to chose ?

The more sinister thing is that it will all start with a Cold Start initiated by your country which has the potential to quickly turn red hot !

 

[Secur]

Indian cold start is aimed at keeping the war below enemy nuclear threshold ..it is aimed making shallow gains in enemy territory ...which do not require a nuclear response.

Pakistan army can keep the Indians at bay however if they are overwhelmed , then we are definitely going nuclear with a tactical nukes on an invading IBG as a warning shot , there isn't any second opinion about that here ...

So , deluded Indians foolishly think that Pakistan will merely hand over the country , greet the invaders with garlands and roses and let India take control of solution ? Height of day dreaming !

 

[Safriz]

Capture of Pakistani cities is crossing its threshold ... You are again faced with a dilemma , do not give me your NFU crap but a rational reply , retreat , save a billion , continue , lose a billion ! What is IA's going to chose ?

The more sinister thing is that it will all start with a Cold Start initiated by your country which has the potential to quickly turn red hot !

For this scenario Pakistan will need a sea based missile launch capability...A large submarine.

 

[ares]

So basically tactical nukes counter the idea of Cold Start working below the nuclear threshold.

By lowering the nuclear threshold to Cold Start levels.

By lowering their nuclear threshold..they are giving nuclear cover to its terrorist assets and ensuring that life of 180 million Pakistanis rest in the hand of a few terrorists and one battlefield commander(who is been handed nuclear weapons to play with).

They sure don't want to be invaded due to the crimes of some non-state actors.

That is a bull$hit argument!!
They claim to be sovereign nation..hence they are responsible for terrorism emanating from their land.

If they can not punish and control the terrorist on their land ..then they should stand aside ..let some else do their job for them.
Least of all is provide a nuclear umbrella to terrorism emanating from their country!!

 

[tony singh]

Personally I do not even think India even has to use 'cold start' if God forbid there was another terror attack like Bombay a much cheaper and simpler tactic could be to recruit hired guns and train them in Afghanistan to dispatch into Pakistan to cause mayhem.

 

[Secur]

Remember India has the no first policy of nukes, any use of nuclear weapons either tactical or otherwise will invite full wrath from India.

Remember our threshold and do risk the lives of billions for a few armoured columns !

 

[ares]

Pakistan army can keep the Indians at bay however if they are overwhelmed , then we are definitely going nuclear with a tactical nukes on an invading IBG as a warning shot , there isn't any second opinion about that here ...

So , deluded Indians foolishly think that Pakistan will merely hand over the country , greet the invaders with garlands and roses and let India take control of solution ? Height of day dreaming !

And you will be deluding ..yourself... if you believe..India will not give a nuclear response to your "warning shot".

 

[Secur]

By lowering their nuclear threshold..they are giving nuclear cover to its terrorist assets and ensuring that life of 180 million Pakistanis rest in the hand of a few terrorists and one battlefield commander(who is been handed nuclear weapons to play with).

Yes , a battlefield commander !

Who will enlighten the Indian invaders that the threshold has been crossed and any further continuation of the conflict may end up in both sides using strategic nukes ...

And you will be deluding ..yourself... if you believe..India will not give a nuclear response to your "warning shot".

Sure , lose a billion of your people ! Remember , we are determined ... That is the reason how have we prevented three wars !

 

[Kayoze]

3-4 megatons PER every single Chinese nuke. Compared to India's entire nuclear arsenal which is 1 megaton in total. (Assuming that no Indian nukes get taken out beforehand and no Indian nukes are used against Pakistan, which will deplete the total by more than half).

As I said earlier also nuclear capability similar to China is not difficult for India to acquire.
In next decade India owing to its GDP should be able to buy silence of international community in event if India decide to go for further nuke test to increase the yield of its nukes.
Moreover if India be willing to pay the asked price then Russians and French might not mind helping us( so that we need not go further testing) India's strong non-proliferation and democratic credentials would also help.

Also, India is right on the Tibetan border, and your capital city can be hit with even short-range missiles stationed in Tibet, along with most of India's major population centers. Whereas China's major cities are all on the East coast, thousands of miles away from the Indian border.

The point is that if you declare any India-Pakistan nuclear war will mean that you will nuke China too, then you will force us to pre-emptively nuke all your nuclear silos in the event of any India-Pakistan conflict, to prevent the nukes being launched in the first place.

India can survive plenty of 20kt nukes on their cities, but if you bring China in then you will have to deal with large numbers of 3-4 megaton nukes, as well as the PLA after your limited nuclear arsenal is exhausted.

Yes geography is on yr side but if India acquires nukes as powerful as you folks got then things won't be as rosy for you.
India has always talked of two front war And China's renewed interest in Su35 and its failure to come up with a power indigenous fighter plane engine is certainly a question mark on China's military capabilities and so it safe to presume that gap b\w India and China's military capability is not that as high as earlier anticipated.
Unlike China India has never been in an war mode when it has come to building its military capabilities and if would come down to this then India can certainly ramp up the things and since India has access to what best stuff west has to offer so India easily can come up to level of the Chinese.
And in end the results would just as catastrophic for both us, unless Chinese don't stop assisting the Pakistanis.