PAK pilots on Sukhoi's

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

could be preparing Pakistani pilots for Chinese future jets....

probably you are right bro. , it makes a lot of sense

 

[Obambam]

probably you are right bro. , it makes a lot of sense

Yep, it is not unknown that China and Pakistan have collaborated efforts when it comes to military. It is also wise that Pakistan doesn't rely on just American systems and equipments for its defense. It is better to take onboard both sides and make them its own, just like what China did to its obtained Russian technology.

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

in india pilots are inducted based on skills than looks

are these j11 or su30mkk?

hmm you make sense here , no wonder why indian pilots are schhitt-looking ... this confession of yours made the day here ...

 

[Shinigami]

hmm you make sense here , no wonder why indian pilots are schhitt-looking ... this confession of yours made the day here ...

better to have pilots who are "schhitt-looking" but aggressive than super models who cant fly for "schhitt".

anyway who told u IAF pilots look bad?

 

[SQ8]

90 Degree is the maximum as of now..

Not of now.. since launch..
the problem is with the limitations of HMS used..
The JSF's HMS will allow a pilot to track a target in its blind zone.. i.e see underneath..or something at his 5 or 7 o clock..
and shoot.
The math that is being presented that the TVC will escape the "restrictions" to conventional HMS is ridiculous..
there is a difference in swinging the jets nose around to shoot.. and swinging the jet so that the target comest to your 3 or 9 o clock to shoot.

 

[anathema]

If you see in the video.. the TVC helps in overcoming this situation by providing the escape system in whisker unless the proximity fuse is very strong...

The relevance of TVC in modern day combat has significantly reduced ....TVC cannot overcome the situation in this case..you have to realize that the modern day missiles is also equiped with TVC , so it doesnt matter what manuveur you do , the missile will follow you around (unless the missile has bled its energy). The latest gen missiles is also 'power till the end' type missiles , i.e. unlike older generation the newer generation missiles will have constant thrust provided by its rocket motor ex - Meteor.

so unless i am missing something or if Russians have thought of something mind bogling - TVC is a past ...

 

[blain2]

better to have pilots who are "schhitt-looking" but aggressive than super models who cant fly for "schhitt".

anyway who told u IAF pilots look bad?

These are flame-baits that should be avoided. I agree, looking good DNE flying good.

 

[blain2]

See, I am not aware that the MKI's engine life is negatively affected by TVC. You may be right, I hope that you will share your information with us.

Now for arguments sale, let say you are 100% right.

Now which part of a jet is routinely replaced? The Engine.

Which part of the airframe is routinely replaced. Nothing?

Why are so many A-5's and Mig 21's being retired? Because of the engine or because of the wear and tear of the airframe?

Therefore, if TVC reduces the life of the engine while saving wear and tear on the airframe, it can only be a good move, no?

Anything to do with the engine is more complex, requires significant investment in training and retaining airmen capable of the job etc. etc. and significant inventory of parts on hand (unless you want to be at the mercy of Russian OEMs providing parts in a timely manner). You can look up the figures on the MTBO for US engines (non-TVC) compared to the MTBO of AL-31FP engines and will see a pretty significant difference. Unless you spare the AL-31F in significant numbers, it means that your aircraft would have certain availability challenges given the engines are undergoing overhaul more rapidly and may potentially have more moving parts susceptible to failure.

Last I checked, the MTBO for the AL-31FPs was around 1K hours and total life of 3K hours (the TVC nozzles required overhauls almost every year). This compares with a 10K hours life for the PWF100s on the blk-52s with MTBO of ~4000 hours.

 

[ironman]

You will not find a link to a personal conversation.

Back on topic please. it was a useful exercise for both AFs especially for us as our pilots have learned quite a few tricks to overcome su-30 in different regimes. Also, as a saying goes, the bigger they are, the harder they fall, seems to be a case for this fighter because its huge size, payload, range, comes with a huge RCS. Our pilots were able to see it at very distant ranges through naked eye and RWR shouted way early! Even coupled with jammers, its hard to hide. Maneuverability is impressive but as santro mentioned, it suffers at transonic, low speed due to energy bleed, again the size becomes issue here. We liked it overall but as Indian friends keep worshiping it, from what i m told at least, it is far from perfect. Yes it is still an MKK not MKI, but general dimensions are pretty similar. Also, PAF contingent has been in China for quite some time now flying different PLAAF fighters including J-10, MKK etc so it is nothing alien to them anymore.

I would give credibility to a real warrior rather than an internet warrior..

At General Dynamics we did a study of Flankers and its impact on our Business Development efforts internationally and the results surprised us.

We need to be very careful when comparing Flankers with other aircrafts. Realistically, it is one of the best if not the best among the 4th gen. brood.

I will try penning down a post based on the lessons learnt.

We can put BVR capable F-16s and JF-17 against any aircraft in the Indian inventory but SU-30 is a beast which will not be easy to kill. Though US has devised scenerios to confront and tame it if and when needed.

 

[ironman]

Anything to do with the engine is more complex, requires significant investment in training and retaining airmen capable of the job etc. etc. and significant inventory of parts on hand (unless you want to be at the mercy of Russian OEMs providing parts in a timely manner). You can look up the figures on the MTBO for US engines (non-TVC) compared to the MTBO of AL-31FP engines and will see a pretty significant difference. Unless you spare the AL-31F in significant numbers, it means that your aircraft would have certain availability challenges given the engines are undergoing overhaul more rapidly and may potentially have more moving parts susceptible to failure.

Last I checked, the MTBO for the AL-31FPs was around 1K hours and total life of 3K hours (the TVC nozzles required overhauls almost every year). This compares with a 10K hours life for the PWF100s on the blk-52s with MTBO of ~4000 hours.

It is even worst .. never wonder HAL is license producing some 1500.

 

[Dazzler]

I would give credibility to a real warrior rather than an internet warrior..

At least i have tried to contribute something unlike some who have only one aim i.e. to criticize others for contributing.

 

[blain2]

It is even worst .. never wonder HAL is license producing some 1500.

HAL's production means only one thing and that is IAF have decided to stick with it. Does not mean that the challenges associated with it become less because you assemble 1500 engines.

 

[SQ8]

I would give credibility to a real warrior rather than an internet warrior..

You say as if your opinion matters that much...

What you have stated has been stated 1001 times in 1001 different ways.. by a multitude of overzealous fanboys and real internet warriors.
If not for many that are in the circles that be knowing pshamim.. what stops you from questioning his credibility?
which brings in the not so attractive idea that the only reason he is credible(which he is) to you .. is because he has posted something which in used to back up the ridiculous claims of the MKI being invincible.

 

[Dazzler]

it is the case of swallow the sweet and spill the bitter, if it is in their favor, even an enemy will become credible but if it is not, even a friend is dismissed. For things like him, i am least bothered.

 

[Al-Mulazim]

hmmm..interesting