Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

[JonAsad]

So, what is your version of story.

my version or rather POW is simple-

If india really inflict that much damage to PA- there was no need for all this bollywood drama of fake Pajama wearing soldiers giving up or dead-

Like i said before- this all was for the mass consumption of general dumb emotionally drooling indian people-

 

[illusion8]

not much for india too, all of suden kashmir jihad , also can happen again?
guys you dont get it, core issue in pakistan still is kashmir any way, & no one has forgotten it yet!
many still are working on it, future will make india understands it?


it wasnt, but mumbai was?

Kargil was a serious affair and India saw it as an ultimate sign of back stabbing from Pakistan

1) NS was talking of peace with Vajpayee when these incursions were in process and secondly it was the norm of soldiers of both sides to vacate their posts for winter on some level of understanding between each other. Pakistan used this opportunity to occupy the vacated posts on Indian side of LOC which was a direct violation.

Kashmir is put to the sidelines and will be pushed more to the backburner by your administration owing to Pakistan's internal strife and PK attempts at building good relations with India. Pk has stopped financing the jihadis and pro Kashmir parties of India hence the surrender of a thousand ex militants. In the near present during all our bilateral discussions Kashmir is not raised by Pakistan which is taking the discussions forward or else Kashmir always hijacks the discussion and both parties do not relent on it.

Pakistan is in a weaker position on Kashmir reason being is Kashmiri's are not keen on joining with Pakistan and secondly the UN plebiscite clearly states that Pk has to vacate from part of Kashmir which is in Pakistan as well as china has to vacate the part of kashmir it has.

 

[batmannow]

Get real mate , Pak has been trying to occupy Kashmir through force and failing miserably on each occasion ... what makes you think it will be any different in the future ?

Last time you tried Your PM Nawaz ran to US scurrying for help, next time it will be Raja Pervez scurrying .... That could be the only difference

i dont think so because of this?

India’s security at risk: Army Chief warns PM
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 11:21
India

New Delhi: Amidst the raging row over bribery allegations, Army Chief General VK Singh is reported to have written a letter to the Prime Minister, stating the country’s security might be at risk owing to the fact that tanks are running out of ammunition, air defence is going obsolete and the infantry is operating without critical weapons.

According to DNA, Gen Singh wrote the letter to PM Manmohan Singh on March 12, two weeks before making an explosive revelation that he was offered Rs 14 crore bribe to clear a defence purchase.

The Army Chief’s letter also rocked both Houses of Parliament, with Opposition creating an uproar over the issue.

Defence Minister AK Antony told Rajya Sabha he was aware of the letter and that a response would be given “at an appropriate time”.
Minister of State for Defence Pallam Raju had earlier confirmed that the government had received the letter from the Army Chief and were taking it seriously. The minister added that steps were being taken to overcome the shortcomings in armed forces' preparedness.

"There is obviously a gap in the capabilities. We are trying to bridge that gap," the minister told reporters.

Sources meanwhile said that the Army Chief’s letter was a breach of protocol as it should have been sent to the Defence Minister only.

In the letter, the Army Chief – who also had a recent run-in with the government over his date of birth controversy – asked the PM to “pass suitable directions to enhance the preparedness of the Army”.

Gen Singh wrote to the PMO after he failed to get a response from the Defence Ministry. It is no secret that following the row with South Block —which houses the Defence Ministry — over his birth date, the Army Chief has had to face a bureaucracy that seems reluctant to process files.

Also, experts and observers have criticised the Manmohan Singh-led government, which first came to power in May 2004 and then won a re-election in 2009, for not having made any big ticket defence purchases.

“The state of the major (fighting) arms i.e. Mechanised Forces, Artillery, Air Defence, Infantry and Special Forces, as well as the Engineers and Signals, is indeed alarming,” Gen Singh wrote in his letter, as per DNA.
In his letter, the Army Chief stated that while there is lack of critical ammunition for the entire tank fleet, the country’s air defence is “97% obsolete and it doesn't give the deemed confidence to protect…from the air”.

Also, the infantry is crippled with “deficiencies of crew served weapon” and lacks “night fighting” capabilities. Elite Special Forces, on the other hand, are “woefully short” of “essential weapons”.

Lamenting the complex and slow defence procurement procedures, Gen Singh said that there was “hollowness” in the present system.

He also hit out at indigenous ordnance factories, saying they produce weapon systems and other fighting material of poor quality with no sense of urgency.

Stating the shortcomings were severely eroding the Army's preparedness, he stressed on the need to “urgently mitigate” these “critical deficiencies” that are “impacting the operational capability” of a 1.3million-strong Army.

Kargil was a serious affair and India saw it as an ultimate sign of back stabbing from Pakistan

1) NS was talking of peace with Vajpayee when these incursions were in process and secondly it was the norm of soldiers of both sides to vacate their posts for winter on some level of understanding between each other. Pakistan used this opportunity to occupy the vacated posts on Indian side of LOC which was a direct violation.

Kashmir is put to the sidelines and will be pushed more to the backburner by your administration owing to Pakistan's internal strife and PK attempts at building good relations with India. Pk has stopped financing the jihadis and pro Kashmir parties of India hence the surrender of a thousand ex militants. In the near present during all our bilateral discussions Kashmir is not raised by Pakistan which is taking the discussions forward or else Kashmir always hijacks the discussion and both parties do not relent on it.

Pakistan is in a weaker position on Kashmir reason being is Kashmiri's are not keen on joining with Pakistan and secondly the UN plebiscite clearly states that Pk has to vacate from part of Kashmir which is in Pakistan as well as china has to vacate the part of kashmir it has.

kashmir will on any agenda, in any talks today or towmarow, clear your mind!
it just take, one kick of a militry boot ,to let our politicians know, what they had eatn in the last night!

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

i dont think so because of this?

India’s security at risk: Army Chief warns PM
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 11:21
India

New Delhi: Amidst the raging row over bribery allegations, Army Chief General VK Singh is reported to have written a letter to the Prime Minister, stating the country’s security might be at risk owing to the fact that tanks are running out of ammunition, air defence is going obsolete and the infantry is operating without critical weapons.

According to DNA, Gen Singh wrote the letter to PM Manmohan Singh on March 12, two weeks before making an explosive revelation that he was offered Rs 14 crore bribe to clear a defence purchase.

The Army Chief’s letter also rocked both Houses of Parliament, with Opposition creating an uproar over the issue.

Defence Minister AK Antony told Rajya Sabha he was aware of the letter and that a response would be given “at an appropriate time”.
Minister of State for Defence Pallam Raju had earlier confirmed that the government had received the letter from the Army Chief and were taking it seriously. The minister added that steps were being taken to overcome the shortcomings in armed forces' preparedness.

"There is obviously a gap in the capabilities. We are trying to bridge that gap," the minister told reporters.

Sources meanwhile said that the Army Chief’s letter was a breach of protocol as it should have been sent to the Defence Minister only.

In the letter, the Army Chief – who also had a recent run-in with the government over his date of birth controversy – asked the PM to “pass suitable directions to enhance the preparedness of the Army”.

Gen Singh wrote to the PMO after he failed to get a response from the Defence Ministry. It is no secret that following the row with South Block —which houses the Defence Ministry — over his birth date, the Army Chief has had to face a bureaucracy that seems reluctant to process files.

Also, experts and observers have criticised the Manmohan Singh-led government, which first came to power in May 2004 and then won a re-election in 2009, for not having made any big ticket defence purchases.

“The state of the major (fighting) arms i.e. Mechanised Forces, Artillery, Air Defence, Infantry and Special Forces, as well as the Engineers and Signals, is indeed alarming,” Gen Singh wrote in his letter, as per DNA.
In his letter, the Army Chief stated that while there is lack of critical ammunition for the entire tank fleet, the country’s air defence is “97% obsolete and it doesn't give the deemed confidence to protect…from the air”.

Also, the infantry is crippled with “deficiencies of crew served weapon” and lacks “night fighting” capabilities. Elite Special Forces, on the other hand, are “woefully short” of “essential weapons”.

Lamenting the complex and slow defence procurement procedures, Gen Singh said that there was “hollowness” in the present system.

He also hit out at indigenous ordnance factories, saying they produce weapon systems and other fighting material of poor quality with no sense of urgency.

Stating the shortcomings were severely eroding the Army's preparedness, he stressed on the need to “urgently mitigate” these “critical deficiencies” that are “impacting the operational capability” of a 1.3million-strong Army.


kashmir will on any agenda, in any talks today or towmarow, clear your mind!
it just take, one kick of a militry boot ,to let our politicians know, what they had eatn in the last night!

Russia To Supply Ammunition For India's
T-90 Tanks
By Jay Menon jaymenon68@gmail.com
Source: AWIN First
Email Print Share: text size A A A
April 09, 2012
India is likely to take delivery of 16,000
rounds of ammunition from Russia for its
T-90 tanks this year.
“A contract for procurement of 16,000
rounds of Fin Stabilized Armor Piercing
Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS) ammunition for
T-90 tanks was signed with
Rosoboronexport ... in December 2010. It
became effective in March 2011, and the
complete consignment is likely to be
delivered in the first half of 2012,” a defense
ministry official says.
The Indian army has been looking for high-
quality 125mm FSAPDS ammunition for in-
service T-72 and T-90 tanks. And the
government was recently criticized after
army chief Gen. V.K. Singh noted that there
was a shortage of shells for armored
regiments.
A contract for 66,000 rounds of ammunition
for 84mm rocket launchers also was signed
in March 2011 with Swedish firm Saab, the
official says.
Meanwhile, the Russian arms export firm
Rosoboronexport hopes India will be
interested in upgrading its T-90 tanks into
T-90MS versions. At the recent DefExpo in
New Delhi, Russia displayed a prototype of
its T-90MS tank. The upgraded tank has
improved capabilities in firepower,
protection, mobility and command ability.
India has overtaken China as the world’s
largest conventional arms buyer in the last
five years, according to a recent report from
the Swedish Stockholm International Peace
Research Institute. India spent $12.7 billion
on weapons in that period, 80% of which
came from Russia.

Russia To Supply Ammunition For India T-90 Tanks

 

[batmannow]

Get real mate , Pak has been trying to occupy Kashmir through force and failing miserably on each occasion ... what makes you think it will be any different in the future ?

Last time you tried Your PM Nawaz ran to US scurrying for help, next time it will be Raja Pervez scurrying .... That could be the only difference

beta be real & listen to this?
India General: We’re Unfit for War
By Jason Miks
March 29, 2012
inShare
India General: We


India’s million man-plus armed forces are unfit to fight a war, according to the country’s army chief. “The army’s tanks have run out of ammunition, the air defense is as good as obsolete and the infantry is short of critical weapons,” Gen. V.K. Singh wrote in a leaked letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, India’s DNA news agency has reported.

Singh is said to have approached the prime minister after failing to get a response from the Defense Ministry. He warns in the letter that the state of India’s military is “alarming,” noting that the country’s air defense is “97 percent obsolete,” while the elite Special Forces are described as “woefully short” of “essential weapons.”

“This news is causing a lot of angst here,” said The Diplomat contributor Manpreet Sethi, who lectures regularly at India’s armed forces training centers. “Reports are pouring in from both sides – those who are angry with the general for allowing such a leak to happen, especially in the wake of allegations over a bribe he supposedly made earlier in the week, and those who believe that the corruption in the system can only be cleansed if such issues come out in the public.”

“The government is really on the back foot, as it has been on many issues for some time now,” she said.

Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony confirmed to parliament Wednesday that Singh had indeed sent the letter, and he vowed to “protect every inch of our motherland” by upping the pace of modernization efforts. According to a new report by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, between 2007 and 2011, India emerged as the world’s largest weapons importer. India’s defense budget, meanwhile, is rising by between 13 and 19 percent, depending on the interpretation of the numbers, against forecast GDP growth of 7.6 percent.

“Like any commander of the armed services, he (Singh) is determined to do the best for his service and has accordingly informed the prime minister about the poor decision making in the Defense Ministry and the long delays his army is suffering,” said Devindra Sethi, a retired Indian naval captain. “What’s shocking is that it has been leaked to the media. As only two copies exist, one with the prime minister and the other with the commander of the armed services, it now remains to be confirmed which copy has been copied and leaked.”

The leak comes at an uncomfortable time for New Delhi. With neighbor China itself ramping up military spending in recent years, and with the border between the two still tense, India has felt compelled to revise its own military plans, including deepening ties with allies and focusing on modernizing the country’s Air Force.

“The Air Force, currently the largest beneficiary of India’s rising military budget, is in the middle of shifting its focus from being a purely Pakistan-centric force, to one that will be capable of simultaneously meeting the twin threats posed by an insecure Pakistan and an increasingly belligerent China,” defense analyst Nitin Gokhale wrote in The Diplomat. “In fiscal 2009-10 alone, for instance, the Air Force spent over $4 billion in capital acquisition, almost three times the amount spent by the Army.”

Gokhale says that over the next few years, the Air Force budget for new purchases is only likely to rise with plans to buy six new-generation tanker transports, 22 attack helicopters, 12 heavy-lift helicopters and nearly 200 basic trainer aircraft.

But Indian Decade writer Rajeev Sharma argues that Singh’s letter anyway has politics written all over it.

“This is the first time a serving army chief has posed such political problems to the government. The Indian armed forces have been apolitical for the past 65 years, since independence,” Sharma noted, drawing a contrast with neighbors Pakistan and Nepal. “So the general mood in India on this subject is that the general has been speaking more like a politician of late and therefore his words need to be taken with a pinch of salt.”

Still, fellow Indian Decade contributor Sumit Ganguly suggests where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

“I fear that Singh’s revelations, though possibly motivated by a sense of personal piqué, are essentially correct,” Ganguly said. “India’s weapons acquisitions process is dilatory, cumbersome and plodding. I’ve no independent means of affirming if the situation is as dire as the general has claimed. However, reliable press reports suggest that there is some truth to his assertions.”

“The revelations and the ensuing controversy also underscore the current political disarray within India. For months, there has been an unseemly battle between the Chief of Staff and the Defense Ministry about his age. With the latest revelations, the political atmosphere will become even more miasmic raising serious questions about the workings of civil-military relations in India.”

 

[illusion8]

my version or rather POW is simple-

If india really inflict that much damage to PA- there was no need for all this bollywood drama of fake Pajama wearing soldiers giving up or dead-

Like i said before- this all was for the mass consumption of general dumb emotionally drooling indian people-

u r delusional and not ready to accept that PA soldiers really died in Kargil and those are your soldiers bodies - and, that pic is not from any Indian site and no where in Indian media or publication is that pic posted for the last 13 years, so your attempt at making it seem that its a Indian propaganda or made up bollywood drama is stupid . As I told you it was from your army's ex general's blog and not from an Indian site so where does the question arise of it being a propaganda?

No Indian media has utilized that pic and believe me its a pic of Pakistani's. Learn to accpt that soldiers do get killed during wars and a lot of Pakistani's lost their lives during the conflict, Just because you are in some fool's paradise does not negate the facts.

 

[Rafi]

One is reminded of those young indian soldiers wiped out on in the prime of life, young kids sent to their deaths by the criminal indian fascist state, those young soldiers mortally wounded crying out for their mothers, are the fault of the same fascist indian regime.

 

[illusion8]

i dont think so because of this?

India’s security at risk: Army Chief warns PM
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 11:21
India

New Delhi: Amidst the raging row over bribery allegations, Army Chief General VK Singh is reported to have written a letter to the Prime Minister, stating the country’s security might be at risk owing to the fact that tanks are running out of ammunition, air defence is going obsolete and the infantry is operating without critical weapons.

According to DNA, Gen Singh wrote the letter to PM Manmohan Singh on March 12, two weeks before making an explosive revelation that he was offered Rs 14 crore bribe to clear a defence purchase.

The Army Chief’s letter also rocked both Houses of Parliament, with Opposition creating an uproar over the issue.

Defence Minister AK Antony told Rajya Sabha he was aware of the letter and that a response would be given “at an appropriate time”.
Minister of State for Defence Pallam Raju had earlier confirmed that the government had received the letter from the Army Chief and were taking it seriously. The minister added that steps were being taken to overcome the shortcomings in armed forces' preparedness.

"There is obviously a gap in the capabilities. We are trying to bridge that gap," the minister told reporters.

Sources meanwhile said that the Army Chief’s letter was a breach of protocol as it should have been sent to the Defence Minister only.

In the letter, the Army Chief – who also had a recent run-in with the government over his date of birth controversy – asked the PM to “pass suitable directions to enhance the preparedness of the Army”.

Gen Singh wrote to the PMO after he failed to get a response from the Defence Ministry. It is no secret that following the row with South Block —which houses the Defence Ministry — over his birth date, the Army Chief has had to face a bureaucracy that seems reluctant to process files.

Also, experts and observers have criticised the Manmohan Singh-led government, which first came to power in May 2004 and then won a re-election in 2009, for not having made any big ticket defence purchases.

“The state of the major (fighting) arms i.e. Mechanised Forces, Artillery, Air Defence, Infantry and Special Forces, as well as the Engineers and Signals, is indeed alarming,” Gen Singh wrote in his letter, as per DNA.
In his letter, the Army Chief stated that while there is lack of critical ammunition for the entire tank fleet, the country’s air defence is “97% obsolete and it doesn't give the deemed confidence to protect…from the air”.

Also, the infantry is crippled with “deficiencies of crew served weapon” and lacks “night fighting” capabilities. Elite Special Forces, on the other hand, are “woefully short” of “essential weapons”.

Lamenting the complex and slow defence procurement procedures, Gen Singh said that there was “hollowness” in the present system.

He also hit out at indigenous ordnance factories, saying they produce weapon systems and other fighting material of poor quality with no sense of urgency.

Stating the shortcomings were severely eroding the Army's preparedness, he stressed on the need to “urgently mitigate” these “critical deficiencies” that are “impacting the operational capability” of a 1.3million-strong Army.


kashmir will on any agenda, in any talks today or towmarow, clear your mind!
it just take, one kick of a militry boot ,to let our politicians know, what they had eatn in the last night!

The attempt at improving bilateral relations with India has received your PA's blessing's, remember Gen.Kayani's words and his wish to see better relations with India.

 

[batmannow]

Russia To Supply Ammunition For India's
T-90 Tanks
By Jay Menon jaymenon68@gmail.com
Source: AWIN First
Email Print Share: text size A A A
April 09, 2012
India is likely to take delivery of 16,000
rounds of ammunition from Russia for its
T-90 tanks this year.
“A contract for procurement of 16,000
rounds of Fin Stabilized Armor Piercing
Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS) ammunition for
T-90 tanks was signed with
Rosoboronexport ... in December 2010. It
became effective in March 2011, and the
complete consignment is likely to be
delivered in the first half of 2012,” a defense
ministry official says.
The Indian army has been looking for high-
quality 125mm FSAPDS ammunition for in-
service T-72 and T-90 tanks. And the
government was recently criticized after
army chief Gen. V.K. Singh noted that there
was a shortage of shells for armored
regiments.
A contract for 66,000 rounds of ammunition
for 84mm rocket launchers also was signed
in March 2011 with Swedish firm Saab, the
official says.
Meanwhile, the Russian arms export firm
Rosoboronexport hopes India will be
interested in upgrading its T-90 tanks into
T-90MS versions. At the recent DefExpo in
New Delhi, Russia displayed a prototype of
its T-90MS tank. The upgraded tank has
improved capabilities in firepower,
protection, mobility and command ability.
India has overtaken China as the world’s
largest conventional arms buyer in the last
five years, according to a recent report from
the Swedish Stockholm International Peace
Research Institute. India spent $12.7 billion
on weapons in that period, 80% of which
came from Russia.

Russia To Supply Ammunition For India T-90 Tanks

it didnt happened yet, let it happen, frist & post it!
& its not just only your good dammed tanks read my post again, its in too many different fields!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

my mental age is far more than yours as I can percieve from your previous juvenile troll post

 

[Paan Singh]

One is reminded of those young indian soldiers wiped out on in the prime of life, young kids sent to their deaths by the criminal indian fascist state, those young soldiers mortally wounded crying out for their mothers, are the fault of the same fascist indian regime.

i am repeating 10th times on pdf..
that pakistanis are the only generation on the earth who love n laugh at their destruction and remain in delusions.
we love our soldiers and we never hide how many died..

 

[batmannow]

The attempt at improving bilateral relations with India has received your PA's blessing's, remember Gen.Kayani's words and his wish to see better relations with India.

it doesnt means that, he is ready to surrender kashmir?

 

[INDIC]

my version or rather POW is simple-

If india really inflict that much damage to PA- there was no need for all this bollywood drama of fake Pajama wearing soldiers giving up or dead-

Like i said before- this all was for the mass consumption of general dumb emotionally drooling indian people-

Well you were believing something else in 1999, started believing something else after Musharraf's book, so don't care much what you believe.

 

[Rafi]

That india is a fascist state that sent it's soldiers to die, is confirmed by General Pal.

 

[illusion8]

it doesnt means that, he is ready to surrender kashmir?

I never said that, but situations and circumstances push people to look away from something for the time being and India wants that "time being" to be extended for a very long time.