PAK FA with 'Brahmos'

[Trichy]

Not under the belly, but the smaller version that is under development is meant for the wing stations (1 each wing). The use should be clear, as an A2G, or an anti ship cruise missile.

i NEVER HEARD such thing of small version underdevelopment anywhere... A2G & Anti-Ship missiles are there for PAK FA & FGFA but BHROMOS is not Possible due to the size and weight of 2500 kg on a wing is simply rubbish..

(a) For launching a sure strike precision weapon from the edge of detection envelope with minimum detection probability.

(b) Ensuring that our best combat aircraft can launch our best weapons

Why do people assume that in case of actual attack, we will just FGFA to attack. There are things like jamming, decoys, distraction, air superiority fighters in an air war.

This is a good move.

for that you cant except a sniper shoot like a tank shell..

 

[MickyMouse]

i NEVER HEARD such thing of small version underdevelopment anywhere... A2G & Anti-Ship missiles are there for PAK FA & FGFA but BHROMOS is not Possible due to the size and weight of 2500 kg on a wing is simply rubbish..



for that you cant except a sniper shoot like a tank shell..

Wrong comparison. Sniper is not best soldier on field. You expect Sniper to have your best long range gun.

Also 2500kg missile under belly is quite possible.
and just out curiosity, why is reduction of weight in Brahmos an engineering impossiblity?

 

[Kinetic]

Let me try to explain it differently,

In 2D TVC, the thrust can be vectored up and down.

F22

The MKI has technically also a 2D TVC, because the thrust is vectored also up and down, but the axis is angled to some degree, that's why it can vector the thrust to the yaw axis to some extend too.

MKI 2(.5)D TVC

In 3D TVC, the thrust can be vectored in any direction

Mig 29OVT

You can compare it in these videos too:

2D F22
YouTube - F-22 thrust vectoring nozzles

2(.5)D MKI
YouTube - Sukhoi Su-30 MKI - waltz in the sky

3D Mig 29 OVT
YouTube - Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 OVT Thrust vector nozzle (4)

Excellent explanation. As usually told that MKI has 2D TVC is not correct, as you said.

 

[sancho]

i NEVER HEARD such thing of small version underdevelopment anywhere... A2G & Anti-Ship missiles are there for PAK FA & FGFA but BHROMOS is not Possible due to the size and weight of 2500 kg on a wing is simply rubbish..

Maybe this will convince you :

Indian fighter jets to be armed with BrahMos missiles
Singapore, Feb 5 (RIA Novosti):

India's fleet of Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighter jets could be armed with BrahMos missiles by 2012, the vice president of the Irkut Corporation said at the Singapore Airshow 2010.

...Sautov also said that as the missile is "large, heavy and powerful", a lighter modification is currently under development, which will enable Su-30MKI fighters to carry not only one but three missiles...

Indian fighter jets to be armed with BrahMos missiles

This lighter missile will be available for the Pak Fa / FGFA wingstations too, because although they might can carry some A2G, or anti ship missiles internally, they will be lighter, with less range and not as fast. So if IAF needs more punch, they will use these Brahmos versions externally, even if the stealth advantage will be gone to a big extend.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Buddy we dnt need range more than 300 km for aircrafts missile
Even 200 km is good

If we are able to integrate 2-3 brahmos on MKI so that become deadly

Look if the enemy fighter detects us when we 300 km away and if it fires how mki will protect itself ??/ And yest these are the capabilities available in todays fighter. This makes our fighter vulnerable to enemy's radar. By the way a 600 km range brahmos will be better for us or not ??/

Hypersonic Brahmos will be operational much before PAK FA and I guess it will be much smaller and light. if not internally than externally it should be able to carry two hypersonic Brahmos.

Dats the point mate, we are trying to make a stealthy 5th gen fighter. Using missiles outside would compromise with this objective and dats why 5th gen fighters have internal bay for carrying warheads.

ye bro.true,very true.its good that they think that we are able to handle this project.

Actually my friend I hope you are right but the decision to include India is political and monetary. It sucks but its true.

will pak fa have square nozzles?

Yeah even I don't think so. Russians where the one who first tried square nozzle but then they cancelled their plan. I think Russians are going for 3D TVC and dats why they would not go for square nozzle.
@sancho
These smaller versions of brahmos may be good for SU30 mki but it cannot be implied that they will easily fit in FGFA. No weapon in FGFA will be outside as it will effect the stealth capability of fighter. Even vice president of the Irkut Corporation never said anything about FGFA. If they want to fit FGFA with Brahmos then they should design a brahmos small enough to fit in internal bay of FGFA and also in Su30 mki or in the end we will have to redesign a brahmos separately for FGFA.

 

[Ammyy]

Look if the enemy fighter detects us when we 300 km away and if it fires how mki will protect itself ??/ And yest these are the capabilities available in todays fighter. This makes our fighter vulnerable to enemy's radar. By the way a 600 km range brahmos will be better for us or not ??/

Buddy just think about weight of missile that have 600km range

And one more thing su 30 mki is mainly a air superiority fighter so do you think any one mess with it ????

 

[sancho]

@sancho
These smaller versions of brahmos may be good for SU30 mki but it cannot be implied that they will easily fit in FGFA. No weapon in FGFA will be outside as it will effect the stealth capability of fighter. Even vice president of the Irkut Corporation never said anything about FGFA. If they want to fit FGFA with Brahmos then they should design a brahmos small enough to fit in internal bay of FGFA and also in Su30 mki or in the end we will have to redesign a brahmos separately for FGFA.

Of course, because the most important weapons of the Flanker series will be used on Pak Fa / FGFA too, some will be further improved, some re-designed to be useful for the internal weapon bays too.
You don't design a weapon for a particular fighter only and the re-design of Brahmos was planed from the begining anyway, because the first version is still the basic land based version. The next will be more designd for fighter, possibly even MPAs, although I doubt the US will allow the integration to P8Is.
Internal weapon bays normally have a length of around 4m, so you have to re-design the fighter and not the weapon. F35 for example will also not able to carry Harpoon internally, so either it uses it externally, or integrate another anti ship missile and AFAIK they might go for the naval strike missile:

Naval Strike Missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[angeldemon_007]

You don't design a weapon for a particular fighter only

I agree with you and dats what i was trying to say that this kind of mistakes should not be made as it will delay the program and we are capable of making these kind of mistakes.

P8I with brahmos

Very very interesting idea but yeah US won't allow unless we buy some more. If the program is too big then they might allow.

Buddy just think about weight of missile that have 600km range

Yeah thats what we have to figure it out, how to reduce the weight, increase the speed and range.

su 30 mki is mainly a air superiority fighter so do you think any one mess with it ????

I hope you are right, but our Su30 mki fighters were helpless when they faced the new US F16 (with aesa radar). They are good but without aesa, they vulnerable.

 

[HROBOS]

And if you put a rocket in a container with a flat bottom between the air intakes?

 

[tvsram1992]

hypersonic version of brahmos -BRAHMASTRA.(atleast close to it)...

fire and forget that any enemy was there...that too launched from PAK-FA...

brahmastra will be developed indigenously by 2100 in india.
It can cruise or go on ballistic path at max speed of mach20 that also can hit targets on moon. It has self air defense equipped with awacs radar that can target atmost 100 air and ground targets fire anti anti missiles and maneuver like aeroplanes with full 3d tvc . It can carry 10 war heads that can be released at any time of flight. each with mirv of 8 thermo nuclear warheads and having 2 internal bays one carrying 2 interplanetary ballistic missiles equipped with multiple rocket launching system and other having asat(that can hit sats of moon) , asubmarine,space to air missiles and air to space missiles and other advanced delivery systems.

 

[kingdurgaking]

brahmastra will be developed indigenously by 2100 in india.
It can cruise or go on ballistic path at max speed of mach20 that also can hit targets on moon. It has self air defense equipped with awacs radar that can target atmost 100 air and ground targets fire anti anti missiles and maneuver like aeroplanes with full 3d tvc . It can carry 10 war heads that can be released at any time of flight. each with mirv of 8 thermo nuclear warheads and having 2 internal bays one carrying 2 interplanetary ballistic missiles equipped with multiple rocket launching system and other having asat(that can hit sats of moon) , asubmarine,space to air missiles and air to space missiles and other advanced delivery systems.

Reason for changing the flag?? you are going to play some prank?

 

[tvsram1992]

Reason for changing the flag?? you are going to play some prank?

keep ur --- shut. i live in hyd.........

 

[jha]

brahmastra will be developed indigenously by 2100 in india.
It can cruise or go on ballistic path at max speed of mach20 that also can hit targets on moon. It has self air defense equipped with awacs radar that can target atmost 100 air and ground targets fire anti anti missiles and maneuver like aeroplanes with full 3d tvc . It can carry 10 war heads that can be released at any time of flight. each with mirv of 8 thermo nuclear warheads and having 2 internal bays one carrying 2 interplanetary ballistic missiles equipped with multiple rocket launching system and other having asat(that can hit sats of moon) , asubmarine,space to air missiles and air to space missiles and other advanced delivery systems.

 

[jha]

Reason for changing the flag?? you are going to play some prank?

Some complex ..?

 

[bhagat]

keep ur --- shut. i live in hyd.........

you mean here...