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PAK FA vs F22 Raptor : A Detailed Analasis

Gambit, if the F-22 is indeed "invulnerable" to water/rain as you said, then please tell me why your own country and government are trashing it. The facts that I stated were from an American website. The video is also American.
Of course it is invulnerable to rain. The same way that the F-15 and F-16 are equally invulnerable to rain. Since you are too lazy to search on how this 'vulnerability to rain' have been debunked here before, why not tell us what is YOUR perception on how is it 'vulnerable' to rain.

Hey Gambit, look what I found....

The following extract is from an article from airforcetimes.com:



The following link is to a similar article at an other website:

Alaska Crews Find Mechanical Glitches On F-22s After 4-Month Deployment To Rain-Soaked Guam
Errr...This is no different than when the US Navy first took the F-14 out to sea and finally expose the aircraft to salt water environment. Problems will be found and corrected. So far, there is a myth that the F-22's low radar observability can be compromised by water. I explained the basics of radar principles and how this is applicable to all aircrafts, not just the F-22. Since you are too lazy to look it up, it would do us good to tell us what is YOUR perception on how is the F-22 'vulnerable' to rain.
 
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This just keeps getting better and better...

The following is an extract from a report I found in thecable.foreignpolicy.com:



If the F-22 is as incredible and invincible as you claim to be, why is Obama and the White House ashamed of it? :lol::lol:
This has nothing to do with the technicalities of the aircraft. Sounds like someone is awfully jealous...:lol:
 
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@ gambit and death.by.chocolate

A debate with you seems futile since you seem to have ignored all the articles i indicated and is still stubbornly sticking to your point without so much as a valid source. I am no longer interested in spending my valuable time arguing with you as it is pointless. Perhaps we can continue this discussion when the PAK FA is fully inducted and it's qualities are proven.
 
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@ gambit and death.by.chocolate

A debate with you seems futile since you seem to have ignored all the articles i indicated and is still stubbornly sticking to your point without so much as a valid source. I am no longer interested in spending my valuable time arguing with you as it is pointless. Perhaps we can continue this discussion when the PAK FA is fully inducted and it's qualities are proven.

..Rachel Madcow and her Raptor report has been discussed here ad nauseum. Once again, please use the PDF search feature find related posts read it and then come back with new ideas.
 
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Rachel Meadows looks like she enjoys the company of other females :disagree:
 
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..Rachel Madcow and her Raptor report has been discussed here ad nauseum. Once again, please use the PDF search feature find related posts read it and then come back with new ideas.

I admit that that Rachel's report may not be very reliable. But if you atleast had the patience to "glance" through my posts, you would have seen that my coments were not on the basis of that video (I did however post a link to the video because the report seemed to check out with many other reports). Despite citing many articles from different websites, both you and gambit are still stubbornly holding on to your precious F-22 while it is clear that you guys have not even read my posts properly. Can you guys atleast give 1 valid article to prove your point instead of just blabbering on? If what you say can be proved by valid sources, then I will accept it.
 
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The USA Defense Budget: $515,400,000,000 [2009]
The Russian Defense Budget: $43,200,000,000 [2008]
The USA Defense Budget is more then ten times that of Russia today an we cant really afford all we want in developing new fighter air craft, do you really think Russia can do more. Do you think Russia is even in the same ball park?
 
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The USA Defense Budget: $515,400,000,000 [2009]
The Russian Defense Budget: $43,200,000,000 [2008]
The USA Defense Budget is more then ten times that of Russia today an we cant really afford all we want in developing new fighter air craft, do you really think Russia can do more. Do you think Russia is even in the same ball park?

Russia does have a smaller defence budget than the US and that is the reason why many of the Russian projects have been plagued by funding difficulties. If Russia did have a bigger budget, I am sure they could have achieved much more. To make my example clear, I would like to take the example of Yak-41 or Yak-141 which would have been the first supersonic VTOL fighter in service if it had been fully developed.

But now, we are straying away from the topic with discussions on defence budgets. As of now, there is no denial that the F-22 is the most capable fighter in service. But with lower developmental, unit and maintainence costs, the PAK FA seems to be a more practical solution and it is this cost-effectiveness that I have been stressing from the beginning. The actual performance of the two aircraft can only be compared after the PAK FA is fully developed and has entered service.
 
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I think people are honestly forgetting something : F22 was put into service in 2005.PAk-FA will be put into service in 2016 or 17.By that time the f22 will be either going through MLU or 6th Generation Fighter entering service.F-22 is another F15 with stealth and much more maneuverability..Anyone doubting it's capability is a fool.Listen to the fighter pilots who have flown it - there are plenty of videos on youtube - they say they have never flown anything like F22.F22 is just too good hence current reduction to just 187.More then enough to take out the enemy.
 
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The USA Defense Budget: $515,400,000,000 [2009]
The Russian Defense Budget: $43,200,000,000 [2008]
The USA Defense Budget is more then ten times that of Russia today an we cant really afford all we want in developing new fighter air craft, do you really think Russia can do more. Do you think Russia is even in the same ball park?

Most posters here deriding Russian technology as inferior, is far from ground reality IMO. I am posting this to dubunk the myth that all US products are superior to others by default. I will give reasons for this. US didn't become a world leader by just spending more money. I feel compelled to recite the urban legend claiming that the Americans spent millions of dollars developing the Space Pen, and the Russians instead just used ordinary graphite pencil.

I am sorry, spending more money doesn't mean a thing. I have had the opportunity to work in both Indian and US research institutions. The passion of Indian researchers make up for the money at the disposal of their American counterparts, call me patriotic. But I can vouch that the money spent doesn't directly translate to quality of the product. For example if US spends 10 times more money than its competitor, you can't expect a 10 fold increase in quality. There is a definite edge but its not as much as you would think. US spends a lot of money to lead innovation. But when the concept is there, it is easier to reproduce it (i dont mean reverse engineering or ripping it off). You know which general direction to look for when trying to achieve what others have achieved, you are more confident because it has been achieved. And you dont spend time and effort that the original innovator spent with trial and error. It is no mean feat to be world leaders, I totally respect US scientific community but to achieve the same tech that some other achieved is considerably less costly. WWII, Cold War put humanity on a technological time warp and US has been and still is a great contributor to it.

Also we cant rule out corrupt people in a highly capitalistic US defense manufacturing industry proliferating critical technologies to Russia. You would be naive to think that Russia/US just shut down their tech espionage units after the end of the Cold war.

One more important thing which levels the playing field is the advent of Computer aided designs/modelling. Aircraft development is not as cost intensive as it once was if you have established the basic infrastructure. That nullifies the wealth advantage that US has. Except for critical technologies most other advanced tech can be got from public domain these days. Things are not as secretive in the world scientific community as it once was.

Also the money spent on defense is not entirely spent on R&D. US polices almost the entire world apart from fighting two wars. It takes a considerable amount of money to do that. Russian defense budget doesn't have to include that cost. Also the Russians don't induct as much weaponry as they develop. Russia exports almost as much as US does. Also cost of development is lesser than in the US. All these factors lets them invest more percentage of their defense budget in R&D than the US. So please don't underestimate Russian(for that matter Indian) R&D or just thrash their technology off the cuff.
 
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Most posters here deriding Russian technology as inferior, is far from ground reality IMO. I am posting this to dubunk the myth that all US products are superior to others by default. I will give reasons for this. US didn't become a world leader by just spending more money. I feel compelled to recite the urban legend claiming that the Americans spent millions of dollars developing the Space Pen, and the Russians instead just used ordinary graphite pencil.

I am sorry, spending more money doesn't mean a thing. I have had the opportunity to work in both Indian and US research institutions. The passion of Indian researchers make up for the money at the disposal of their American counterparts, call me patriotic. But I can vouch that the money spent doesn't directly translate to quality of the product. For example if US spends 10 times more money than its competitor, you can't expect a 10 fold increase in quality. There is a definite edge but its not as much as you would think. US spends a lot of money to lead innovation. But when the concept is there, it is easier to reproduce it (i dont mean reverse engineering or ripping it off). You know which general direction to look for when trying to achieve what others have achieved, you are more confident because it has been achieved. And you dont spend time and effort that the original innovator spent with trial and error. It is no mean feat to be world leaders, I totally respect US scientific community but to achieve the same tech that some other achieved is considerably less costly. WWII, Cold War put humanity on a technological time warp and US has been and still is a great contributor to it.

Also we cant rule out corrupt people in a highly capitalistic US defense manufacturing industry proliferating critical technologies to Russia. You would be naive to think that Russia/US just shut down their tech espionage units after the end of the Cold war.

One more important thing which levels the playing field is the advent of Computer aided designs/modelling. Aircraft development is not as cost intensive as it once was if you have established the basic infrastructure. That nullifies the wealth advantage that US has. Except for critical technologies most other advanced tech can be got from public domain these days. Things are not as secretive in the world scientific community as it once was.

Also the money spent on defense is not entirely spent on R&D. US polices almost the entire world apart from fighting two wars. It takes a considerable amount of money to do that. Russian defense budget doesn't have to include that cost. Also the Russians don't induct as much weaponry as they develop. Russia exports almost as much as US does. Also cost of development is lesser than in the US. All these factors lets them invest more percentage of their defense budget in R&D than the US. So please don't underestimate Russian(for that matter Indian) R&D or just thrash their technology off the cuff.

My point exactly!!
 
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Holy Hell:
World record: 500th Indian “Flying Coffin” Mig crashes. The IAF ...
Sep 10, 2008 ... The main cause for such frequent crashes of MiGs is attributed to non-availability of Advanced Jet Trainers (AJTs) in India. ...
rupeenews.com/.../world-record-200th-indian-flying-coffin-mig-29-crashes/
That was in 2008, some say the number is as high as 750. Thats about the size of the Pakistan Air Force.

All Russia is doing is pimping its Migs a little and you all keep on buying them. Who was it that said the definition of insanity was to keep on doing the same thing and expecting differant results.
Or you could call it digging the same hole deeper and burying more pliots in it.
 
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Holy Hell:
World record: 500th Indian “Flying Coffin” Mig crashes. The IAF ...
Sep 10, 2008 ... The main cause for such frequent crashes of MiGs is attributed to non-availability of Advanced Jet Trainers (AJTs) in India. ...
rupeenews.com/.../world-record-200th-indian-flying-coffin-mig-29-crashes/
That was in 2008, some say the number is as high as 750. Thats about the size of the Pakistan Air Force.

All Russia is doing is pimping its Migs a little and you all keep on buying them. Who was it that said the definition of insanity was to keep on doing the same thing and expecting differant results.
Or you could call it digging the same hole deeper and burying more pliots in it.

That's gonna heart.. :what:
 
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Holy Hell:
World record: 500th Indian “Flying Coffin” Mig crashes. The IAF ...
Sep 10, 2008 ... The main cause for such frequent crashes of MiGs is attributed to non-availability of Advanced Jet Trainers (AJTs) in India. ...
rupeenews.com/.../world-record-200th-indian-flying-coffin-mig-29-crashes/
That was in 2008, some say the number is as high as 750. Thats about the size of the Pakistan Air Force.

All Russia is doing is pimping its Migs a little and you all keep on buying them. Who was it that said the definition of insanity was to keep on doing the same thing and expecting differant results.
Or you could call it digging the same hole deeper and burying more pliots in it.

MiG-21s entered service in the IAF around 1963. That means all MiG-21s in service with the IAF is way past their expected service life. Just because these old MiG-21s crashed doesn't mean that the MiG-21 is not a capable platform and that cannot mean that Russian products are below standard. In fact, MiG-21s have proven to be a very capable fighter. Some 50 countries over four continents have flown the MiG-21, and it still serves many nations a half-century after its maiden flight. The fighter made aviation records. It is the most-produced supersonic jet aircraft in aviation history and the most-produced combat aircraft since the Korean War, and it had the longest production run of a combat aircraft (1959 to 1985 over all variants). In all probability, the MiG-21 will be a classic like the Supermarine Spitfire or P-51 Mustang.

All Russia is doing is pimping its Migs a little and you all keep on buying them.

For your information, the IAF has not bought any MiG-21s recently and infact, MiG-21s are no longer in production. The MiG-21s remain in service with the IAF and some have been recently been upgraded to the "Bison" standard because of severe fighter deficits and delays in our LCA program.

The MiG-29s have also had a good operational record in India. Infact, the IAF is currently upgrading all MiG-29s to the SMT standard and the Navy has placed an order for MiG-29Ks with more orders likely to follow. Why? Because the MiGs are a proven platform.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic, so why dont you post in the concerned thread or start one yourself?
 
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Your right go for another world record.
The India Air Force lost its 5th Mig-29 jet this year on Thursday. Around 10-12 laborers and a tractor driver had a narrow escape when the aircraft fell down.
Cute cartoon Another Mig-29 Crash... - India Daily
That was 2006, wonder how many more since then. Thats right Russia said they would fix them again.

O Now I understand what you are saying, after crashing 500 migs you have it right now...how many of these flying coffins did India buy anway.
 
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