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Pak Army lacks resolve to fight Taliban

Interesting discussion but many are missing some critical points.

Military resolve in a conflict is one issue but there are 2 other important aspects that need to be considered.

1. Political will.
Unless there is a real consensus of political will to do it then any military enterprise will flounder.
In Pakistan this was obvious with the pre-deal period of fighting. The political will of all parties was missing. Politically everyone was looking out for their own best interest. That meant in many ways stuff the populous.
Simply put the politicians were more worried about their political image than the real issues involved.
A military under a government can not operate in a unilateral manner. It needs a consensus from the government and parliament. The Pakistan parliament was so divided and the local provincial politicians were so self orientated you got what you deserved.

2. Media negativity.
The Pakistan press was so negative it did not matter what occurred the security forces were always in the wrong. Add to that the media also slammed the politicians who also use the media to thumb each other on the issue.
So having a media that was anti government and anti security forces ended up with everyone denouncing both. You got what you deserved again.

Can the PA actually deal with the issues in Swat and elsewhere?
That is going to be an interesting matter as it will depend not just on the PA, the FC but also on the media and the politicians. Unfortunately both media and politicians are fickle.
The media looks for the good sales pitch chase the sales, ($$$$), and does not care beyond that. Look at the current stories coming out now. The rant about displaced persons due to the fighting has started already and will continue. The undermining has begun.
So much for a Pakistan media looking out for the nation it resides in.

The politicians are not much better. The resolve has to be there. Unfortunately at the last minute there will be some who start to wane about it all and talks or backroom talks will start to make deals again. It will start soon.

Why should the PA make an effort when they wile b undermined by both politician and media.

Note the following extract for DAWN.COM
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | A new resolve?
Saturday, 25 Apr, 2009

The second point concerns the political component here in Pakistan. While the Pakistan Army isn’t under the full control of the civilians, it has made it clear that it will only fight when there is a political consensus for it to do so. Thus far the politicians have been woefully divided; whether the dissenters blame America as the root cause of militancy or harp on about fuzzy ideas of dialogue, they have not been able to unite on the need to take on the militants militarily. That discord may finally be changing. The PML-N, the PML-Q and the religious parties have voiced concerns about militants on the march, while the MQM has come out as the foremost critic of the peace deal in Swat. It is not clear yet whether they will support the military option, but the army cannot fail to note that the politicians are at last beginning to agree on the seriousness of the threat of militancy.

So it does not really mater if the PA has the resolve or not. Nothing will ever be done properly unless the other fickle sections got on board fully.

So far the GoP and the media are not really all there.
They collectively undermine both the security forces and Pakistan and doing a great job at it.
(are they paid by CIA, RAW or whom? ;) )

Also on the full issue how much of the current fighting is PA and how much is the FC and their new developed IC units?
This is one area that resolve could be look at with meaning.
 
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Ratus


The issue of political will is a bit of a red herring - what is required is for the army to deliver success against the talib - and this the army has not been willing to deliver in a sustained and therefore reliable manner.

Army action (and inaction) creates facts on ground - this is, it seems to me, undeniable - and army has to be held to account for this.

Listen, regardless of what it's reasons, the legitimacy of these reasons must be measured against the loss of innocent Pakistani lives.

Media negativity??

Again, listen, no one is arguing that a negative attitude by the media towards action againt the talib, is something we desire - it would have been ideal if the entire media saw their interest and their continued well being in the security and prosperity of Pakistan - but they don't and so it's not a perfect world -- but why evade responsibility of the state -- every state employs some very talented people to craft public diplomacy, as does Pakistan - the fact that we have not seen such an effort or rather we have not seen a successful public diplomacy - and we must ask why -- Pakistan have very successfully created persuasive puboic diplomacy over the last 60 years and the fact that it seems unwilling or iunable to do so now, begs or at least should beg, some questions.
 
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I see you questioning your own perfidy.

"ANY evidence to support the above, or are we looking at speculation?"

You've an Afghan taliban government and army encamped within your lands for seven and one-half years by your permission or abdication.

So too Hekmatyar and Haqqani.

So too Al Qaeda.

You've NEVER attacked the afghan taliban gov't or it's military leadership in Quetta. Little wonder.

You seem to wish for proof of this arms box delivered to that location on such n' such night? Not necessary when there's a forest of evidence on a grand, grand scale that says it all.

That's just in the west.

Thanks.
 
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Political determination is a fascinating subject when one considers the criticism levied at America's stamina to stay the course in Afghanistan, nevermind the wish of some to see the backs of FERENGHIs at the first opportunity.

We've been there for seven and one-half years and for all our mistakes nobody doubts our preparedness to engage the enemy at a command level-not just down with the troops.

The real puzzlement is the inability of the Pakistani army to assure it'll stay the course. A.M. has insisted upon educating me to the mantra that the army folded in SWAT after the ANP and that it's success in SWAT 1 had laid the groundwork for more until the ANP called off the dogs.

Others that I've read here and in op-eds suggest otherwise. Should I care in either case? Both SWAT and Bajaur have not been terribly large operations and the burden of Bajaur has fallen largely to the F.C.

In the south, of course, there's been no moves in either Waziristan or eastern Baluchistan to speak of for some time...Quetta area-never.

America's commitment isn't wavering. It's east of the Durand line where the questions exist.
 
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Political determination is a fascinating subject when one considers the criticism levied at America's stamina to stay the course in Afghanistan, nevermind the wish of some to see the backs of FERENGHIs at the first opportunity.

We've been there for seven and one-half years and for all our mistakes nobody doubts our preparedness to engage the enemy at a command level-not just down with the troops.


S-2 You keep forgetting the major differences between politicians, ie US vs Pakistani.
The true negativity coming out of the US re politicians was based on issue with the then CIC. Policy besides there was little criticism about resolve to stay in Afghanistan. Also US politicians appear, note appear, to be less on a day to day preoccupied by their electorate appearance/stance vs Pakistanis who have more interest in they electorate appearance/stance vs their political ability.

In many ways one should recognise the US politicians as ones that look toward national and state interests’ vs their own interests. A very different perspective top that in Pakistan.

Muse:
Political will is critical. Unless there is something from the elected government and a deliberate intent defined at that level you can not expect the army to act. Direction comes from the top not from semi quasi military government on the side with its own intent, ie the PA.
So far it has take a long time for the GoP to even realise there is a problem let alone make a plan and do something.

Yes the media took sides and picked the wrong one, the Taliban. But they did it for the $$ return not for truth.
I don’t negate the state’s responsibility for doing nothing to counter it. But that goes back to the politics. There was no politics but the all great “do nothing”.

True:
every state employs some very talented people to craft public diplomacy, as does Pakistan - the fact that we have not seen such an effort or rather we have not seen a successful public diplomacy - and we must ask why -- Pakistan have very successfully created persuasive puboic diplomacy over the last 60 years and the fact that it seems unwilling or iunable to do so now, begs or at least should beg, some questions

But who do you question on this as it has taken the state so long to even think there was something wrong.
BUT you don’t see the US media or the Indian media trashing their own in the way the Pakistani media has been carrying on.
So who is paying the media and why, the Taliban??

Army action (and inaction) creates facts on ground - this is, it seems to me, undeniable - and army has to be held to account for this

Listen, regardless of what it's reasons, the legitimacy of these reasons must be measured against the loss of innocent Pakistani lives.


True there are facts returned from ops BUT how about the facts returned about the behaviour of the TTP.
A beheading here and there, destruction of property, kidnapping or many, etc and the list goes on. But this seems small compared to that of the security forces why?
The TTP have caused a huge life loss for a start.

It always appears that people want the army in but the army is not to cause civilian life loss, civilian building damage. But its all OK when the TTP does it and few say boo.

You don’t get these sorts of conflicts with out regrettably a level of civilian loss. That is something people have to wake up to.

At present it seriously does not matter what the PA does it is going to be wrong.
Go there and fight - WRONG
Stay home in the cantons - WRONG.
The WRONG is from the media, the politicians and the local populous in both cases. A no win situation.

Much of the fighting ahs been done by the FC with PA support. Not the other way around. Interesting!

I will give the whole thing at least one more week of conflict and it will all be back to peace deals in the Taliban favour again.

It is not the PA who doesn’t have the resolve; Pakistan does not have the resolve. That is everyone.
 
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J
ANY evidence to support the above, or are we looking at speculation?

Secondly, is he referring to a particular General as having pursued these policies, or was this an institutional policy in place in the PA? How does he arrive at his conclusions?

Haqqani's opinion here is nothing but unsubstantiated, sensationalist generalization.

But, he is Pakistan's Ambassador to US, which all the more makes his allegations credible. Even if you don't want to take them at face value, truth is some where in between.

Even Ahmed Rashid, in Washington Post article (May5), makes allegations on the same lines. Here, I quote the relevant part.

In the past, many of these jihadist groups, including the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban, have been fostered by Pakistan's army and intelligence services -- at the cost of global security, democracy and civil society. The Bush administration ignored this trend for years while it pumped more than $11 billion into Pakistan. The bulk of that funding went to the military, which bought arms to fight Pakistan's historic enemy, India, rather than the insurgency.

The army's recent counteroffensive against the Taliban was prompted in part by U.S. pressure and, more significant, by a dramatic shift in public opinion toward opposing the Taliban. Many people are beginning to see the country threatened by a bloody internal revolution. This public pressure can lead to a major change in army policies toward India and Afghanistan.

washingtonpost.com

Of course, you are free to reject his allegations for lack of evidence, but remember evidence will not always be open and forthcoming in such situations, mostly the hypothesis is deducted based on observations over time. But then reality, despite your rejection, doesn't change, does it?.:agree:
 
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Just because you fill in the blanks does not mean you did so correctly, you did so to adapt the narrative to fit your perceptions.



ANY evidence to support the above, or are we looking at speculation?

Secondly, is he referring to a particular General as having pursued these policies, or was this an institutional policy in place in the PA? How does he arrive at his conclusions?


Haqqani's opinion here is nothing but unsubstantiated, sensationalist generalization.

Leave alone Haqqani. Kiyani was taped stating categorically, "Taliban is an asset to Pakistan" by the Americans.

Musharraf double-crossed US, Kayani a Taliban ally: NYT

Why do you think Americans are backing the civilian government? Because PA, under Musharraf took them for a ride. Militants were tipped off by ISI minutes before NATO forces were about ot strike them. It was US that prevented PA from staging a coup during the huge political crisis in Pakistan recently.

Which army in the world chooses not ot fight the militants when they are 50kms from their national capital? Why are we forgetting the Kiyani also headed the ISI, during WOT. And much of ISI's double games have been exposed since the US-led invasion by the Americans themselvs.

Keeping patriotism aside, one's mind boggles at the sheer nonchalance in the estabilishment.
 
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Pakistan and the Taliban:A real offensive, or a phoney war?


WHEN Barack Obama unveiled his new policy on Pakistan and Afghanistan in March, he gave a warning that al-Qaeda, the Taliban and other jihadist gangs were “killing Pakistan from within”. The generals who guard Pakistan’s national security had shown only “mixed results” in combating the threat, he said. They would no longer enjoy a “blank cheque”; they must show that they are fighting in good faith.

On April 26th, Pakistan gave a glimpse of this: by launching an attack on the Pakistan Taliban in parts of North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) recently overrun by the militants. It began with an assault in Lower Dir, near the border with Afghanistan, in which the army claims to have killed 70 militants and lost ten soldiers, and which displaced some 30,000 people.


On April 28th the army launched a bigger offensive in the scenic Buner valley, just 100km (62 miles) from Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital. As helicopter gunships and jets strafed their positions, the Taliban took around 70 policemen and soldiers hostage. But showing more resolve than it had previously, the army said airborne troops had been dropped behind Taliban lines and freed 18 of the captives. Major-General Athar Abbas, a military spokesman, said 50 militants had been killed in the first two days of fighting. He said it would take a week to drive the Taliban out of Buner.

This sudden violence seems to have been provoked, in part, by embarrassing media reports of the Taliban’s capture of Buner. Many of the bearded fighters had come from the neighbouring district of Swat, a Taliban stronghold, where NWFP’s government, at the army’s urging, had brokered a ceasefire with the militants in February. Under the terms of this pact, the government promised to institute Islamic law, sharia, throughout the Malakand division (whose seven districts, including Swat and Buner, make up about a third of NWFP’s area). In return, the local Taliban, led by a zealot called Mullah Fazalullah, were to lay down their arms.

The Taliban’s advance into Buner, which had resisted Talibanisation, was a violation of the deal, but at first neither the government nor the army seemed concerned. America, which had opposed the Swat deal from the start, was furious. On April 22nd Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state, said Pakistan was becoming a “mortal threat” to the world; its government and people needed to “speak out forcefully against a policy that is ceding more and more territory to the insurgents”. On April 25th she expressed concern for the safety of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal if the Taliban were to “topple the government”.

Some Western diplomats considered this scaremongering. The Taliban are near Islamabad because the capital, a 1960s new town, was built close to the rugged border area where these Pushtun tribesmen live. But there is no chance of their seizing Islamabad. If, unthinkably, the disparate warlords who make up the Pakistan Taliban were to mass together for a frontal attack, Pakistan’s army, which is 620,000-strong and well-drilled for conventional warfare, could crush them. Indeed, many pundits reckon that an Islamist takeover in Pakistan would be possible only with the army’s support.

The Taliban, almost exclusively Pushtun, are not popular in Pakistan. Though often anti-American, and bothered by a growing extremist fringe, most Pakistanis are moderate. Unlike some Taliban leaders, Mullah Fazalullah is not known to have links to al-Qaeda. Yet Mrs Clinton’s warning points to an uncomfortable fact: since 2001, despite lavish American sponsorship, including over $10 billion in military aid, Pakistan has only become more turbulent and violent.


Even the country’s president, Asif Zardari, has conceded that the Taliban hold “huge amounts of land”. The army deserves much of the blame. During a seven-year campaign in NWFP and the Pushtun tribal areas adjoining it, where 120,000 troops are currently deployed, it has oscillated between fighting militants and making deals that, typically, give militants the run of their areas in return for a promise (rarely kept) of good behaviour.

The Taliban in Pakistan are linked by ideology and Pushtun tribal kinship to those fighting in Afghanistan. In South and North Waziristan, two ever-hostile tribal areas, the local commanders, including Baitullah Mehsud, leader of the Pakistani Taliban, are widely believed to play host to al-Qaeda’s core leadership. They also send their long-haired gunmen across the border to fight Western and Afghan forces.

For America, Britain and other Western countries there is a direct connection between militancy along the lawless “Af-Pak” borderlands and jihadist bombings in Western cities. Yet Pakistan is the biggest victim of the militant tide. Around half a million people are estimated to have been displaced by fighting in the north-west. From their havens there, many jihadist terrorist groups have launched attacks on the state. Pakistan has suffered over 60 suicide-bombings in each of the past two years, on hotels, restaurants and mosques in Peshawar, Lahore and Islamabad, and on army facilities. Benazir Bhutto, Mr Zardari’s wife, a two-time former prime minister and leader of the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) who was murdered in December 2007, was one high-profile victim. Foreigners are also at risk. In Peshawar, NWFP’s increasingly nervy capital, two Afghan diplomats and one Iranian have been kidnapped. America’s consul last year had her (bulletproof) car sprayed with bullets.

Even if the Taliban cannot conquer Islamabad, they might soon grab some lesser strategic place—just imaginably, Peshawar; or they could close down the motorway linking it to Islamabad. Mr Obama’s new policy, which treats Pakistan as the main threat to regional stability, is intended to arrest this slide. It will come with a lot more money, including $1.5 billion a year in non-military aid over the next five years. At a conference in Tokyo on April 17th America, Britain, Japan, Saudi Arabia, South Korea and other “friends of Pakistan” also pledged $5.3 billion in budget support and other aid. Pakistan will be expected to provide better accounting for how it spends this money; for years its squandering of America’s war-on-terror cash has been an open joke.

The mess in Malakand
Like a spectre, the Malakand ceasefire had been waiting to test America’s renewed commitment to securing Pakistan. It was agreed between NWFP’s provincial government and a veteran Swati Islamist, Sufi Muhammad, who is Mullah Fazalullah’s father-in-law, shortly before the inaugural visit to Islamabad of Richard Holbrooke, Mr Obama’s “Af-Pak” envoy. America considered the pact yet another abdication to the Taliban by an army that has sometimes inexplicably underperformed. By one Western estimate, it has lost 70% of its battles against the Taliban. It has also lost over 1,500 soldiers.

Another cause for alarm is that Swat is not like the tribal areas, which have always been largely beyond the writ of Pakistan. Swat, by contrast, is a thickly populated former tourist destination, famous for honeymooning couples and Pakistan’s only ski-lift. The Taliban’s capture of Swat therefore contained a promise of further militant expansion, even into Punjab, Pakistan’s richest and most populous province. Nor, judged on the failure of earlier deals, did the ceasefire ever seem likely to weaken the militants, as the government hoped it would. When it was eventually approved on April 13th by Mr Zardari after much anxious foot-dragging, an American spokesman said it violated the principles of democracy and human rights.

But most Pakistanis seemed to welcome the deal, believing it would end recent carnage in Swat. Since mid-2007, when Mullah Fazalullah and his followers took up arms in protest at an army raid on a jihadist citadel in Islamabad, the Red Mosque, they have blown up 200 non-Islamic schools in the district, beheaded scores of government workers and alleged spies, and periodically kidnapped companies of soldiers sent to fight them. Preaching class warfare, as well as jihad, they have seized hundreds of houses and landholdings, including many of Swat’s prized orchards. Half of the district’s police officers and many administrators have fled, as have most landowners. Around 800 people have been killed, most during a heavy-handed army action that began last October, and displaced at least 100,000 people.

AP

The Taliban in Buner, with Koran and Kalashnikov
The Taliban behaved repellently during that offensive. Residents of Mingora, Swat’s biggest town, awoke daily to find still-dripping corpses littering its central plaza, or dangling from lamp-posts there. They dubbed it Khooni Chowk, or “Bloody Square”. Yet almost all agree the army killed more civilians than did the militants. “The army was aiming its shells at ordinary people. Or else, did they hit our houses every day by mistake?” asks Fazal Rahman Nono, a local resident.

If few Swatis have much love for the Taliban, practically none say they want a military operation to dislodge them; nor do the army and NWFP’s government. General Abbas says that if the army had continued with its last offensive in Swat, “the whole valley would have been flattened”. He also defends the ceasefire deal; he says it has isolated the radical Mullah Fazalullah by bolstering Mr Muhammad, who was until recently in prison and disgrace, having led an army of Swatis to be slaughtered by American bombers in Afghanistan in 2001.

But far from muzzling his son-in-law’s jihadist invective—which Mullah Fazalullah once broadcast regularly, earning himself the moniker “Mullah Radio”—Mr Muhammad has echoed it. Ahead of a rally on April 19th to celebrate Mr Zardari’s signing of the ceasefire accord, Mr Muhammad was allegedly primed by the provincial government to tell the Taliban to disarm. Instead, addressing a crowd of 40,000 in Mingora, he denounced Pakistan’s constitution and said democracy was for infidels. Similarly, Mullah Fazalullah’s commanders say the deal is a first step to imposing sharia throughout Pakistan.

They clearly have no intention of ceding Swat to the government. Instead, the ceasefire has enabled them to tighten their grip on it. Last week they occupied the office of Médecins Sans Frontières, an NGO, in Saidu Sharif. In early April, they occupied the northern Swati town of Bahrain, and on April 28th shot and injured one policeman there and kidnapped another. Speaking by phone, a local resident says: “Ours is a life of fear and death.” Yet the government could probably have lived with this, if the Taliban had not embarrassed it by taking Buner.

A step too far
On April 24th, four days before the army launched its offensive, the Taliban leader in Buner, Commander Khalil, welcomed your correspondent to his requisitioned house in the village of Sultanwas. He claimed to have been sent to the district by Mullah Fazalullah to check that sharia was being followed, in accordance, he said, with the terms of ceasefire agreement. Yet he and his men had proceeded to chase away the district police and a few local resisters, killing eight. They then looted every government and NGO office and well-to-do house or business they could find. Pointing to a large trove of stolen computers, American-donated food aid and jerry-cans of petrol, he said: “We’ll give them to the poor, who really need them. These houses also belonged to rich people, who ran away when we arrived because they were scared to face our justice.”

America is delighted by the army’s subsequent assault in Buner; a Pentagon spokesman called it “exactly the appropriate response”. Some American officials believe the army will even resume its offensive in Swat; and this time crush Mullah Fazalullah. Such optimism might seem justified by a modest improvement in Pakistan’s fortunes on other fronts. Courtesy of an IMF loan of $7.6 billion, the offerings of its friends, and some penny-pinching economic management, it is no longer at risk of insolvency, as it was late last year. And in March, skilful diplomacy by the army and America averted a political crisis sparked by Mr Zardari’s efforts to have his more-popular rival, Nawaz Sharif, rendered ineligible for election. If Pakistan now has a window of relative political and economic stability, could Malakand prove to be a turning-point in Pakistan’s flagging war with extremism?

Probably not. The government has made no effort to use the ceasefire to extend its writ in Swat. Nor has it announced any plan to abrogate the deal. And the army shows little sign of wanting to resume the fighting in Swat. If this suggests Pakistan’s top brass may, under pressure from America, be doing no more than the minimum (or slightly less than that) demanded of them, it would not be for the first time. One of the tricks used by the former president, Pervez Musharraf, was to arrest a few of the former jihadist assets of the army’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency; then later release them.

America has endured many such false hopes in Pakistan. Another was in early 2007 when the ISI backed a Taliban commander in South Waziristan, called Muhammad Nazir, to expel some Uzbek militants who had found refuge there. The army suggested that foreign militants would no longer be welcome in the tribal area. But Mr Nazir did not evict his Arab terrorist guests, and in February he declared a new alliance with South Waziristan’s main Taliban commander, Mr Mehsud, the alleged mastermind of Ms Bhutto’s murder.

In a more recent setback, Abdul Aziz, head of Islamabad’s Red Mosque, was released from jail on April 16th. He had survived the army’s assault on the mosque (though over a hundred, and perhaps many more, of his followers did not) by fleeing dressed in a black burqa. Within hours of his release Mr Aziz was back in the pulpit, claiming credit for the introduction of sharia to Swat, and predicting the same for all Pakistan.

Another act of Pakistani slipperiness, the government’s failure to dismantle the latest incarnation of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) terrorist group that is alleged to have carried out a murderous commando-style attack in Mumbai last November, may be most troubling. In response to strong American, British and, naturally, Indian pressure, it arrested half a dozen mostly mid-level LET members, and vowed to try them for this crime. But there is little prospect that the group’s senior leaders, currently under house arrest, will face justice. And the government has already failed in its obligation to take over LET’s assets, which include schools, dispensaries and hospitals. In Punjab, which is home to LET (a group formerly trained by the ISI to fight in Indian-held Kashmir), the government has taken over 20 LET schools and five hospitals. Yet the group is estimated to retain control over an estimated 50-70 other properties, which it holds in other names.

Pakistan’s failure to suppress LET invites the thought that the army has not entirely abandoned its old proxy. And it still considers India, against whom it has fought three full-scale wars, to be its main enemy. To some extent, this obsession with India illuminates the army’s troubles in the north-west. By maintaining its readiness for a conventional war on Punjab’s plains, it has been slow to acquire the necessary counter-insurgency skills; hence its brutish reliance on artillery fire in Swat.

Worse, the army stands accused of protecting some of its former militant allies in the tribal areas, to preserve them for future (or perhaps current) use in Afghanistan and Indian-held Kashmir. This allegation is often cited to explain the army’s failures. But there is rarely evidence for it. Increasingly, though, senior American officials decry Pakistan’s obsession with India. General David Petraeus, chief of America’s Central Command, argues that Pakistan faces greater danger from home-grown extremism. With a smile, General Abbas suggests he doesn’t think much of this: “When people come here and tell us about our neighbour, how good or bad he is, allow us to take it with a pinch of salt.”

Rigid, deceitful and, it seems, convinced that Islamist militancy poses a much lesser threat to Pakistan than America reckons, the army will always be an awkward ally along the north-west frontier. Then again America is a difficult friend for Pakistan. Its pressing objective is to stanch the flow of Taliban into Afghanistan and to crush al-Qaeda’s leadership; these are not priorities for many Pakistanis. And if the Pakistani army’s efforts against the Taliban have not been successful, it reasonably counters that the cross-border insurgency has been inflamed by America’s own blunders in Afghanistan and its missile strikes into Pakistan.

The army considers that it takes a longer-term view of what is required for its troubled north-west. In Swat, for example, it seems to think it would be fruitless to pulverise the Taliban, and in the process kill many civilians, while Pakistan’s civil institutions are too weak to fill the vacuum that would be created. This is not entirely unreasonable. Local dissatisfaction with Pakistan’s slothful and corrupt justice system—so much worse, Swatis say, than the traditional system of modified sharia that it replaced in 1969—has helped fuel Mullah Fazalullah’s insurgency.

Many also seem to believe that, once sharia is instituted, the brutal militants will fade away. Inam-ur-Rahman, head of the Swat peace committee, a group that speaks to both the army and Taliban, says: “For God’s sake, let’s implement the deal. It will bring peace.” Alas, that sounds naive. But even a government determined to crush the Taliban will struggle without the support of the local population. “Even if you take a Pushtun person to paradise by force, he will not go,” adds Mr Rahman. “He will go with you only by friendly means.”
 
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Leave alone Haqqani. Kiyani was taped stating categorically, "Taliban is an asset to Pakistan" by the Americans.
Where is the tape and transcript? What was the exact quote? What was the context of the comment?

Its all rubbish without evidence and details, and there is no evidence except the usual 'anonymous sources' claiming this and that.

Why do you think Americans are backing the civilian government? Because PA, under Musharraf took them for a ride. Militants were tipped off by ISI minutes before NATO forces were about ot strike them. It was US that prevented PA from staging a coup during the huge political crisis in Pakistan recently.

The American's are now also wishing Musharraf was back. Musharraf however had to go, he had become a polarizing figure in Pakistan and a liability in the sense that he was distracting Pakistan from the insurgency.

This GoP has in fact made an even bigger mess through peace deals than Musharraf did.

By the way, Petraeus's own comment is that the US has 'one unambiguous case of someone tipping off insurgents before a raid', and the raid was being conducted by Pakistani forces, not NATO.

That's it - one unambiguous case. And it could have been anyone in the chain who was aware of the raid, it does not mean the ISI as an institution has a policy of leaking out information on raids. It would be absurd to come to that conclusion on the basis of 'one raid'.

On the coup, there is nothing but speculation on that front either - all American and Pakistani officials have denied that, including Mullen, who was supposed to have convinced Kiyani not to do so.

The US media have an overinflated opinion about their officials and what they can do.

Gossip is not reality.
 
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But, he is Pakistan's Ambassador to US, which all the more makes his allegations credible. Even if you don't want to take them at face value, truth is some where in between.
Yes, but his book was compiled primarily when he was an academic and a noted PA basher and PPP supporter - his wife was elected in the 2008 elections on a PPP ticket, before he was tapped for Ambassador.
Even Ahmed Rashid, in Washington Post article (May5), makes allegations on the same lines. Here, I quote the relevant part.

Of course, you are free to reject his allegations for lack of evidence, but remember evidence will not always be open and forthcoming in such situations, mostly the hypothesis is deducted based on observations over time. But then reality, despite your rejection, doesn't change, does it?.:agree:

Actually Rashid is closer to the truth than Haqqani is.

Haqqani claims that the PA used these groups 'to maintain power and delegitimize the government', that is nothing but speculation.

The PA did support the Taliban during the Afghan civil war, as India did for the Northern Alliance warlords, and it did maintain links with some Taliban factions after the overthrow, for a variety of reasons.

The primary reason being (based on precedent) that the US would leave Afghanistan unfinished again and Afghanistan would once more disintegrate into civil war and chaos. That belief was only heightened with the US invasion of Iraq. Maintaining contacts with the Taliban then became essential, since they would offer Pakistan the option of once more trying to stabilize Afghanistan, if Afghanistan descended into chaos, or if a pro-Indian regime allowed India to mount destabilizing operations into Pakistan.

There was however never any direct and tangible support for the Taliban as a matter of official policy during that time (post US invasion). In fact Musharraf started the process of weeding out any potential militant sympathizers from the ranks of the ISI.

These are not my thoughts alone - the rationale behind Pakistan continuing to maintain contacts with the Taliban and not going after the Quetta Shura have been extensively analyzed by Western experts as well.

There is nothing to support Haqqani's contention.

Thanks
 
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Political will is critical. Unless there is something from the elected government and a deliberate intent defined at that level you can not expect the army to act. Direction comes from the top not from semi quasi military government on the side with its own intent, ie the PA.
Gen. Kiyani is still pleading for that 'national resolve', at a point where it should have been clear.:disagree:
RAWALPINDI: Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani said that present security situation requires that all elements of national power should work in close harmony to fight the menace of terrorism and extremism.
Kayani urges national harmony to fight terrorism, extremism
The GoP and GoNWFP have still not categorically come out and said that the Swat deal is over. And Taliban atrocities, as the conflict continues, are highlighted better in the Western media than the Pakistani one.
 
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Pakistan and the Taliban:A real offensive, or a phoney war?

We will find out in a few weeks. The TTP-S will not lay down arms without significant damage inflicted upon it, but given that the GoNWFP has not even canceled the existing Swat deal, I am uncertain if they will persevere with this.

Close to a million IDP's expected from Swat alone, to add to the existing 500,000.
 
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People at ground level seem to think Taliban and PA are two sides of same coin. If one looks at this report, it seems PA has started shelling even before civilians vacated the place.

Cynicism among Pakistani refugees

By Abdul Hai Kakar
BBC Urdu service, Peshawar

The tent cities are growing in the district of Swabi, in north-west Pakistan: swelled with the thousands fleeing the fighting in nearby Buner district.

Last month, Taleban from the troubled district of Swat moved south into Buner and overran it, occupying government offices and police stations, and closing down locally popular Sufi shrines which they oppose.

The army moved in a couple of weeks ago to counter them, and is now engaged in heavy fighting in the area.

According to Shahram Khan, the head of Swabi district government, around 150,000 people have fled Buner during the last few days. This is three times the figure of 40,000 previously provided by the federal government.

Most of these people have ended up in about a dozen refugee camps set up by the government in Swabi.

'Pouring in'

Many of these camps are funded by private individuals. Others are supported by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the World Food Programme, others by foreign and local NGOs.

“ The Taleban captured our area and... threatened local people. But that wasn't as bad as the shelling by the army ”
Nasir Ali, displaced high-school student


The government of North West Frontier Province has already earmarked money to take care of the refugees, and it is now reaching most camps.

One such camp is located in Chhota Lahore town of Swabi district.

There are rows of tents supplied by the UNHCR. Most are family shelters, but some also house one school each for boys and girls, as well as a medical dispensary.

"Tents are in short supply, and we also expect food shortages in coming days as refugees from Buner continue to pour in," says Kabir Khan, the administrator of the camp.

The refugees are, in the main, happy with the supply of food and other necessities, but nonetheless they say they cannot live in a refugee camp forever.

'Talks needed'

"Our problem is not here, but back in Buner," says Bakht-e-Rahman, a refugee from the Cheena area of Buner.

"Even if you give us a palace to live in here, the problem up there remains. For that, the government needs to talk to the Taleban."

I point out that talks have been held, but after the government met all its demands, the Taleban still refused to lay down arms.

But Mr Rahman was not convinced, saying the negotiations which surrounded the creation of the peace deal were not exhaustive enough to tackle all the issues.

Most displaced people say they have left their homes not because of the Taleban's excesses, but because of shelling by the army.

"The Taleban captured our area and started patrolling the streets, they snatched vehicles from NGO staff, government officials and private individuals, and they threatened local people," says Nasir Ali, a high school student.

"But it wasn't as bad as the shelling by the army - that was what actually forced us to leave our homes."

Perils of fleeing

Many people waited a long time before they got the opportunity to flee. And then they walked for hours to reach safety, with women and children in tow.

Rahim Khan, from Chamno village, is one of them.

"When the shelling got too close and the women and children started to cry, we decided to leave, but we couldn't. Several people died or got hurt trying to get to the road.

"Then there was a lull in shelling, and about 1,000 villagers fled. About 500 are still there."

Mr Khan's family, which includes several women and children and his old mother, walked for three hours before they were able to get a ride to Swabi.

'Same coin'

I interviewed a large number of refugees in Swabi, but I did not meet a single person who actually saw the army and the Taleban as members of opposing camps.

Instead, I heard, they were "two sides of the same coin".

"The Pakistani army has hurt us badly - but while they have killed civilians, I swear I haven't seen a single shell directed at the Taleban," says Shahdad Khan, a refugee sheltering at a camp in Swabi's Shave Ada area.

Others question the Pakistani military's stated commitment to "eliminating" the Taleban.

"No way," Siraj tells me.

"The army brought the Taleban to our area! It's politics. The Taleban and the army are brothers."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/w ... 040858.stm
 
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People at ground level seem to think Taliban and PA are two sides of same coin. If one looks at this report, it seems PA has started shelling even before civilians vacated the place.

Depends upon which journalist you read.

Some journalists in the Pakistani papers, including the eminent Rahimullah Yousufzai, have reported that most people they came in contact with were thankful for the Army starting the operation and hoped they would eliminate the Taliban, and blamed the Taliban, and not the Army.

The different viewpoints are to be expected - people are being forced to leave their homes and face an uncertain future. Many people were 'happy' about Nizam-e-adl so long as it brought about peace.

And no, the PA has not 'started shelling people's homes before they leave', though collateral damage is to be unfortunately expected. The militants are also using mortars and rockets, and the PA has accused them of targeting Army positions and patrols in populated areas causing civilian casualties.

People who had hope in the NAR, and would have accepted life under the Taliban in return for peace, will understandably be bitter about this military operation.

"The army brought the Taleban to our area! It's politics. The Taleban and the army are brothers."

The Crusaders, Zionists, Hindus or 'agencies' - take your pick.

The belief in 'conspiracy theories' pointing the finger of blame at the first three also result in the scapegoating of the ubiquitous 'agencies' for other 'inexplicable domestic ills'.
 
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