PAF's MBDA-SPADA 2000 Surface to Air Missile System.

[GURU DUTT]

I wasn't even referring to any Naval ship expansion. Nor an aircraft carrier strike group is feasible or needed for a small country like Pakistan. My post was written specifically for the fact that the PN might get overwhelmed due to the IN. In which case, if the land based SAM system was integrated, mobile and provided long range multi layer defense capability, it'll stop the IN's air fleet's movement to majority of the degree away from the ports, out by over a 100 mile due to long range SAMS. That's a lot of cover for a smaller area like the coastal line around the Arabian Sea that touches Pakistan.
Then, if there were about 4 squadrons of BVR capable jets in a dedicated Naval support role, or Naval Air Arm, that would cause tremendous amount of pain for the IN. They'll have to push their AC out by some 200 miles and that reduces their operational radius down to a quarter of its real effectiveness. Not to mention, the IN ships will be hesitant in coming too close to the Pakistani sea lanes due to heavy air support and SAM support combination.
Lastly, a good number of subs with AIP - MESMA, would cause additional pain. A blockade can totally be avoided with the scenario above. In the long run the IN will win. BUT....due to both countries being nuclear.....no one can predict how long will the 'long run' be!

well sir about the long range sams please enlighten us that which are the long range sams you have which have more than 100 miles range to counter INs Air Arm(MIG29Kcarrier based & land based SU30 mkis + few jaguars)

secondli are u sure you will be able to spare say 1 squad each of your 4 BVR capable jets dedicated for naval support role when they have to engage land based Indian platforms like SU30 , M2k & Mig 29s

thrdli we dont have to push or put owr CBGs as near as you sugested as the fighting radiur on owr MIG29Ks withowt extrnal feul tanks is 800KMs among other

now your "good subs" with AIP-MESMA well we already are in process of getting P8s which are considered to be best anty sub platforms in the world and also the most modern with best light , medium anty sub torpedoes & latest anty ship missiles

so tell me what & how your SPADA 2000 can post any serous threat to AIF & Ins Naval air arm if there is a indo pak war

Thanks In advance

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

well asan to kuch bhi nahi hota per jane do baat door tak nikal jayegi

on topic the thread is about MBDA SPADA 2000 which is a short-medium range missile system which is great for low level interception but unlike the SAM systems across the border which are all highly mobile SPADA 2000 is a stationarry platform which is a juicy target for BVR anty radiation missiles , hunter killer drones and long range PGMs

now why dint we attacked you during 26/11 mumbai episode well bro when owr work and targets were achieved (making pakistan go on defensive and getting world sympathy and owr armed forces gettong more potent teeth P8 & C130J from the US)

why on earht we should attack a country which is bieng torn apart by its own strategikk(terrorism & bomb blasts) assets and its so called "friends not masters"(espionage & drone attacks)

SPADA 2000 is not stationery platform its a highly mobile unit.Its useless to deploy static short range Sams,where enemy knows u are there and can take u out with long range PGM.SR-SAMS are effective when used as part of layered defense and are mobile and camoflaged allowing surprise.

 

[GURU DUTT]

SPADA 2000 is not stationery platform its a highly mobile unit.

Thanks for the information bro but i thought that after looking from this foto and as some other member also commented thanks for the input

 

[Viper0011.]

well sir about the long range sams please enlighten us that which are the long range sams you have which have more than 100 miles range to counter INs Air Arm(MIG29Kcarrier based & land based SU30 mkis + few jaguars)

secondli are u sure you will be able to spare say 1 squad each of your 4 BVR capable jets dedicated for naval support role when they have to engage land based Indian platforms like SU30 , M2k & Mig 29s

thrdli we dont have to push or put owr CBGs as near as you sugested as the fighting radiur on owr MIG29Ks withowt extrnal feul tanks is 800KMs among other
now your "good subs" with AIP-MESMA well we already are in process of getting P8s which are considered to be best anty sub platforms in the world and also the most modern with best light , medium anty sub torpedoes & latest anty ship missiles
so tell me what & how your SPADA 2000 can post any serous threat to AIF & Ins Naval air arm if there is a indo pak war

Here we go. No matter how much you try to put sense into someone, you can't do that with the Indian community. This WASN'T a tit for tat statement like you guys wants everything to be. Pakistan is a defensive country and my statements were from that perspective. But, here, I'll give you what you wanted to hear and I'll stroke your childish ego. Indian military is the most state of the art institution on the planet. They fly jets that are invisible and their pilots are supermen. No matter what the other party deploys, it doesn't make a difference. In the next few years, the US and the Israeli (the real elite) militaries will be begging the Indians to train their military men. HAPPY now??? JEES. Trying to debate with you guys is a waste of time.
Now back to my statement, HQ series, the latest ones offer 100 miles protection, they were essentially built on Russian S-300 series and some use S-400 technology too. That's China for you. So yea, if these are based around the ocean in large numbers like how China did it in three layers, you're super jets will have a hard time and they'll have to remain at a distance. Be those land based Almighty SU-30's or Jags or Mig 29's. Get with the program instead of arguing like a 12 years old child.

The SUB's can launch cruise missiles and other missiles. PN has modified them. So, you have to protect your assets, it doesn't matter how many you have or not. You can't risk your one or two aircraft carriers. PLEASE, do NOT use the term CBG's. You guys are FAR AWAY from having carrier 'GROUPS'. lol. You are not the US Navy and you won't be one. Having two air craft carriers and a few support ships doesn't make it a 'carrier group'. lol.
And yes, if there were 4 squadrons dedicated to the Navy with BVR and other tech like the Chinese carrier killer missile or K-400 (which strike out to 150 miles at Hypersonic speed), you WILL keep your assets out of that range. unless you REALLY want to risk the only air craft carrier you possess. THAT's a dangerous bet and will result in billions of loss!!!! Again, you are not the US Navy, and acting something you ain't will cause you a LOT of money and jets too. I don't think Indian planner would even consider that bet. Risking the carrier assets against Pakistan might leave you without one to confront the Chinese and to project your force on little countries like Sri Lanka, etc. So trust me, these Naval assets will stay AWAY from the Pakistani integrated air defense if they employ it as I was recommending.

 

[Major Sam]

Thanks for this link. Do you have any info regarding pakistan AESA radars?

@Aeronaut @Oscar do we have AESA Radars . as US gave us TPS 77 are these are AESA whats their sophistication level in detection of Rafel?

@orangzaib can you tel me about this? which i asked above. thanks

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Trust me you proved to be what you are... finally.

Other than nonsensical rants [which is what we expect from your types... without and head or tail... coming straight out of your rear...]

Clarify on the points.. since you are a **** and a Muslim and would not lie as it is a sin in this month.

1. Have you seen the HQ series in the service of Pakistani armed forces or any link or source to prove the baseless claims.
2. How do you base a land based system in the ocean... elaborate on this new **** physics.
3. Which subs in PN can launch cruise missiles and what cruise missiles.
4. When did the PN modify that/those subs.

I sincerely hope that you are a true muslim and not resort to further lying to cover up your lies again... If the above points proves to be a lie and straight out of your rear... which is the most likely case... we expect from your types.

Hahaha ask @Oscar n @nuclearpak abt it...

 

[Jango]

Hahaha ask @Oscar n @nuclearpak abt it...

Can't say definitely, but have heard some very strong rumors regarding the HQ series.
@Dazzler, @notorious_eagle are much better placed than me for answering this question.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Can't say definitely, but have heard some very strong rumors regarding the HQ series.
@Dazzler, @notorious_eagle are much better placed than me for answering this question.

Its best we act stupid and keep it that way because i have no intention of getting picked up by the MI .

Its bad enough that the acquisition of the HQ-9 batteries was made public on this very forum, at-least the revelation of R-Darter BVRAAM had the blessings of the higher ups in PAF but the HQ-9, C602 and C803 revelations certainly did not. After this leak, PAF and PN put a lid on all these leaks with an iron fist.

Do you think its a mere a coincidence that in 2008-2009 we were getting bits and pieces almost every month, but now we haven't received a single leak for the past 3 years. Best we keep our mouths shut instead of regretting it later, lets keep this discussion reserved for the TT Forum.

 

[Dazzler]

Its best we act stupid and keep it that way because i have no intention of getting picked up by the MI .

Its bad enough that the acquisition of the HQ-9 batteries was made public on this very forum, at-least the revelation of R-Darter BVRAAM had the blessings of the higher ups in PAF but the HQ-9, C602 and C803 revelations certainly did not. After this leak, PAF and PN put a lid on all these leaks with an iron fist.

Do you think its a mere a coincidence that in 2008-2009 we were getting bits and pieces almost every month, but now we haven't received a single leak for the past 3 years. Best we keep our mouths shut instead of regretting it later, lets keep this discussion reserved for the TT Forum.

replace HQ-9 with HQ-18

status of induction is unknown

 

[Bratva]

Its best we act stupid and keep it that way because i have no intention of getting picked up by the MI .

Its bad enough that the acquisition of the HQ-9 batteries was made public on this very forum, at-least the revelation of R-Darter BVRAAM had the blessings of the higher ups in PAF but the HQ-9, C602 and C803 revelations certainly did not. After this leak, PAF and PN put a lid on all these leaks with an iron fist.

Do you think its a mere a coincidence that in 2008-2009 we were getting bits and pieces almost every month, but now we haven't received a single leak for the past 3 years. Best we keep our mouths shut instead of regretting it later, lets keep this discussion reserved for the TT Forum.

And it is on this very forum, truth of saab destruction came out very next day, PAF hasn't done enough to put a lid on leaks

 

[notorious_eagle]

replace HQ-9 with HQ-18

status of induction is unknown

Sir

HQ-18's were being procured recently, PAF completed their feasibility studies around 2 years ago. HQ-9 and its upgraded version were procured much before that and are in service.

And it is on this very forum, truth of saab destruction came out very next day, PAF hasn't done enough to put a lid on leaks

Its still a grey area, there has been no official or unofficial confirmation by someone from the higher up in either PAF or Saab. And believe me; you have no idea of the progress that has been made in terms of networking, data-linking, avionics, weapon systems, electronic warfare and the new curriculum of training that PAF has implemented.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Here we go. No matter how much you try to put sense into someone, you can't do that with the Indian community. This WASN'T a tit for tat statement like you guys wants everything to be. Pakistan is a defensive country and my statements were from that perspective. But, here, I'll give you what you wanted to hear and I'll stroke your childish ego. Indian military is the most state of the art institution on the planet. They fly jets that are invisible and their pilots are supermen. No matter what the other party deploys, it doesn't make a difference. In the next few years, the US and the Israeli (the real elite) militaries will be begging the Indians to train their military men. HAPPY now??? JEES. Trying to debate with you guys is a waste of time.
Now back to my statement, HQ series, the latest ones offer 100 miles protection, they were essentially built on Russian S-300 series and some use S-400 technology too. That's China for you. So yea, if these are based around the ocean in large numbers like how China did it in three layers, you're super jets will have a hard time and they'll have to remain at a distance. Be those land based Almighty SU-30's or Jags or Mig 29's. Get with the program instead of arguing like a 12 years old child.

The SUB's can launch cruise missiles and other missiles. PN has modified them. So, you have to protect your assets, it doesn't matter how many you have or not. You can't risk your one or two aircraft carriers. PLEASE, do NOT use the term CBG's. You guys are FAR AWAY from having carrier 'GROUPS'. lol. You are not the US Navy and you won't be one. Having two air craft carriers and a few support ships doesn't make it a 'carrier group'. lol.
And yes, if there were 4 squadrons dedicated to the Navy with BVR and other tech like the Chinese carrier killer missile or K-400 (which strike out to 150 miles at Hypersonic speed), you WILL keep your assets out of that range. unless you REALLY want to risk the only air craft carrier you possess. THAT's a dangerous bet and will result in billions of loss!!!! Again, you are not the US Navy, and acting something you ain't will cause you a LOT of money and jets too. I don't think Indian planner would even consider that bet. Risking the carrier assets against Pakistan might leave you without one to confront the Chinese and to project your force on little countries like Sri Lanka, etc. So trust me, these Naval assets will stay AWAY from the Pakistani integrated air defense if they employ it as I was recommending.

I don't understand a few things,why do you think we are building kolkata and follow on kolkata with MF-STAR AESA radar/barak2/ER if not for CBG?
Ok how are u going to get close enough to launch this ck-400 against mig-29k and maybe su-30mki naval allocations.Ur theory is sams will protect u from migs while ur aircraft will use opening to launch misiles,here is where ur theory goes totally haywaire..SAMs and aircraft don't work simultaneously at the same sector due to friendly fire.
Also for long range defences,as of now they are unconfirmed and these have large range against aircraft but very small against cruise missiles.So they will be pretty vulnerable to ALCMS and nirbhay/brahmos from ship.
Which brings me to my central question,what will be stopping the bulk of the indian surface fleet armed with klub/brahmos from raining down missiles on karachi harbour and Pn surface fleet even if carrier is at safe distance[more from threat of subs than missiles].Ur long range sams?Wait they will also have to simultaneously deal with IAF pressure.

 

[Bratva]

Sir

HQ-18's were being procured recently, PAF completed their feasibility studies around 2 years ago. HQ-9 and its upgraded version were procured much before that and are in service.



Its still a grey area, there has been no official or unofficial confirmation by someone from the higher up in either PAF or Saab. And believe me; you have no idea of the progress that has been made in terms of networking, data-linking, avionics, weapon systems, electronic warfare and the new curriculum of training that PAF has implemented.

Isn't SECDEF testimony enough? PAF won't admit their mistake, typical behaviour found in our babus

And I have fair idea of how much " advance progress" been made. The private firm which is at forefront of developing complete net-centric system,CARE, their official website do drop hints here and their about their achievements in making a net-centric solution for PAF

 

[notorious_eagle]

Isn't SECDEF testimony enough? PAF won't admit their mistake, typical behaviour found in our babus

Ahmad Mukhtar , a man who has probably never read a military manual in his life. Am i supposed to take his word?

The babu culture exists among our political oligarchy, not PAF. Anyways, no point of arguing unless we have something concrete to argue about. Right now, its all hearsay and my sources in PAF are yet to confirm because the Erieye has not been written off from the inventory list during the last audit.

 

[Viper0011.]

@orangzaib can you tel me about this? which i asked above. thanks

I don't think that you can just take TPS 77 and make an AESA out of that. Not that simple man. However, can the Chinese see it and reverse engineer it? I am sure that may be possible but why would they need to? They were already using or testing AESA on the J-31 and J-20....so miniaturizing an already in-test or working AESA for the JFT is much easier than taking a land based TPS 77 type of a system and try to compact it. It'll probably cost a fortune in trying that without results. But the Chinese already have access to some Russian and some Israeli tech like 10 years ago (AWACS - Phalcon saga) so they've probably gone that route for their initial AESA developments. TPS tech in this case isn't applicable in my opinion.
TPS-77 is a great 3-D radar. It will detect anything flying unless its a stealth jet and very stealthy at that. Many nations including the US herself uses it so there is confidence in this product. Rafale isn't stealthy or anything and it doesn't require anything out of the ordinary to detect. It may have good jamming or resistance to EM but that can't stop it from getting detected. Active Cancellation can only help in getting locked on or getting hit. But then again, what's painting you and what type of a missile is chasing you play huge factors.
Anyone to believe that the US never thought that it's pilots may have to face off with Rafale one day is simply naive!! Specially knowing the French are buddies buddies with the Arabs and others. So there are good chances that the US pilots may see Rafale as an enemy plane one day. And you are going to tell me that the world strongest military industrial complex hasn't spend a few billion to make sure it'll maintain its edge over this???? RETHINK if you think Rafale is superior!