PAF Within a Decade an Economical Perspective

[Hassan Guy]

Actual future of PAF:


Mirage and F-7 units still active in 2030.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Actual future of PAF:


Mirage and F-7 units still active in 2030.

Well we can safely remove F-7s.

 

[Lincoln]

Question? Why not get a twin engine heavy strike and aerial superiority, 5th generation platform. I know our experience with f-6 and a-5 was not good because of the dual engine aircraft Serviceability, but 4 squadrons would be enough to pack a punch and defend our territory. These would cost the same amount as a f-16 block 60 squadron or two jf-17 block 3 squadrons and we can get this in 2 years

Does there exist such a jet?

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

U didnt factor in Russian and/or Scandinavian options

Most of us here have been PAF enthusiasts for many decades, witnessing some very frustrating times and boredoms when PAF went through embargoes and lack of funds . Being the well wishers of PAF and its pilots we do cherish the organisation to be equipped with the latest state of the art fighters very soon, and hence we brainstorm on a daily basis with almost similar threads .
Keeping the Western options off the table for now, lets explore some economical and viable options that can give PAF the air superiority and powerful punch we all hope for.

J10C
This is currently the number one contender among the enthusiasts who want a strings free,embargo free and financial trouble free fighter.

Although J10c is still in its nascent years it has a long way to go, but the daily strides in its development suggests it has a huge potential for the future to come.A futuristic concept below...

JF17 Thunder Block2,3,4
A home made fighter is always a matter of pride for a nation and JF17 is the one that currently falls into this category. Thanks to the Chinese for their support the JF17 Thunder programme is making great progress in all dimensions. Within few years it will be the back bone of the PAF with newer blocks contributing to play in major roles.

Display of some futuristic concepts below...

Mirage upgrades
These reliable potent machines have been the main stay of PAF for many decades. The Mirages with their rigid airframes provide a faster and lethal BOMB TRUCK for PAF. Talks for upgrading them is not a bad idea. Ideally an upgrade to the CHEETAH standard with transfer of technology(from South Africa)will be the best option.

Project AZM
Every major airforce is either inducting a stealth fighter or is in a process to develop them. Being a major player we are not oblivious to the changing dynamics of modern times.Hopefully within a decade we will come out with a prototype that will be at par with the latest technologies. Again a futuristic concept below..

J16
Although an outside contender J16 is a very potent machine. Will love to see these beauties in our inventory as well.

Conclusion
The majority of the experts and enthusiasts hold a view that our fighter acquisitions and upgrades should be from home grown,Chinese,Turkish and other friendly sources. Which to some extent is not a bad idea as it is not prone to sanctions and financial issues. But for some of us the love for the F16s and other Western platforms is not going to go away soon either.

 

[Khan vilatey]

F

Does there exist such a jet?

J-20 and j-31

chines aircrafts

kv

 

[Lincoln]

F



J-20 and j-31

chines aircrafts

kv

I already answered. AZM is the answer.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Rather then keep on upgrading Mirage replace it with J-10C and couple of squadron of J-16 for Naval support

 

[Ultima Thule]

Rather then keep on upgrading Mirage replace it with J-10C and couple of squadron of J-16 for Naval support

i think J-16 is out of question China can't export them because they are based on Su-30 MKK/MKK-2 which is Russian intellectual property (their design)

 

[Darth Vader]

From What i can see instead of going other Planes and start new infrastructure will develop the heck out of thunder
2 Seen when relation with uncle sam became manageable you will see Pakistan getting more F16s
People might not like it but thats the quickest and cheapest option unlike adding a new platform it takes years for Air Forces to utilise them to full potential.
People talking about Sanctions and Pakistan cant use F16 against India thanks to uncle sam and kill switch What Happened Last Year ?
3 Pakistan , With China & Turkey can develop a decent 5th Gen, Stealth Air Craft, and lets see and wait on Project AZM.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

U didnt factor in Russian and/or Scandinavian options

The focus is on economical and sanction free options .

 

[Ali_Baba]

2023-2026 Mirage upgrade with JF17 Block III avionics

Unless Pakistan has learnt to zero the entire airframe of the Mirage, this makes no sense at any level... Best thing is to focus on procuring JF17 Block IIIs instead. That is the future, not 50 year old airframes.

If Pakistan had the abiity to build an entire Mirage airframe from designs and license provided by Dassault and have the abiity to transplant large degree of systems and engines from old airframes, then maybe you have an option. That way you can still leverage all of the existing people and infrastructure you already have in place.. But then, what is the difference in cost between that, and buying a JF17 Block III in the first place. Does Pakistan have the blue prints that allow them to build a brand new Mirage III(/V) airframe from scratch? Does Pakistan have the technical skills to do this(the main body for the JF17 still comes from China and this is the most complicated part of the build process, so Pakistan has no experience or mastery over this part..). Does Pakistan have the ability to test the airframe, or test their upgrades in house for the Mirage III?? The limited upgrades that Pakistan has done on the Mirages have been done out of country and then in Pakistan under instruction...

I don't understand people who seem to suggest that Mirage III(/Vs)s have an upgraded future in the PAF... unless of course, we admit that the PAF made a mistake and didnot have requirements built into the JF17s to replace the Mirages, in addition to the F7s and A5 Fantans ?!?!

 

[CrazyZ]

Unless Pakistan has learnt to zero the entire airframe of the Mirage, this makes no sense at any level... Best thing is to focus on procuring JF17 Block IIIs instead. That is the future, not 50 year old airframes.

If Pakistan had the abiity to build an entire Mirage airframe from designs and license provided by Dassault and have the abiity to transplant large degree of systems and engines from old airframes, then maybe you have an option. That way you can still leverage all of the existing people and infrastructure you already have in place.. But then, what is the difference in cost between that, and buying a JF17 Block III in the first place. Does Pakistan have the blue prints that allow them to build a brand new Mirage III(/V) airframe from scratch? Does Pakistan have the technical skills to do this(the main body for the JF17 still comes from China and this is the most complicated part of the build process, so Pakistan has no experience or mastery over this part..). Does Pakistan have the ability to test the airframe, or test their upgrades in house for the Mirage III?? The limited upgrades that Pakistan has done on the Mirages have been done out of country and then in Pakistan under instruction...

I don't under people who seem to suggest that Mirage IIIs have an upgraded future in the PAF... unless of course, w admit that the PAF made a mistake and did not have requirements built into the JF17s to replace the Mirages, in addition to the F7s and A5 Fantans ?!?!

In regards to the Mirage 3/5....its a simple airframe made with aviation grade aluminum. We have plenty of spare components. Keeping them going only requires labor, which we have lots of. I have no doubt that PAC can keep them air worthy for many years. The bigger issue is the engine. PAC can refurbish them but not really replace them. Old planes can still have a big effect on the battlefield. The USAF's ancient B52's will outlast the stealth B2.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

The bigger issue is the engine. PAC can refurbish them but not really replace them.

South Africa replaced their engines with a more powerful Snecma Atar 9K50C-11 afterburning turbojet engine, with 49.2 kN (11,100 lbf) thrust dry and 70.6 kN (15,900 lbf) with afterburner.

South African variant of the Atar09K-50 with new compressor, new turbine, new electronics.

 

[imranyounus]

Mirage 3/5 are an icon in PAF probably more than F 16, but every thing has a limit. they probably will not lost beyond 2025. And with the introduction of duel seat JF 17 PAF is also thinking on same lines Mirage place will be shared by JF 17 and UACV.

Yes focusing on subsystem rather than platforms has shown good results but we are forgetting the roll of F 16 in our most recent confrontation one must understand that a lighter platform like JF 17 my be able to do many things but cannot replace the true effectiveness of a medium size platform. That's why PAF was going after F 16. The last air battle has also shown same you must understand that out of 28 fighters used there were probably 8 to 12 F 16 in an all out war we will not be able to maintain this ratio.

Ideally 1 to 2 ratio of F 16 and JF 17 or perhaps a 1 to 3 ratio should be maintained but in current situation procuring more F 16 looks impossible. with PAF focusing procuring around 350 JF 17 we will need at least 150 Medium size fighters and lack at least 80 medium size fighters.

Both project AZAM and J 31 will need at lest 8 to 10 years to mature and will probably factor in real combat scenario after around 2030-35. We will end up having both of them replacing our F 16 and J F 17 around 2030-35.

But till then we do need more medium size aircraft. the best option is more F 16 which looks bleak. instead we may go after J 10 J 11 or SU 30. the best option may be J 10 which could also provide the engine and avionics for Project AZAM and may be more beneficial to out aviation industry as well.

 

[araz]

2021-2025 JF17 Block III
2023-2026 Mirage upgrade with JF17 Block III avionics
2026-2030 JF17 Block IV
2031-2035 J31/AZM

Most logical post on the topic.
A