PAF T-37 Trainer Jet Crashes near Swabi

[no SunShine]

As far as my jumping to conclusion part is concerned, I wrote in my post that these are initial findings based on the statements of the formation leader (instructor) and it might prove wrong once the Accident investigation board finalises its findings. If there was any fire while he was formating, it must have been seen by the leader or reported by Jahanzeb. Fire also could have started as soon as he went to slot(rear) position where leader cannot see him and Jahanzeb did not have the time to give the call and report the fire. Again, it could be anyones guess till the time final enquiry is done and causes established.

dear X man.. my appologies if i was too harsh.. honestly.. i dun like people jumpin 2 conclusions without any comprehensive evidence!

i would really like it.. if U.. cud sumhow verify frm where U got the information, the findings you have mentioned.. if U can verify the source.. that wud b very kind of U..

as far as the Jetwash is concerned.. i am no pilot.. i hav no info on planes etc..
BUT.. i kno this much.. that T-37 is a trainer aircraft.. and i believe that his instructor was also flying a similar kind of aircraft ( as it wud b impossible for the instructor to keep up wid his student on a mach 2 capable plane ) and i personally ( with my limited amount of knowledge on planes ) dun believe.. that a small aircraft wud b capable of emitting high amount of gases.. as U hav mentioned.. ( yes i have seen Top Gun too.. and that plane was a twin engine/jet F-10 )
and also.. if he was in a Jetwash.. his plane wud hav most probably gone into a wild spin.. an uncontrolable spin.. which none of the eyewitnesses mentioned.. which means that plane was coming down.. straight.. not spinnin! and if it was spinnin then it wud have been impossible for him ( Jahanzeb ) to try to avert the buildings, labs, bank and the students and go for a crash landing..

regards
no SunShine..

 

[x_man]

dear X man.. my appologies if i was too harsh.. honestly.. i dun like people jumpin 2 conclusions without any comprehensive evidence!

i would really like it.. if U.. cud sumhow verify frm where U got the information, the findings you have mentioned.. if U can verify the source.. that wud b very kind of U..

as far as the Jetwash is concerned.. i am no pilot.. i hav no info on planes etc..
BUT.. i kno this much.. that T-37 is a trainer aircraft.. and i believe that his instructor was also flying a similar kind of aircraft ( as it wud b impossible for the instructor to keep up wid his student on a mach 2 capable plane ) and i personally ( with my limited amount of knowledge on planes ) dun believe.. that a small aircraft wud b capable of emitting high amount of gases.. as U hav mentioned.. ( yes i have seen Top Gun too.. and that plane was a twin engine/jet F-10 )
and also.. if he was in a Jetwash.. his plane wud hav most probably gone into a wild spin.. an uncontrolable spin.. which none of the eyewitnesses mentioned.. which means that plane was coming down.. straight.. not spinnin! and if it was spinnin then it wud have been impossible for him ( Jahanzeb ) to try to avert the buildings, labs, bank and the students and go for a crash landing..

regards
no SunShine..

After hearing the news of T-37 crash, I spoke to one of my coursemates who is a Squadron Commander at Academy.

As far as your query is concerned, if you are considering T-37s jetwash too less ,then behind it also was a T-37. Likewise,a Mushahak is capable of toppling another Mushshak behind it by its prop wash. So speed or size really doesnt matter if it was a Boeing 747 behind another 747 or a T-37 behind another T-37.

Please dont quote ' TOP GUN'. Trust me, 95% of what they showed and how they showed in it, doesnt happen in real life.

Take care

 

[no SunShine]

After hearing the news of T-37 crash, I spoke to one of my coursemates who is a Squadron Commander at Academy.

As far as your query is concerned, if you are considering T-37s jetwash too less ,then behind it also was a T-37. Likewise,a Mushahak is capable of toppling another Mushshak behind it by its prop wash. So speed or size really doesnt matter if it was a Boeing 747 behind another 747 or a T-37 behind another T-37.

Please dont quote ' TOP GUN'. Trust me, 95% of what they showed and how they showed in it, doesnt happen in real life.

Take care

my dear, Mr. X man.. thanks for the response..

can U kindly go into more detail of Ur conversation with the Sq. Ldr? ( i dun mean the name of Ur friend.. jus wanna know what Ur friend at the academy told U? )

hmm alrite.. the jetwash can be very much responsible.. BUT.. its just a Cessna trainer aircraft.. with a top speed of only 400-450 km/h as compared to a/an f-16 which can easily reach 2,400 km/h!
so my logic is simple.. compare a cessna with a F-16.. n the wake turbulence produced by its wingtip vortices (counted in higher speed.. aircraft) and jetwash (emissions).
i know U said..their is still emissions n jetwash.. BUT.. wud U compare the 400/450 km/h aircraft with a 2,400+ capable's jetwash?

frm wikipedia
Wake turbulence is turbulence that forms behind an aircraft as it passes through the air. This turbulence includes various components, the most important of which are wingtip vortices and jetwash. Jetwash refers simply to the rapidly moving gasses expelled from a jet engine; it is extremely turbulent, but of short duration. Wingtip vortices, on the other hand, are much more stable and can remain in the air for up to two minutes after the passage of an aircraft. Wingtip vortices make up the primary and most dangerous component of wake turbulence.

Wake turbulence is especially hazardous during the landing and take off phases of flight, for three reasons. The first is that during take-off and landing, aircraft operate at low speeds and high angle of attack. This flight attitude maximizes the formation of dangerous wingtip vortices. Secondly, takeoff and landing are the times when a plane is operating closest to its stall speed and to the ground - meaning there is little margin for recovery in the event of encountering another aircraft's wake turbulence. Thirdly, these phases of flight put aircraft closest together and along the same flightpath, maximizing the chance of encountering the phenomenon.
[end of wikipedia..]

400 km/h is a speed which can be attained on a ground vehicle ( cars, jet cars, sports cars etc ) would U consider it hazardous?

the word turbulence itself means disturbance.. so for a leyman, like maself.. i wudnt take the turbulence caused in 1) mid air.. NOT during landing.. NOT during take off, 2) by a small cessna trainer aircraft, 3) capable of a top speed of 450 km/h.. very seriously..
if it was a "mach 2 capable" plane.. with bigger engines.. higher speed, longer wingspan resultin in more turbulence frm the wingtip vortices.. higher fuel consumption resultin in higher emissions/Jetwash.. it wud hav all been different.. the speculations, the conclusions.. etc.. BUT that wasn't the case!
and here is a pic of a K-8 trainer ( which m pretty much sure.. U wud hav seen and probably flown.. BUT for leymen.. like myself n other Gikians.. who dun fly ) and after seeing this pic..i dun think.. this plane can cause any sort of turbulence.. and even if it does.. not sumthin as lethal as U say.. makin Jahanzeb's plane crash
http://www.defence.pk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=402


and as for Top Gun.. i think.. it set a standard.. about aircrafts, dog-fights, aviation tactics, the so called cowboy pilots etc.. and for no-voice aircraft lovers created sumthing really interesting and informative, to know about!
alota flight aviators, instructors, pilots and leymen (like myself) consider it mother of all the fighter-jet-related films!

anyways.. thanks for the time..

Allah hafiz..

 

[A.Rahman]

no SunShine,

The purpose of this forum is to discuss, no one is disrespecting the dead
Please write in proper english, not in "TXT" format.

Thank you.

 

[no SunShine]

no SunShine,

Please write in proper english, not in "TXT" format.

Thank you.

my dear, mr. A. Rahman

m really really sorry, but unfortunately that's the only format of chattin/typin i know..

after chattin/postin on yahoo, msn, irc, orkut and others that's become ma trademark typin style.. hav tried 2 change it but it always follows me around.. n catches up!

so with regrets, wud ask U 2 bear me..
like sum english literature guy once said.. " luv me oR leave me! "

hope U'll understand..

regards

no Sun..

 

[no SunShine]

no SunShine,

The purpose of this forum is to discuss, no one is disrespecting the dead

yes! ofcorz!

i clearly understand.. BUT.. if U look at the posts by Blackwater, and the baseless allegations/conclusions, i bet U'll understand the reason for ma outburst!

discussin is alrite, but makin false judgements and passin really lame comments is totally another thing..

Salaam

 

[Keysersoze]

my dear, mr. A. Rahman

m really really sorry, but unfortunately that's the only format of chattin/typin i know..

after chattin/postin on yahoo, msn, irc, orkut and others that's become ma trademark typin style.. hav tried 2 change it but it always follows me around.. n catches up!

so with regrets, wud ask U 2 bear me..
like sum english literature guy once said.. " luv me oR leave me! "

hope U'll understand..

regards

no Sun..

Mr sunshine if you have difficulty using the correct words I suggest that you use a word processing program to type your message and use the spell check on it. Then copy paste it across. I am sure you can manage that. If you can't manage I'll just start deleting your posts.

If we don't love you we'll leave you.......outside