PAF should look into Hard Kill Missile and Soft Kill Systems

[FuturePAF]

With it's limited Funds and the critical part the Air force in general and high value assets like AWE&C plays in the defense of the nation, the Air Force should look into developing Hard Kill systems (similar to how the Navy upgraded the Agosta Submarine with the Turkish anti-torpedo system https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutt...spotted-with-new-defense-system/#559e37f536f2) and soft kill laser defenses.




https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...rt-tanker-and-possibly-unmanned-escort-planes

https://www.mbda-systems.com/?media...ure-air-systems-hard-kill-anti-missile-system

Soft Kill Laser Based System

 

[Armchair]

unfortunately PAF does not think yet outside the box and suffers from the secular Macauley's children mindset, they will only do it if a gora does it first.
Look for instance how they seem to release info to Alan Warnes but yet not to local non-gora journalists.
I once sent a proposal in 2011 to use unmanned vehicles and the PAF replied "why did you write this?"
It took Aerospace America and the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics to appreciate it... but sadly since I am not gora it didn't get into the skulls of these dear defenders of the skies.

 

[PakFactor]

unfortunately PAF does not think yet outside the box and suffers from the secular Macauley's children mindset, they will only do it if a gora does it first.
Look for instance how they seem to release info to Alan Warnes but yet not to local non-gora journalists.
I once sent a proposal in 2011 to use unmanned vehicles and the PAF replied "why did you write this?"
It took Aerospace America and the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics to appreciate it... but sadly since I am not gora it didn't get into the skulls of these dear defenders of the skies.

By any chance you can share your report

unfortunately PAF does not think yet outside the box and suffers from the secular Macauley's children mindset, they will only do it if a gora does it first.
Look for instance how they seem to release info to Alan Warnes but yet not to local non-gora journalists.
I once sent a proposal in 2011 to use unmanned vehicles and the PAF replied "why did you write this?"
It took Aerospace America and the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics to appreciate it... but sadly since I am not gora it didn't get into the skulls of these dear defenders of the skies.

This why I have problems with duffar planners in the armed forces to be honest. Instead of thinking outside the box, they go into the box.

 

[Sine Nomine]

unfortunately PAF does not think yet outside the box and suffers from the secular Macauley's children mindset, they will only do it if a gora does it first.
Look for instance how they seem to release info to Alan Warnes but yet not to local non-gora journalists.
I once sent a proposal in 2011 to use unmanned vehicles and the PAF replied "why did you write this?"
It took Aerospace America and the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics to appreciate it... but sadly since I am not gora it didn't get into the skulls of these dear defenders of the skies.

Bahi Share he kar dai.

 

[Bossman]

unfortunately PAF does not think yet outside the box and suffers from the secular Macauley's children mindset, they will only do it if a gora does it first.
Look for instance how they seem to release info to Alan Warnes but yet not to local non-gora journalists.
I once sent a proposal in 2011 to use unmanned vehicles and the PAF replied "why did you write this?"
It took Aerospace America and the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics to appreciate it... but sadly since I am not gora it didn't get into the skulls of these dear defenders of the skies.

what did you study? PAF has been using UAV much before 2011 so what new did you offer them?

 

[FuturePAF]

unfortunately PAF does not think yet outside the box and suffers from the secular Macauley's children mindset, they will only do it if a gora does it first.
Look for instance how they seem to release info to Alan Warnes but yet not to local non-gora journalists.
I once sent a proposal in 2011 to use unmanned vehicles and the PAF replied "why did you write this?"
It took Aerospace America and the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics to appreciate it... but sadly since I am not gora it didn't get into the skulls of these dear defenders of the skies.

So true. Hence the reason why I always post pictures or videos or articles as above from western companies where we can see what they are developing. I hope that if they see it from a goat source they will take it seriously. The Chinese take anything coming out of the west seriously, study it, and then act. Hence why they are catching up and in some places innovation their own solutions they can market to countries like us. The Turks made this leap of imagination decades ago as well, and their arms industry is going to meet their domestic needs if not fully, by a large percent.

Perhaps if presented to one of the Pakistani defense contractors they could see the viability of developing such a system as you proposed in house. If Pakistan doesn’t want it they could try to market it abroad. Maybe then the military will see the value in your idea.

alot of advances tech or the ideas they were based upon coming out of China and Europe/Turkey were originally researched in the US. The Europeans and China didn’t pay for research but reaped the rewards of the work. Of all the institutions the air Force, with its experience developing the JF-17 based on global trends, should appreciate new ideas, where they only have the cost to build and test, and minimal cost to develop.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

So true. Hence the reason why I always post pictures or videos or articles as above from western companies where we can see what they are developing. I hope that if they see it from a goat source they will take it seriously. The Chinese take anything coming out of the west seriously, study it, and then act. Hence why they are catching up and in some places innovation their own solutions they can market to countries like us. The Turks made this leap of imagination decades ago as well, and their arms industry is going to meet their domestic needs if not fully, by a large percent.

Perhaps if presented to one of the Pakistani defense contractors they could see the viability of developing such a system as you proposed in house. If Pakistan doesn’t want it they could try to market it abroad. Maybe then the military will see the value in your idea.

$$$$$$

 

[FuturePAF]

$$$$$$

What the point of the defense contractors if they are just going to make foreign products under license and not adapt foreign systems to better fit our needs. All the advanced labs and large numbers of engineers trained are sunk costs. The little extra cost by researching how to adapt what we have will pay dividends If not domestically but in the international arms market.

Investing a sum of the profits back into R&D is the reason South Korean electronics advanced so much and Taiwan’s industry stalled.

 

[Shabi1]

With it's limited Funds and the critical part the Air force in general and high value assets like AWE&C plays in the defense of the nation, the Air Force should look into developing Hard Kill systems (similar to how the Navy upgraded the Agosta Submarine with the Turkish anti-torpedo system https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutt...spotted-with-new-defense-system/#559e37f536f2) and soft kill laser defenses.




https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...rt-tanker-and-possibly-unmanned-escort-planes

https://www.mbda-systems.com/?media...ure-air-systems-hard-kill-anti-missile-system

Soft Kill Laser Based System

They are working on it, being ready for energy weapon integration is one of the objectives of project Azm. The reason why these systems are not in widespread use is the technology is still maturing and the power requirements are huge. The US wanted the AIM-120D to be able to shoot down enemy missiles but havnt heard of any progress on it.

https://www.globalvillagespace.com/...ry-own-fifth-gen-stealth-fighter-jet-program/
"The Chief of Air Staff further added that the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for the 5th generation fighter jet, which include “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”"

Rolls Royce's approach for more power generation, the Turks have Rolls Royce as a partner for their next gen jet and Chinese arn't too far behind so expect them to follow suite.

https://newatlas.com/military/rolls-royce-advanced-jet-engine-power-tempest-fighter/

 

[FuturePAF]

They are working on it, being ready for energy weapon integration is one of the objectives of project Azm. The reason why these systems are not in widespread use is the technology is still maturing and the power requirements are huge. The US wanted the AIM-120D to be able to shoot down enemy missiles but havnt heard of any progress on it.

https://www.globalvillagespace.com/...ry-own-fifth-gen-stealth-fighter-jet-program/
"The Chief of Air Staff further added that the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for the 5th generation fighter jet, which include “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”"

Rolls Royce's approach for more power generation, the Turks have Rolls Royce as a partner for their next gen jet and Chinese arn't too far behind so expect them to follow suite.

https://newatlas.com/military/rolls-royce-advanced-jet-engine-power-tempest-fighter/

The laser based defense to blind enemy IR missiles have been around for more than a decade. Also the hard kill missile is a small missile, smaller than the A2A missiles and could be fit in a small pod on a pylon, or as part of a jamming pod. Maybe not 9 hard kill missiles but even 2 hard kill missiles will add a layer of defense that could be the difference between life and death.

I also want to correct an earlier statement. I don’t think the air force is sitting on its hands. They are under a lot of pressure to stay within the budget. Hence Why I recommend the Pakistani defense. Contractors work with foreign users of K-8 and JF-17 to fund the development of a hard kill system.

Eventually when the system is mature, The PAF can be just another customer and the costs will spread over multiple users. The PAF can develop an advanced version with a DRFM in the missile to make it more advanced and use its own secret radio frequencies to add extra protection.

Either way, the entire Pakistani Military Industrial Complex needs to think outside the box.

 

[FuturePAF]

HK-DAS a Micro-missile being developed by MBDA could be the Hard Kill Missile.

Working closely with Leonardo and BAE Systems (BAES) has led to MBDA developing concepts for a Hard Kill Defensive Aid System (HK-DAS) capable of tracking, targeting and intercepting incoming missiles in high threat environments.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...est_Stealth_Fighter_at_DSEI_2019#.XkydayhKiUk

https://www.overtdefense.com/2019/09/12/dsei-2019-tempest-shown-off-with-new-family-of-weapons/


If a Triple Rail Launcher were carried for the PL-10E on the middle pylon, and the hard kill missiles on the other two rails, but pointed backwards.

 

[crankthatskunk]

By any chance you can share your report



This why I have problems with duffar planners in the armed forces to be honest. Instead of thinking outside the box, they go into the box.

Well, the result of criticism is that I am now frequently denied opportunities to take part in certain threads. And my posts are deleted that they are no value to the thread. Even those where I joke about something.
Therefore, be careful before you criticise. I am now going to wait even responding to your post also deemed to be not contributing to the thread.

 

[FuturePAF]

@Windjammer

Would this be something the PAF would consider (The first one)?

Hard Kill Defensive Aid System (HK-DAS) capable of tracking, targeting and intercepting incoming missiles in high threat environments

Source: https://ukdefenceforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=703&start=75