PAF Should Go For The F 35---A Coupe De Grace

[OTTOMAN]

@MastanKhan one off topic question... did you knew in advance that Pakistan is planning to buy military jets from US.
I mean you started this thread in Sept. just before US visit of NS.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Osama Bin Laden stayed in Abbotabad un-detected by following the Agencies's handbook for its agents----.

If you want to hide in a jungle become like a tree----if you want to hide in a city look act and live like one of the city dwellers.

In large Pakistani mansions----you never know who is living inside---how many are living inside---what is happening inside the household.

So---it is not a myth how Osama lived in A'abad---He was just following the ageny's guideline right to the T----. He just dotted all the i's and crossed all his T's----.

If it was not the phone number given to the agency by the Pakistanis---he would not have been discovered.

seems like you are in a bitter mood today. Sorry for bothering you.

Hi,

I am not in a bad mood---but I don't want to discuss the strategic issue---. I don't know where it ends up.

I have been surprised at some of my comments being repeated by someone at the very top---.

 

[nForce]

Hi,

I am not in a bad mood---but I don't want to discuss the strategic issue---. I don't know where it ends up.

I have been surprised at some of my comments being repeated by someone at the very top---.

I understand sir. I know very little about military hardware and technologies, but the title seemed interesting to me. I will go through the thread tomorrow.

 

[war&peace]

Regardless of the political and financial constraints, I see Su-35 a better option. F-35 has a lot of technical issues and lets not be dazzled by the 5th generation tag. I had a detailed discussion with Raymer about JSF-35 program during a course and He was not so happy with the performance of F-35 despite all the delays and costs. Raymer although he hates canards, he had a more positive opinion of the canarded Su-35 than the F-35. The only edge of F-35 has over Su-35 is the stealth; but there is no such thing as 100% stealth...it just means is to be able to remain invisible to current detection systems. However the current L-band radars are able to see these state of the art stealth aircrafts and it would become even less stealthier with next generation of radars. Su-35 not only has one of the most advanced radars but also the most powerful radar system that can saturate the sky and detect the enemy at a very long range. For further reading about the multitude of issues haunting F-35, please follow the links,
Lockheed’s F-35 Falls Short of Testinig Goals in 2012 - Bloomberg Business
and
Pentagon: Here are all the problems with the F-35 - Business Insider
The program is still suffering with issues and it will take a few years before all the problems have been fixed and it becomes a reliable airworthy platform.

 

[Daghalodi]

But its a beautiful aircraft

 

[Haroon Baloch]

Pakistan should go for the J31.The biggest thing Pakistan would gain by fielding the JF-31 is a low-observable fighter aircraft that would make some strides at leveling the Inida-Pakistan air combat equation and its cheap and we will probaly get the ToT.

 

[jupiter2007]

Pakistan should go for the J31.The biggest thing Pakistan would gain by fielding the JF-31 is a low-observable fighter aircraft that would make some strides at leveling the Inida-Pakistan air combat equation and its cheap and we will probaly get the ToT.

What do you mean it's cheap? Do you know how much a true 5th generation aircraft cost?

Between 100 - 125 million

Why did you assume that Pakistan will get ToT?

China doesn't give anything for free and when she does give something it's for her own interest.

There is no friend or foe, it's only interest. Have we not learn this from USA during 1965 and 1971 war?

 

[Haroon Baloch]

What do you mean it's cheap? Do you know how much a true 5th generation aircraft cost?

Between 100 - 125 million

Why did you assume that Pakistan will get ToT?

China doesn't give anything for free and when she does give something it's for her own interest.

There is no friend or foe, it's only interest. Have we not learn this from USA during 1965 and 1971 war?

Recently in New york time they mentioned that the estimated price of J-31 is 75 Million$ which is quite cheap compare to F-35 by Lockhead Martins which cost is 150-200 Million $. They give ToT in our recent deal of Subs with a training facility established in Karachi for this purpose ever so maybe they will do it again for J 31.

 

[jupiter2007]

Recently in New york time they mentioned that the estimated price of J-31 is 75 Million$ which is quite cheap compare to F-35 by Lockhead Martins which cost is 150-200 Million $. They give ToT in our recent deal of Subs with a training facility established in Karachi for this purpose ever so maybe they will do it again for J 31.

Chinese are asking for 45 to 55 million of J-10C based on configuration (Avionics&Radar), and you think J-31 is going to be 75 millions???....
first of all it's not even in production... It will take at least 5 to 6 years to mature and even then Chinese will not export it right away...maybe between 2022-2025 when Pakistan can get a few of these...

 

[LeGenD]

Regardless of the political and financial constraints, I see Su-35 a better option. F-35 has a lot of technical issues and lets not be dazzled by the 5th generation tag. I had a detailed discussion with Raymer about JSF-35 program during a course and He was not so happy with the performance of F-35 despite all the delays and costs. Raymer although he hates canards, he had a more positive opinion of the canarded Su-35 than the F-35. The only edge of F-35 has over Su-35 is the stealth; but there is no such thing as 100% stealth...it just means is to be able to remain invisible to current detection systems. However the current L-band radars are able to see these state of the art stealth aircrafts and it would become even less stealthier with next generation of radars. Su-35 not only has one of the most advanced radars but also the most powerful radar system that can saturate the sky and detect the enemy at a very long range. For further reading about the multitude of issues haunting F-35, please follow the links,
Lockheed’s F-35 Falls Short of Testinig Goals in 2012 - Bloomberg Business
and
Pentagon: Here are all the problems with the F-35 - Business Insider
The program is still suffering with issues and it will take a few years before all the problems have been fixed and it becomes a reliable airworthy platform.

Sometimes I feel that F-35 program have gotten too much publicity. This is detrimental to the reputation of F-35 series aircraft and such coverage should be restricted. On average, we don't get to hear about testing history of weapon systems around the world. Developers fully understand the importance of extensive testing to root out all possible issues and design flaws.

Now if even a single issue is found, it is suddenly blown out of proportion on social media. This nonsense should stop.

 

[Haroon Baloch]

Chinese are asking for 45 to 55 million of J-10C based on configuration (Avionics&Radar), and you think J-31 is going to be 75 millions???....
first of all it's not even in production... It will take at least 5 to 6 years to mature and even then Chinese will not export it right away...maybe between 2022-2025 when Pakistan can get a few of these...

The recent appearance of the aircraft at the Zhuhai airshow, as well as the comments of a smattering of Chinese officials, led to spate of articles suggesting that China was interested in the J-31 primarilly export model. Conceivably, the J-31 could occupy a low-end stealth fighter niche that currently has no other entrants.Some have billed the J-31 as China’s answer to the F-35, as if that represented some sort of compliment. The F-35, after all, sells itself as the center of a system of sensor and communications systems that facilitates air command F-35 system is enhanced by the capacity of F-35s to work together to create a more accurate vision of the battlespace. There’s no indication as of yet that the J-31 is supposed to have these kinds of emergent capabilities, and there’s little sense that China is capable of developing and exporting such systems along with the airframe and if they sell it at the price you mentioned do you really thing countries will select Chineas low end stealth fighter over F-35???

 

[vsdave2302]

Hi,

After much thought and deliberation---I have come to the conclusion that PAF should change gears in mid stream and go for a 2 Sqdrn strength of the F 35 initially.

They should drop the idea for the SU35 or the J11D and go for the JH7B with the upgraded engine and aesa radar.

But the key over here is the F35----. With the procurement of this aircraft---it can bring some balance to the fire fight and have some strength at its disposal to maintain and manage an aggressive and a defensive power stance---.

This is an unconventional approach to the problem at hand---. Go for the 5th gen aircraft first and then go back to the 4--- 4.5 gen aircraft---.

It will also give it enough time to develop the JF 17 blk 3 as well.

There are a couple of things that have changed-----. @Zarvan brought my attention to a thread started by Usama---I believe---regarding the F15 Silent eagle----with a new configuration of 16 BVR missiles on the wings and underbody with conformal fuel tanks designed by Boeing believe.

The F 15 would be guided by the F22 and the F 35 towards the target---the same can be done with the JF 17's. If it can be designed to carry 6 BVR missiles---then you have taken care of some of the problems facing the air defense of the country.

By going for the F 35---you are going to take the initiative away from the enemy. If it was me----I would rather have 2 sqdrn's of F35's than 4 sqdrn's of J11d's or SU35's.

You guys are being upset at why this change in game plan----why d I keep bringing different scenarios-----. I guess you people might come across some news in the near or distant future.

So---til then--- I am not going to say anything else---. Just wanted to let you guys know---if India was a litte more aggressive last year---the deal for the J10B's was done----.

To those who are roaming around the air force bases----please look for 2 of them------.

US will never give Pakistan F35. They will not offer pakistan anything more than some non latest F16.

 

[MastanKhan]

US will never give Pakistan F35. They will not offer pakistan anything more than some non latest F16.

Okay---thank you---. Appreciate your comments.

 

[wiseone2]

One problem with your comment, Pakistan is very much a part of the Asian pivote. The US cannot afford to ignore Pakistan, as it would just give China more room to expand. This is why we are seeing the US come back to Pakistan.

except they won't share any sensitive technology with Pakistan

 

[Sully3]

UK Government just announced today they are getting a bunch go F-35's by 2025

So is that RAF admitting F35's are superior to the typhoons ?