PAF Pilots looking over RSAF typhoon procurement?

[rockstarIN]

Lavi is a decades old abandoned project. EF2000 is totally a differnt concept and doesnt have anything in common with the planes to listed.

Some people thinking that, just experiencing one jet gonna get all the hi tech details..!!

 

[fatman17]

if one reads the statement carefully, it only suggests that senior 'non-combatant' PAF staff are there to provide only 'technical support' to the RSAF. most likely to be ground enginneers.

 

[SBD-3]

That was dogfight era, so u need to know the capabilities of your opponent to outmaneuver them. But today it'll hardly help in a BVR fight.

O poor chaap Capabilities mean all the capabilities which include both BVR and Manuvering as well

 

[SBD-3]

Some people thinking that, just experiencing one jet gonna get all the hi tech details..!!

Speaks of your understanding of the thread and context. We are here talking about Typhoon Induction Program in RSAF.

 

[Manticore]

Lavi is a decades old abandoned project. EF2000 is totally a differnt concept and doesnt have anything in common with the planes to listed.

i didnt use the term 'copied' rather i used the term influenced''-
j10b (DSI decreased rcs, IRST, AESA, integrated ECM, a bit of RAM coating? :S) is even a better design
J10b turn radius, climb etc are apparently better than PLAAF flankers

i realy dont know what concepts you are referring to-- other than avionics

The Canards in the Lavi have also dihedral but also they are far too close to the wings in fact over them-- The Eurofighter`s are not as close to the wings as those on the Lavi, the position has to do with drag/lift ratio, the best combination is high aspect canards low aspect wings check the Eurofighter has also strakes -- chinese J-10 also the canards are not too far from the wing, however are not so close as those in the Lavi and Rafale, both the Eurofighter and J-10 have the least drag canard delta wing configuration specially good for a fast aircraft --

the payload and range factors ofcourse favour typhoon as its a 2 engine fighter-- the edge gained by supercriuse capability is being continously downplayed on many forums

 

[Skull and Bones]

O poor chaap Capabilities mean all the capabilities which include both BVR and Manuvering as well

O wise man! can you tell me how can you out maneuver any AAM, both BVR and WVR. Experience doesn't count in this field, technology does.
Heights of ignorance i must say.

 

[origin eagle]

its about the Air Force pilots who want to learn a new experience!!
I think so

 

[SBD-3]

O wise man! can you tell me how can you out maneuver any AAM, both BVR and WVR. Experience doesn't count in this field, technology does.
Heights of ignorance i must say.

You guys are real dumbsets..... Ask this stupid question to anyone and he ll laugh like hell.....I deal you need a lot of reading (that too basic) child....i know it ll be difficult but try to find a good book for developing an understanding how a plane is flown.
I am posting some vids for you as i know most of Indian members dont even care through reading the title of thread before posting but patiently watch through these three vids which will give you a fair idea how pilots defeat AAMs and BVRs which fanboys like you think cant be defeated and how a pilot will remain the centre of importance

 

[Alla hoo]

I dont understand the logic. Are Saudi fighters and policy makers in competent? Or pakistani pilots very very extra competent?

 

[SBD-3]

I dont understand the logic. Are Saudi fighters and policy makers in competent? Or pakistani pilots very very extra competent?

Nop, They are Brothers in Arms and hreats.........

 

[Windjammer]

In early 2000, an RAF Air chief, visiting Pakistan suggested the EF for the PAF, which was still under sanctions.
ACM, Tanvir.M.Ahmed along with some senior PAF pilots visited UK and had a look at the Typhoon. Whatever other drawbacks may have been in place but the voice command system certainly didn't prove convincing.

 

[Skull and Bones]

You guys are real dumbsets..... Ask this stupid question to anyone and he ll laugh like hell.....I deal you need a lot of reading (that too basic) child....i know it ll be difficult but try to find a good book for developing an understanding how a plane is flown.
I am posting some vids for you as i know most of Indian members dont even care through reading the title of thread before posting but patiently watch through these three vids which will give you a fair idea how pilots defeat AAMs and BVRs which fanboys like you think cant be defeated and how a pilot will remain the centre of importance

Why don't you consider a second look at these videos, citing animated dogfights videos from history channel is pretty lame and childish. Chaff dispensers has been around from quite sometime without much success in real fights, U can jam PESA radar signals(having a single definite frequency) but it won't be much use when AESA radars comes into play, and no matter how experienced pilot you are, you can't out maneuver any AAM around.

Wanna break these myths then do it with logic in a civilized manner, BS claims can even down a F-22 with a J-7

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

I dont understand the logic. Are Saudi fighters and policy makers in competent? Or pakistani pilots very very extra competent?

paf have more experience thus we help our brothers whan needed

 

[SBD-3]

Why don't you consider a second look at these videos, citing animated dogfights videos from history channel is pretty lame and childish.Chaff dispensers has been around from quite sometime without much success in real fights,

as i expected, you didn't care to go through videos did you? I told you that there is a painful thing called "reading". I am sorry but I am giving you another pain pill try to digest it , though i think some things in the below reading are likely to stay beyond your ability to understand, but here goes

BVR and Russian roulette
Beyond visual range (BVR) will remain the raging controversy in air combat until a definitive, modern air war -- which nobody wants -- proves which side is correct.

The Air Power Australia group, which defiantly wears its pro-F-22/anti-F-35 bias on its sleeve, make a strong case today against BVR, breaking down the odds of failure at each step in the BVR kill-chain.


1. Active missile confirmed on launch rail -- 0.1% (chance of failure)
2. Search and track radar jammed -- 5%
3. Launch or missile failure -- 5%
4. Guidance link jammed -- 3%
5. Seeker head jammed or diverted -- 30%
6. Chaff or decoys seduce the seeker -- 5%
7. Seeker chooses towed decoy -- 5%
8. Aircraft out-manuevers missile -- 40%
9. Fuse or warhead failure -- 2%


PROBABILITY OF A BVR MISSILE KILL: 17.1%


The question is simple: Even if it is technically possible to destroy an opponent's aircraft beyond a pilot's visual range, is it now or will it ever become tactically feasible?

Pierre Sprey, a co-father of the A-10 and F-16, adamantly says no. The fog of war and the complexity of air combat dictates that pilots must wait until their targets come within visual range before they can be shut down. Even if they dare to fire, the chances of a BVR missile kill are too small for the strategy to work.

But the US Air Force corporately says yes, a sentiment echoed by the makers of the F-35 Lightning II, which its supporters will likely concede is optimized for the BVR fight.

To be sure, since 1991, the USAF has fired 13 AMRAAMs to achieve six BVR kills, a 45% success rate, according to this Rand air power study. But Rand's analysts note that these shots have come against inferior or unsuspecting opponents, and offer no confidence that an engagement with modern Su-30s would bear similar results.
BVR and Russian roulette - The DEW Line

And to sum things up AFAIK there havent even been a combat record of Russian BVRs.

U can jam PESA radar signals(having a single definite frequency) but it won't be much use when AESA radars comes into play, and no matter how experienced pilot you are, you can't out maneuver any AAM around.

WTF! only Radar Guided Missile i.e. BVR is guided to an extent by AESA or MSA or PESA however, after that the radar turns on its own seaker (radar for simplicity). WVR Heaters use IR seeker or in combination an optical seeker so AESA has very little to do in their guidance other than updating the coordinates.

Midcourse. During missile flight, target location, direction, and speed are continuously calculated by the launcher radar. This information is transmitted from the ship (or plane, or truck) to the missile via radar, which adjusts its course to intercept the target. Missile functioning is continuously transmitted to the launcher via radio.
Homing. When the missile approaches target vicinity, it activates its own radar and searches for the target itself, so that launcher radar no longer is required. The image below is what a target missile (one attacking you) looks like to the attacking missile (one you use to counterattack the attacker):

here are another couple of pain pills for you
Heat-Seeking Missile Guidance
How Guided Missiles Work

Wanna break these myths then do it with logic in a civilized manner,

I do but the problem is that some people deny themselves to be worth it

BS claims can even down a F-22 with a J-7 :wave

This statement is can actually be treated as self denial as If your point holds that everything is worthless (both Pilot and Platform) against an A2A missile.
and Lastly people in those videos are actually serving personnel with different Air forces. You dont even know how to fly an aircraft Kid so have a solid reason to differ
P:S: Next time when you come up, come up with solid sources , information and knowledge to back ur claim and try to stay to the point (Dragging AESA and PESA has little to do with when we are discussing A2A missile's performance in stand alone)

 

[SQ8]

Ridiculous arguments.. ridiculous replies.

And nowhere apart from the comment by Mr Gupta in that article does it imply the PAF having anything to do with the typhoons.

The PAF has had its check ride in the typhoon in the 90's.
Most arab air forces usually prefer to let the western suppliers dictate the trainers.
The UAEAF F-16's were till recently off limits to the PAF exchange officers.. who were limited to the M2K-9.