PAF more vulnerable than ever: Ex IAF officer

[IceCold]

If your aircraft is launching a missile with 550km range (raad) how good is that mig cover???

By the way thats what this article is arguing stand off weapons and although i do agree with most he said kindly appreciate u are arguing exactly opposite


Future is of stand off weapons and it will be difficult to defend with missiles and Migs...
Take syria. For example where s 400 is being humiliated on daily basis

You dont just fire the missile at its max range and be done with it. That is not how it works? And Migs have a very large combat radius compared to anything we got so yes my argument remains valid. PAF lacks legs to provide decent air cover to our ship assets and also to keep IN from blocking karachi.
And Syrian example is not valid in case of India and Pakistan. S-400 is not being humiliated its a tact understanding between two superpowers to stay clear of each other and not to engage each others assets. Besides even if i take your word of being humiliated being true (which it is not) americans are using F-22 and Israelis F-35, please tell me which stealth 5th generation fighter does PAF operate currently that we will use against India?

 

[Mrc]

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kesy kesy jhantoo

You dont just fire the missile at its max range and be done with it. That is not how it works? And Migs have a very large combat radius compared to anything we got so yes my argument remains valid. PAF lacks legs to provide decent air cover to our ship assets and also to keep IN from blocking karachi.
And Syrian example is not valid in case of India and Pakistan. S-400 is not being humiliated its a tact understanding between two superpowers to stay clear of each other and not to engage each others assets. Besides even if i take your word of being humiliated being true (which it is not) americans are using F-22 and Israelis F-35, please tell me which stealth 5th generation fighter does PAF operate currently that we will use against India?

I heard s400 destryed a squadran of israli f16s when they caused that russian plane to be shot down while hiding behind it killing 13 russians that russia held them responsible for

 

[IceCold]

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I heard s400 destryed a squadran of israli f16s when they caused that russian plane to be shot down while hiding behind it killing 13 russians that russia held them responsible for

Why are you arguing for the sake of it, you think India is Syria even if i agree everything else?

 

[Mrc]

Why are you arguing for the sake of it, you think India is Syria even if i agree everything else?

Does s400 of syria become s800 in india??

Kindly read the article first...

It says future is of stand off weapons and i agree... Consider your argument according

 

[IceCold]

Does s400 of syria become s800 in india??

Kindly read the article first...

It says future is of stand off weapons and i agree... Consider your argument according

Ok! Does Syria have an air force with SU-30, Rafales, Mirages & Migs? Does your comparison even make sense? You are taking it far too personal instead of seeing the bigger picture.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Not vulnerable enough ..

 

[313ghazi]

I beg to differ. We were a lot more vulnerable with the Mig-25 carried out a sonic boom over Islamabad. Back then our airforce was reliant on out of date planes, we struggled for parts, have no BVR capability.

Today we have a larger airforce, we have modern fighter jets, we have improved air defences, we have the ability to detect aircraft deep in enemy territory (AWACS), we have much greater integration between land based and air based air defence systems.

No country is not vulnerable one way or the other. Our geography has not changed, we lack depth in size. But that doesn't mean India is not vulnerable either. We can target their airbases ~700km deep into their territory with cruise missiles. They can do the same for us. We can detect their aircraft 300km inside their own territory, they can do the same for us.

Obviously this tech is not all knowing and all seeing, you can fly in ways to avoid radar, you can setup radar in ways to counteract that.

Are we vulnerable - yes, are they vulnerable - yes.
Are we less vulnerable than we used to be - yes.

Retired military men need to provide soundbites to get attention.

 

[Mrc]

Does s400 of syria become s800 in india??

Ok! Does Syria have an air force with SU-30, Rafales, Mirages & Migs? Does your comparison even make sense? You are taking it far too personal instead of seeing the bigger picture.

Try to stick to topic..

S400 is deployed by Russia in syria... With su 35 and su 57... Pantsir s 300 plus what not

Thread is not about syria


U cannot discus whole airwar in one thread

 

[BRAVO_]

in Syrian case S-400 is indeed a game changer though lots of other steps diplomatically taken by Russian and Syrians to control the situation and deployment of s-400 was one of them, but since the time of its deployment in Syria, its skies are free from enemies aircrafts.

 

[IceCold]

Try to stick to topic..

S400 is deployed by Russia in syria... With su 35 and su 57... Pantsir s 300 plus what not

Thread is not about syria


U cannot discus whole airwar in one thread

I am sticking to the topic which is about PAF being vulnerable, you decided to jump in with your gibberish about S-400 taking a beating and what not. Follow your own advise and quit quoting me.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

same technologies also make indian airforce vulnerable.

 

[My-Analogous]

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is more vulnerable than ever before even as long-range standoff weapons fired from planes and beyond visual-range missiles and drones have taken over in the modern air warfare where daring air raids with fighter jets flying across border may not be needed anymore.

These views were expressed by experts and former pilots, who have seen air battle during the 1965 Indo-Pak War, while debating “Air Power Lessons Learnt from the 1965 War and their Implementation” on the last day of the Military literature Festival (December 7-9) here today.

Responding to a question about the now role of the Indian Air Force in the context of Pakistan and China, Air Vice Marshal Manmohan Bahadur (retd), who is Additional Director General of think-tank Centre for Air Power Studies (CAPS), said: “A tandem manned and unmanned mission will be a reality. A human sitting inside a manned plane (fighter jet or transporter) will control the UAV that will be flying ahead to fire at a target. There will be a human behind the decision”.
He said the capability existed to have long-range strikes, “but unless we have total air dominance, the intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) facilities make it difficult. Yes, the beyond visual range (BVR) missiles are here to stay”, he said, adding “space-based weapons are far away. We are too far to see something fired from space at a ground target”.

New Delhi-based Pushpinder Singh, author of several books on military, including one on the PAF, said: “The PAF is more vulnerable than ever before.” In 1965, he said, the “PAF was cocky, they were young”. Deep down inside they knew if they made a mistake, they could be wiped out.
“They had this plan to strike at IAF bases, but they fumbled and messed up.” However, he said, in the past five to seven years, the PAF honed its skill in fighting a mountain battle due to its efforts in North Waziristan.

Jagan Pilarisetti, author of two books — one each on 1965 and 1971 wars —pointed out that during the 1965 battle, India did not have the air-to-air missile that the PAF had. “There was no strategy to win the war. We were just reacting. Lessons were learnt and in 1971 it was a different no-holds-barred fight.”

Air Marshal Bharat Kumar (retd) moderated the session. Group Captain RS Chhatwal discussed the role of radars in helping fighter pilots.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/paf-more-vulnerable-than-ever-ex-officer/696152.html

With over 45% assets are 4th gen and faster transformation then India, Yes PAF is leg behind then India.

 

[Basel]

PAF was weakest during 90s and even then India was not able to attack Pakistan how they think they will now??

AESA radar is game changer stuff and 200+ AESA equipped fighter jets are force to recon with, also the mandate of PAF is to protect Pakistani skies and deny IAF dominance over battlefields and in future they can do it, because both countries will not fight a long war as both know its consequences.

IAF will have major edge when they will be able to field good numbers of capable 5th gen bird while PAF can not do it at the same time.

 

[Imran Khan]

PAF was weakest during 90s and even then India was not able to attack Pakistan how they think they will now??

AESA radar is game changer stuff and 200+ AESA equipped fighter jets are force to recon with, also the mandate of PAF is to protect Pakistani skies and deny IAF dominance over battlefields and in future they can do it, because both countries will not fight a long war as both know its consequences.

IAF will have major edge when they will be able to field good numbers of capable 5th gen bird while PAF can not do it at the same time.

franclly i think PAF will induct 5th gen fighter before IAF . its not because paksitan is my country but IAF is worse to buy things . FGFA was edge which india loss it already

 

[Cuirassier]

Disagree, PAF was weakest in 90s