PAF locked on 9 shoot only two...PAF official....0n 27 Feb....

[Aasimkhan]

You seriously have some mental issues----. Maybe a PAF pilot stole your wife and ever since then you became a pathetic loser-----. u are nothing but a useless worst then a arms chair security guard---.
You need to gtfo of this forum----.
.|.


100 KM? even Indians dont claim that imaginary number.
The reason why IAF Mirages were carrying Spice-2000 standoff weapon so that they could launch it from long distance without having to enter much into pakistan.

Unfortunately Mastan Khan, Psychic and a few others have made it a point to malign the name of forces (especially its top brass) and drive a wedge between rank and file. This is more dangerous than poison.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Unfortunately Mastan Khan, Psychic and a few others have made it a point to malign the name of forces (especially its top brass) and drive a wedge between rank and file. This is more dangerous than poison.

Mastan khan needs to shut up.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Umm no Psychic. You are confusing the event I described. You added the 100 km to probably another assumed Foxbat incident. The one I referred to is different than the one you mixed. There is no detailed article on that one.

lol, I agree with you 100%. Those who are maximum confused have the highest voice on this forum.

 

[KAI KAI Baloch]

My questions:
All said and done.... some of our esteemed indian fellows say that roe were not defined for su30 and mirages to engage paf jets...
Either because of clarity of roe or because 6:1 ratio...
My question then why didnt the same rule apply to mig21 of abhi...
Would you send a low performance aircraft to engage as compared to the best you have!!!
At one time abhi comms were jammed yet he was able to communicate about firing of the missle to minty??

 

[Aasimkhan]

My questions:
All said and done.... some of our esteemed indian fellows say that roe were not defined for su30 and mirages to engage paf jets...
Either because of clarity of roe or because 6:1 ratio...
My question then why didnt the same rule apply to mig21 of abhi...
Would you send a low performance aircraft to engage as compared to the best you have!!!
At one time abhi comms were jammed yet he was able to communicate about firing of the missle to minty??

Everything the Indians say is BS crap. All based on lies and deceit.
The facts are simple.
1. AIM120 AMRAAM was the game changer weapon in the region till 27-2-2019. It had the highest accuracy and longest range.
2.Any and every pilot, irrespective of the aircraft model, will try to avoid AMRAAM. That includes SU30 also.
3. Abi Nandan was the unfortunate guy who was ordered to intercept PAF.
4. Poor guy obeyed the orders and was shot down.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Since you have a certain background please do not treat others like me a "Bloody Civilian" those days are gone..time has passed...that same logic makes insecurities come out. do not be a dinosaur...there is no effort to disrespect or malign our armed forces.

I love my country...my armed forces...and respect them but that love makes me ask tough questions? your sentence above is a relic of time "Yes Sir"

Respect and get respect!

lol, no hard feelings bro
Actually these days there are more civilians referring to to themselves as bloody civilians than the Army guys, Somebody was telling me the word BLOODY was discussed in English parliament to determine was actually an abuse or otherwise and they reached a conclusion that it was not. I dont know why you take it on your hearts so much. Its a common word in Armed forces used most extensively by seniors while admonishing their juniors. There are many other words also which only men in uniform understand due to their context. If you as much as heard one of those words you will lose your sleep if BLOODY upsets you. But it would be unjust to call you by those names in front of you when you are not aware of the context. It is not your fault so I wont blame you for that. And i believe that insecurities are not on our side. They are on your side. Civilians desire to live closer to Army cantonments, to become member of Army clubs, to live in DHA, to get treated by Army doctors in CMHs, put on fancy plates on private cars similar to Army vehicles all show who is insecure. Again being Pakistani citizens i dont think they are too much at fault. Any self respecting citizen should love its armed forces just as you said yourself. And frankly speaking I dont even mind your asking tough questions. We spend the hard earned amount of a poor nation. We should be answerable for every cent we spend. I do not know whether you will believe or not that 95% people are cognizant of this fact. I remember as late as 2004 we were driving 1952 model vehicles by spending extra man hours on maintenance. I know there are few black sheeps in our ranks. Some rotten eggs do climb up the ranks also but they are very few. On the other hand name one individual who is clean in Revenue or FBR or Police or WAPDA or Railway and many many other departments but no one on this forum has ever talked about it which is not only unfortunate but unfair to the Jawan who is guarding the border at Siachen at 22000 feet in -50 degrees.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Again, cowardice of epic proportions.
And why someone needs "orders" to shoot a bogey some 100 km inside own airspace over national capital is a serious weakness in the command structure. Orders to shoot should've been given when the planes were scrambled; Moreover, the pilots should be free to take the required action on their own initiative.
These stories which hide serious weaknesses and tales of cowardice only further highlight the fact that pilots are not allowed to take initiative based on continuously changing environment around them and have to rely on ground control which delays everything. Again, only weaknesses are being highlighted to those who are not mere fanboys.

Bottomline is, the enemy came in more than a 100 kilometers inside our airspace and got away without a scratch. They've got the bragging rights. Sitting behind the tails and sidewinders sensing its heat and all that is nothing but SOB stories. Someone didn't have the guts to pull the trigger. Time to admit and try not to repeat the same mistakes.@Sine Nomine @MastanKhan

In very bitter and rather obnoxious way i want to say that we have become like a chick,who wants to get laid down but on a condition that her chastity remains intact.

 

[Aasimkhan]

In very bitter and rather obnoxious way i want to say that we have become like a chick,who wants to get laid down but on a condition that her chastity remains intact.

The bitterness of a novice is understandable.

Don't rely on professionals too much.

Similar calculations were made in 65 and in 71. We now, know the results of those calculations.



Again, cowardice of epic proportions.
And why someone needs "orders" to shoot a bogey some 100 km inside own airspace over national capital is a serious weakness in the command structure. Orders to shoot should've been given when the planes were scrambled; Moreover, the pilots should be free to take the required action on their own initiative.
These stories which hide serious weaknesses and tales of cowardice only further highlight the fact that pilots are not allowed to take initiative based on continuously changing environment around them and have to rely on ground control which delays everything. Again, only weaknesses are being highlighted to those who are not mere fanboys.

Bottomline is, the enemy came in more than a 100 kilometers inside our airspace and got away without a scratch. They've got the bragging rights. Sitting behind the tails and sidewinders sensing its heat and all that is nothing but SOB stories. Someone didn't have the guts to pull the trigger. Time to admit and try not to repeat the same mistakes.@Sine Nomine @MastanKhan

If you dont trust professionals then you can go to palmists. Your take bro

 

[Sine Nomine]

The bitterness of a novice is understandable.

Better refrain from doing online chest thumping about being professional,since you don't know me, neither i know you.Take your professional highness to somewhere else.

 

[Mentee]

Maybe a PAF pilot stole your wife and ever since then you became a pathetic loser--

Don't have nothing in the brain to counter stats and empirical evidence let's drag his female family members. Bravo lima nimboo!

Myth buster you just reminded me of an extremely insecure rural folk. A layman kinda guy was erecting his mansion's wall and then a man of his acquaintance, a mistri by profession, reached there at the construction site. The rural guy wanted to snatch the opportunity to show off and asked for the mistri's opinion about his work.

The mistri in all his honesty told the show off that the wall is not straight but parallel and the labourers employed there also noded in yes - - - - - - -. this straight answer infuriated his bruised ego so failure to find no immediate saving grace made him yell at the mistri


"Teri v ty behnoo (behan) nath (bhaag) gy c"

Seriously? @SIPRA

The reason why IAF Mirages were carrying Spice-2000 standoff weapon so that they could launch it from long distance without having to enter much into pakistan.

Technically they had those 300 kids killed if it wasn't for an act of Lord Almighty. They however intruded into our international airspace and emptied their payload

 

[CriticalThought]

I’m being dismissive because I know of actual kits being used, while you’re sending me links to HUAWEI and US?

IAF will remain a near peer air force for PAF, they weren’t given codes to PAF owned AMRAAMs or SD-10As et al. To be honest, for the longest time, people were of the opinion that PAF could not even operate its F-16 fleet against India. It didn’t matter how much you countered that opinion with facts, some people opted to continue thinking so.
It’s the same situation now.

Even if French were to give up all upgrades done to DA-20s, it just forms one small part of our EW strategy. This isn’t to suggest that PAF will not lose aircrafts to IAF but that IAF does not enjoy conventional superiority over PAF.

The link was to show beyond doubt the existence and severity of hardware security threats. After reading that information, a rational reader will acknowledge the risks associated with OEM compromise.

The trouble with hardware trojans is that they are harmless until they aren't. You could win 99 battles using external electronic hardware, but it still doesn't provide any proof that the trojan doesn't exist. It only shows that your suppliers have not triggered the trojan yet. You are forever at the mercy of external suppliers of electronics, and now that IAF understands the importance, you can rest assured they will do their level best to compromise our OEMs. Case in point the Indian Air Chief's visit to Sweden.

The fact that the entire supply of military electronics is limited to a few suppliers makes the problem even more severe. As an example, Saab is a system integrator and designer, but it needs others to supply the electronics components that comprise its products. Your enemy will keep moving upstream until it finds a weakness. And you have more enemies than you have friends amongst technologically advanced nations.

Thats true.

But my point was different. Members here claimed that an F-16 scrambled from Kamra had a firing solution on the foxbat with the sidewinder and was just 1-1.5 NM below him but didn't have the clearance to shoot. A detailed article was also shared some time ago which claimed the same thing. The foxbat made a turn and escaped (it was deep inside Pak when F-16 was on its tail).

Now, my point was about why the pilot waited to receive clearance; that was a weakness

That was SOP. Air power isn't employed at the behest of fighter pilots, it is employed with a lot of thought and planning. Understand this otherwise you only devalue your opinion.

 

[Psychic]

The link was to show beyond doubt the existence and severity of hardware security threats. After reading that information, a rational reader will acknowledge the risks associated with OEM compromise.

The trouble with hardware trojans is that they are harmless until they aren't. You could win 99 battles using external electronic hardware, but it still doesn't provide any proof that the trojan doesn't exist. It only shows that your suppliers have not triggered the trojan yet. You are forever at the mercy of external suppliers of electronics, and now that IAF understands the importance, you can rest assured they will do their level best to compromise our OEMs. Case in point the Indian Air Chief's visit to Sweden.

The fact that the entire supply of military electronics is limited to a few suppliers makes the problem even more severe. As an example, Saab is a system integrator and designer, but it needs others to supply the electronics components that comprise its products. Your enemy will keep moving upstream until it finds a weakness. And you have more enemies than you have friends amongst technologically advanced nations.



That was SOP. Air power isn't employed at the behest of fighter pilots, it is employed with a lot of thought and planning. Understand this otherwise you only devalue your opinion.

There is no time for thought or planning when enemy is doing sonic booms over your national capital.

 

[BATMAN]

Hi,

That was the worst decision ever---which will come to haunt Paf at a later time----.

It's obvious that in next meeting PAF will encounter Rafaels not SU and mig. BVR will be mica instead of R77.

Actually ever since 27th February, all defense equipment manufacturing states have embarked on next level electronic warfare technologies and strategies.

 

[Trango Towers]

Unfortunately Mastan Khan, Psychic and a few others have made it a point to malign the name of forces (especially its top brass) and drive a wedge between rank and file. This is more dangerous than poison.

He is a useless drunk who sits in america kiss white a55 and complaining about Pakistan. Yet it's our jawaans and officers that face the bullets daily. He sips his Budweiser

 

[kursed]

The link was to show beyond doubt the existence and severity of hardware security threats. After reading that information, a rational reader will acknowledge the risks associated with OEM compromise.

Okay. Let me see if I can explain this side of ops to you. There is no way for anyone to mitigate against X86 hardware vulnerabilities. It's as of right now, not even possible for the Chinese to achieve complete divergence from Western X86 chips. Even for them, top of the line chip designs are based on Zen micro-architecture built under license from AMD. All of this, while they continue working on ARM designs to mitigate for these factors for their military systems. (my day job is relevant to this subject, so I can keep discussing chip architectures all day)

Now, coming to Pakistan, you are expecting the United States to 'share' 0-day hardware exploits with India, which it does not even do with the Israelis under most circumstances. Zero-days are the most prized possession for any professional cyber operations outfit, so please explain to me that why'd they share something of that sort with the Indians to use against, of all the targets in the world, Pakistan, given that once used - they become useless?

Now, it'd help to remember Indian Establishment's long-standing ties with Russia as well. Do you genuinely believe that US will 'sacrifice' its trove of 0-day hardware vulnerabilities - that in turn - also weaken their own X86 systems being used everywhere in the US, by sharing it with a partner that has long-standing defense ties with Russia? Because it wants India to take on Pakistan. =) Do you take US mil establishment for fools?

This is not how this works.

As for the visit, we have had ERIEYE's since 2006/7, IAF chiefs did not wake up yesterday to their utility for Pakistan Air Force, there's a reason they got attacked at Kamra in the past.