PAF locked on 9 shoot only two...PAF official....0n 27 Feb....

[kursed]

You genuinely think that Pakistan operates one OEM centric EW equipment. :/

And I can’t comment on political rhetoric cos that’s all it’s, rhetorics.

 

[CriticalThought]

You genuinely think that Pakistan operates one OEM centric EW equipment. :/

And I can’t comment on political rhetoric cos that’s all it’s, rhetorics.

There are a limited number of manufacturers in the military semiconductor space. Many systems on the market are merely repackaging of components with a few capabilities tweaked. But regardless, there are only a limited number of Western suppliers even willing to sell us any hi-tech equipment to Pakistan. Thus, you are cornered back under the American thumb who are already acting as your pimps. Of course there is the black market, but that is again a double-edged sword. Read the link below, from which I am quoting only some relevant material

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk...as-huawei-based-partly-on-nsas-own-spy-tricks

The NSA allegedly launched an operation code-named "Shotgiant" in 2007 aimed at uncovering any possible ties between Huawei—a company that likes to boast of how its routers and switches connect a third of the world's population—and China's military, known as the People's Liberation Army, according to the New York Times and Der Spiegel. Operation Shotgiant also aimed to compromise and exploit Huawei's technology so that the NSA could infiltrate the computer networks of Huawei customers in "high-priority target" countries such as Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kenya, and Cuba.

Other NSA hardware exploits include hardware implants for Dell and Hewlett-Packard servers. Such implants must be installed in person by NSA operatives during an "interdiction" process described by Der Spiegel. That means the NSA intercepts certain shipping deliveries of new computers or related accessories so that it can load spyware or install hardware components that provide back door access for U.S. intelligence agents later on.

"These specialized devices require someone to physically touch a specific piece of hardware to insert the NSA-designed component," Bumgarner says. "It's highly unlikely that these components are being embedded during manufacturing, which means that they're being installed after the hardware is in either the supply chain or maintenance cycle."

There is nothing political in any of what I say. Our national security is at risk, it is time to rise above politics.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Thanks for the insight.... but why didn't IK refused to agree to such plan!
He was the PM... he should not have settled any less than conquest of Kashmir.
Bottom line remains, a well created opportunity is lost by poor decision making, only God knows what was the motive but how IK handled return of Abhinandan, my suspicious lies square on him.

If by shooting 9 planes you can get Kashmir be my guest. Professionals have calculated this cost and its way beyond your imagination.

 

[kursed]

There are a limited number of manufacturers in the military semiconductor space. Many systems on the market are merely repackaging of components with a few capabilities tweaked. But regardless, there are only a limited number of Western suppliers even willing to sell us any hi-tech equipment to Pakistan. Thus, you are cornered back under the American thumb who are already acting as your pimps. Of course there is the black market, but that is again a double-edged sword. Read the link below, from which I am quoting only some relevant material

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk...as-huawei-based-partly-on-nsas-own-spy-tricks




There is nothing political in any of what I say. Our national security is at risk, it is time to rise above politics.

I don’t need to read the link, I know which kits are we using. And none of the above concerns are valid. You’re going against a near peer Air Force, not the USAF. In any case, do try and develop at least certain basic knowledge of aerial warfare, it’s nothing like how you’re propositioning it to be.

As for the vile rhetoric that you keep indulging in, it doesn’t seem like you’re actually interested in having an actual conversation (in reference to dance naked, pimps et al).

By all means, keep the tin hat on, but count me out on further engaging on vitriol.

 

[CriticalThought]

I don’t need to read the link, I know which kits are we using. And none of the above concerns are valid. You’re going against a near peer Air Force, not the USAF. In any case, do try and develop at least certain basic knowledge of aerial warfare, it’s nothing like how you’re propositioning it to be.

As for the vile rhetoric that you keep indulging in, it doesn’t seem like you’re actually interested in having an actual conversation (in reference to dance naked, pimps et al).

By all means, keep the tin hat on, but count me out on further engaging on vitriol.

You are simply being dismissive. Today the whole world is concerned about OEM compromise and you are acting like there is nothing to it.

I don't think you have read geo-political signals correctly. France has stood shoulder to shoulder with India against Pakistan. The Rafale isn't just a COTS purchase. You think France will want to see its prize fighter blown out of the sky because of Indian incompetence? You cannot regard IAF as merely a peer airforce any more. Western powers are joining together to change the balance of power in the region.

Aerial warfare does not take place in a vacuum. If there is one lesson to be learnt from the 27 Feb fiasco, it is that employment of air power must be accompanied by a planned, coordinated, and well executed foreign policy. Employing air power without meeting strategic objectives is foolish. Failing to obtain strategic objectives when air power delivers a decisive advantage is downright treasonous.

I apologize if my language has offended you. But it comes deep from my heart. I am truly distraught at what is happening to my country. I will try my best to avoid offensive language.

 

[kursed]

I’m being dismissive because I know of actual kits being used, while you’re sending me links to HUAWEI and US?

IAF will remain a near peer air force for PAF, they weren’t given codes to PAF owned AMRAAMs or SD-10As et al. To be honest, for the longest time, people were of the opinion that PAF could not even operate its F-16 fleet against India. It didn’t matter how much you countered that opinion with facts, some people opted to continue thinking so.
It’s the same situation now.

Even if French were to give up all upgrades done to DA-20s, it just forms one small part of our EW strategy. This isn’t to suggest that PAF will not lose aircrafts to IAF but that IAF does not enjoy conventional superiority over PAF.

 

[Psychic]

Professionals have calculated this cost and its way beyond your imagination.

Don't rely on professionals too much.

Similar calculations were made in 65 and in 71. We now, know the results of those calculations.

Yes it is true. The Viper was about 1-1.5 nm on tail with the Foxbat, the Foxbat had no clue he had a Viper sitting tail on passive until ARM was engaged and his RWR kicked in. Sadly no kill or engagement was achieved as no orders were given.

Again, cowardice of epic proportions.
And why someone needs "orders" to shoot a bogey some 100 km inside own airspace over national capital is a serious weakness in the command structure. Orders to shoot should've been given when the planes were scrambled; Moreover, the pilots should be free to take the required action on their own initiative.
These stories which hide serious weaknesses and tales of cowardice only further highlight the fact that pilots are not allowed to take initiative based on continuously changing environment around them and have to rely on ground control which delays everything. Again, only weaknesses are being highlighted to those who are not mere fanboys.

Bottomline is, the enemy came in more than a 100 kilometers inside our airspace and got away without a scratch. They've got the bragging rights. Sitting behind the tails and sidewinders sensing its heat and all that is nothing but SOB stories. Someone didn't have the guts to pull the trigger. Time to admit and try not to repeat the same mistakes.@Sine Nomine @MastanKhan

 

[MastanKhan]

If by shooting 9 planes you can get Kashmir be my guest. Professionals have calculated this cost and its way beyond your imagination.

Hi,

Capture of kashmir was not the target---. Your professionals are cowards---. They were satisfied by shooing away the enemy on the night of the 26th---.

Indeed the cost would be high on you---.

You have made good money in the last 18 years---. Who wants to fight a war when personal coffers are full---.

Wars are fought by hungry people at the top---.

 

[Psychic]

You seriously have some mental issues----. Maybe a PAF pilot stole your wife and ever since then you became a pathetic loser-----. u are nothing but a useless worst then a arms chair security guard---.


100 KM? even Indians dont claim that imaginary number.
The reason why IAF Mirages were carrying Spice-2000 standoff weapon so that they could launch it from long distance without having to enter much into pakistan.

I am talking about the Foxbat incident

 

[Humble Analyst]

Should have gone for all of them...

You lock, you shoot...

They've come for you, so you take them out...

Well had to avoid an all out war too so can’t shoot everything

 

[Raider 21]

I am talking about the Foxbat incident

How do you know it was 100 km when the range for it has not been told.

Well had to avoid an all out war too so can’t shoot everything

That does not satisfy them for an answer. A pilot in their mind should be able to start and end a war in all possible accounts whether he chooses to go rogue or not with a pit stop landing at his own place of choosing. Give them a Viper, and they'll make themselves dictators.

 

[Psychic]

How do you know it was 100 km when the range for it has not been told.

It came right above Islamabad.

100km or 80 or 120...doesn't matter.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I am talking about the Foxbat incident

O I C.
well F-104 went as far as Agra during 65 war which is 500km away.
PAF lost decade was 1990s as it failed to acquire long range SAM due to sanctions otherwise mig-25 would be no where near the border. IAF retired mig-25 because PAF acquired AMRAAMs which could shoot it down.

 

[Psychic]

PAF lost decade was 1990s as it failed to acquire long range SAM due to sanctions.

Thats true.

But my point was different. Members here claimed that an F-16 scrambled from Kamra had a firing solution on the foxbat with the sidewinder and was just 1-1.5 NM below him but didn't have the clearance to shoot. A detailed article was also shared some time ago which claimed the same thing. The foxbat made a turn and escaped (it was deep inside Pak when F-16 was on its tail).

Now, my point was about why the pilot waited to receive clearance; that was a weakness

well F-104 went as far as Agra during 65 war which is 500km away.

That was war.

Their planes also came at Sargodha and else where. But, during peace time when a single bogey enters deep inside is a different story just like Canberra shot down over Rawalpindi (it was similar to the foxbat incident minus the fact that pilots didn't hesitate for a second despite using only guns)

 

[Raider 21]

Thats true.

But my point was different. Members here claimed that an F-16 scrambled from Kamra had a firing solution on the foxbat with the sidewinder and was just 1-1.5 NM below him but didn't have the clearance to shoot. A detailed article was also shared some time ago which claimed the same thing. The foxbat made a turn and escaped (it was deep inside Pak when F-16 was on its tail).

Now, my point was about why the pilot waited to receive clearance; that was a weakness

That was war.

Their planes also came at Sargodha and else where. But, during peace time when a single bogey enters deep inside is a different story just like Canberra shot down over Rawalpindi (it was similar to the foxbat incident minus the fact that pilots didn't hesitate for a second despite using only guns)

Umm no Psychic. You are confusing the event I described. You added the 100 km to probably another assumed Foxbat incident. The one I referred to is different than the one you mixed. There is no detailed article on that one.