PAF Heroes Who Surprised India !

[Zulfiqar]

Why PAF is obliged to give any details. This whole thread is just a show off. Professionals complete their work and move on. We do know some of the posters are connected but why they have to give out unnecessary information.

They are not obligated to. Was just saying that they might do it on 6 sep or 23rd March.

 

[Falcon26]

Be careful of what you post.

First...I am USAF veteran, F-111 Cold War, then F-16 Desert Storm.

Now...On the F-111, can the jet be flown by one pilot, specifically the left seater? Yes, but he would not be able to accomplish a combat sortie because the F-111 was designed to be flown by EITHER seat but need both pilots to operate the jet in a combat sortie. Other than the EF-111 which have no controls for the right seater, the right seat pilot can actually fly the jet, albeit with some difficulty, by himself. But for the 'regular' F-111, to accomplish a combat sortie, the left seater flies the jet and the right seater operate the weapons systems. Left = Pilot. Right = Weapons Systems Officer (WSO).

Next...The F-16 two-seater B/D models cannot be compared to the F-111. The B/D models are trainers but literally everything regarding accomplishing a combat sortie can be done by the front cockpit. In other words, IF NECESSARY, a B/D jet can be sent into combat with only the front cockpit pilot.

The F-14 can be flown only by the front cockpit -- the pilot. The rear cockpit is for the Naval Flight Officer who is not a pilot. For a combat sortie, the F-14 must have a pilot and an NFO.

The F-15 Strike Eagle usually flies with both rated pilots, but the rear cockpit's primary responsibility is weapons, not flight. If the front cockpit becomes inop for any reason, the rear cockpit can take over flight duties but would not be able to accomplish a combat sortie. For combat, the Strike Eagle requires two pilots. The USAF do not an NFO equivalent. Either a pilot or not.

In an airliner, the jet was literally designed with task partitioning in mind, meaning one pilot does one set of tasks and the other pilot does the another set of tasks.

The F-16 was not designed that way. In theory, for the F-16B/D models, the rear cockpit (GIB), should be able to fly a combat sortie but I have not heard of such. The B/D models are usually reserved for training and familiarity. For the new F-16 pilot, he would get an intro flight from the rear cockpit, then as his training progresses, he would transition to the front cockpit and the IP to the rear. But F-16 two-seaters do not need two pilots to fly a combat sortie.

Please avoid making generalizations like this.

This is an excellent post. Thanks for clearing for the laypeople like me. A quick question: what do you make of the wreckage of the AMRAAM shown by the Indians? Can any conclusion be reached?

 

[SQ8]

How does one determine if an aircraft is about to fire a missile? Positioning of the aircraft vis-a-vis the intended target?

If you are locked on with an aircraft, Positioning vis a vis yourself or friendly forces. AC Tufail doesn’t mention it but I have a feeling that the Su was going after the Mirage 3 guidance aircraft for the H-4 weapon which was inside Indian territory during the final moments prior to impact for the H-4.

 

[AbuzarIlyas]

Yes, but initial claims were that they thunders shot migs.

ISPR never claimed that

 

[sneakerspark]

If you are locked on with an aircraft, Positioning vis a vis yourself or friendly forces. AC Tufail doesn’t mention it but I have a feeling that the Su was going after the Mirage 3 guidance aircraft for the H-4 weapon which was inside Indian territory during the final moments prior to impact for the H-4.

Not necessarily. I believe mirages and jf17s weren't challenged while they were delivering their payload. It was after the impact Indian realized what has happened and reacted in haste. None of the mirages crossed the loc.

 

[SQ8]

Not necessarily. I believe mirages and jf17s weren't challenged while they were delivering their payload. It was after the impact Indian realized what has happened and reacted in haste. None of the mirages crossed the loc.

Then what was the justification on firing on the Su-30?
Unless it came to engage our jets heading towards the LoC
The F-16s never crossed over as such.

 

[nomi007]

You have named the two pilots then what more is left to ask.

JF-17 role in whole operation

You have named the two pilots then what more is left to ask.

Bro
Hassan Siddiqi or Jf-17 who is mig-21 hunter?

 

[Talon]

Then what was the justification on firing on the Su-30?
Unless it came to engage our jets heading towards the LoC
The F-16s never crossed over as such.

Mirages crossed the LOC just for a few miles which is normal when you are turning back your aircraft,so you could say We didnot go into IOK.

Only Abhinundun crossed the LOC,Su30 were well within there territory thats why only one was fired at.This is also an answer to @MastanKhan query that why locked aircrafts were not fired at.You just dont shoot down 8 aircrafts that are in their own territory.It will start war.

People need to understand GIBS is a must in PAF in case of a two seater and there was indeed a GIBS in SL Hassan's aircraft and he was a high ranked person.It makes no sense to release names of each and every person involved especially of a high ranking officer.Plus as @Windjammer mentioned some people dont prefer fame.Why are people giving justifications to these retarded Indians.

 

[sneakerspark]

Then what was the justification on firing on the Su-30?
Unless it came to engage our jets heading towards the LoC
The F-16s never crossed over as such.

I don't know the exact scenario but I believe a formation of Su30 was vectored towards LoC to engage the CAP team on our side of the boarder. Having seen the intent of crossing the loc buffer zone our pilots were authorized a fox 3. It was at that time the Su30 took a sharp 180 degrees to save his ***. SL Hassan had to keep solid lock to guide the missile and did cross LoC for that matter. (This part I know for sure).

 

[Windjammer]

Then what was the justification on firing on the Su-30?
Unless it came to engage our jets heading towards the LoC
The F-16s never crossed over as such.

None of the PAF Aircraft crossed the LOC, the SU-30 was hit from a long distance just to deliver the message and we all know the physiological effects of this hit.

 

[sneakerspark]

And for people who are questioning why PAF pilots didn't engage the other aircrafts, it's simple. They had a lock on them but they weren't with in the firing parameters as they were far inside the Indian airspace and they were already retreating. There is no question about authorization. It was already there but Rules of engagement didn't allow to do so at that time.

 

[Tom_Cruise]

Mirages crossed the LOC just for a few miles which is normal when you are turning back your aircraft,so you could say We didnot go into IOK.

Only Abhinundun crossed the LOC,Su30 were well within there territory thats why only one was fired at.This is also an answer to @MastanKhan query that why locked aircrafts were not fired at.You just dont shoot down 8 aircrafts that are in their own territory.It will start war.

That's correct.

But the real question is, where was Abhni's cowardly wingman? There seems to be very little said about him from their side or on any account. He either scooted (i) before, leaving his flight lead all alone, (ii) after the engagement, or (iii) followed GCI orders to retreat before the engagement as they were straying into pak airspace.

If hes guilty of (i) he should be stripped of his wings.

 

[Flight of falcon]

Mirages crossed the LOC just for a few miles which is normal when you are turning back your aircraft,so you could say We didnot go into IOK.

Only Abhinundun crossed the LOC,Su30 were well within there territory thats why only one was fired at.This is also an answer to @MastanKhan query that why locked aircrafts were not fired at.You just dont shoot down 8 aircrafts that are in their own territory.It will start war.

People need to understand GIBS is a must in PAF in case of a two seater and there was indeed a GIBS in SL Hassan's aircraft and he was a high ranked person.It makes no sense to release names of each and every person involved especially of a high ranking officer.Plus as @Windjammer mentioned some people dont prefer fame.Why are people giving justifications to these retarded Indians.

This whole episode must not be turned into a Bollywood movie. It is totally stupid to release details of operation and worse names of pilots involved . Unbelievable that this Tuafail guy is going around revealing names of pilots involved. No need to reveal any operational details.

No doubt Indians got kicked but they want to know what size boot was used to kick them. Who cares they have a mark on their rear end. Let them figure out the size.

 

[sneakerspark]

That's correct.

But the real question is, where was Abhni's cowardly wingman? There seems to be very little said about him from their side or on any account. He either scooted (i) before, leaving his flight lead all alone, (ii) after the engagement, or (iii) followed GCI orders to retreat before the engagement as they were straying into pak airspace.

If hes guilty of (i) he should be stripped of his wings.

There wasn't just 1 wingman, there were 4. Maybe Nandu wast first one to get airborne and reached the active zone before the others.

 

[SQ8]

Mirages crossed the LOC just for a few miles which is normal when you are turning back your aircraft,so you could say We didnot go into IOK.

Only Abhinundun crossed the LOC,Su30 were well within there territory thats why only one was fired at.This is also an answer to @MastanKhan query that why locked aircrafts were not fired at.You just dont shoot down 8 aircrafts that are in their own territory.It will start war.

People need to understand GIBS is a must in PAF in case of a two seater and there was indeed a GIBS in SL Hassan's aircraft and he was a high ranked person.It makes no sense to release names of each and every person involved especially of a high ranking officer.Plus as @Windjammer mentioned some people dont prefer fame.Why are people giving justifications to these retarded Indians.

Which then could be the reason why a kill was ordered to keep the friendly assets safe.