PAF detected US planes near Jalalabad border before OBL operation

[AAtish]

They detected planes. Not Choppers... Still a failure... On detecting Chopper and OBL.....

Also this if true proves that US was ready to take on Pakistani Aircrafts if needed......

Thank god that they were not intercepted because if US planes and PAF ever come to real fight it will be a walk in the park for US.

and then they will take their 150,000 troops towards Iran or Russia for sanctuary right?? gime a break!

 

[AAtish]

Probably someone forgot to tell him to start the plane and face those helis

I think this should be the answer

 

[harpoon]

and then they will take their 150,000 troops towards Iran or Russia for sanctuary right?? gime a break!

Russia does not border Afghanisthan and Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan have huge US bases. If push comes to shove US can hold out until they bring in their big guns from their homeland.

 

[AAtish]

Russia does not border Afghanisthan and Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan have huge US bases. If push comes to shove US can hold out until they bring in their big guns from their homeland.

I really doubt that, and so does US.. thats why some "sane" senators are questioning US approach towards Pakistan..

 

[gambit]

Mr.Gambit what I speak from is the experience of a dozen PAF personnel also serving duties as my family personnel. I will give you a specific example....PAF base Minhas in Kamra has a response time of 8 min max to get its boys airborne irrespective of the pilots being asleep, dancing, watching a movie or just indisposed in the bathroom. These timings are taken very seriously in every air force. And at least in PAF there are pilots and aircrafts always on the ready. Our airbases do have 'someone in gear and on alert at all time'. They have to be, considering the close proximity of our high value strategic assets to a hostile border. The short response time of PAF is something the air force is quite proud of and has boasted about numerous times. You might also remember the bashing the (Im seriously sorry to bring the IAF in this but this is a well known example. No offence intended indeed) IAF got from the hands of certain USAF personnel for having gotten 6 of their aircraft airborne in 20 min. Though this time was when these 6 jets and their pilots were prepped and ready where as your premise states an unprepared scenario but still this example shows how seriously these timings are taken.

And for the 30 min stated to reach the interception point: Well it takes a 737 30 min to get from Lahore to Islamabad. So unless the interception point was somewhere on the Chinese border (The PAF jets were reportedly scrambled from Sargodha which is a shorter distance away from Islamabad than Lahore is) im not buying this time either. And also what happened to the boys stationed in Minhas and Peshawar???? On a "boys' night-out" perhaps, as Gambit put it?

If Pakistan deemed herself to be in such hostile situation that the PAF must have such pilots on alert status, that is Pakistan's choice, but it is not a requirement for EVERY air force in the world. Can a fighter aircraft get airborne in about 10min? Yes...But we need to know the details on how the base itself is configured for such alert status. I used to work on 'Victor Alert' F-111E fighter/bomber at RAF Upper Heyford...

Victor Alert

"Theater nuclear forces fill what would otherwise be a critical gap between strategic deterrent and conventional forces," noted USAF Col. David L. Nichols in a 1976 article for Air University Review. Keeping fighters with nuclear weapons ready to launch was not without its difficulties—or controversies. Over the years, thousands of pilots and a handful of very prominent aircraft from the F-84 to the F-15E would learn the rigors of a mission that became known as Victor Alert.

The main reason for arming short-range fighters with nuclear weapons was to provide more firepower for NATO.

...And our requirements was 15min from pilot called to take-off. Our pilots were not required to be in full flight gear, only in their flight suits, and they can be about the base, not off base. So do not presume that I do not know what I am talking about when it comes to how much work involved to have a jet ready at all times and how much time will a pilot require to be flight ready.

 

[gambit]

If this is the response time of USAF no wonder they were not able to stop 911 from happening.
I agree with Krash because i know that PAF response time for an incursion in Lahore area is under 6 minutes from Sargodha (The travel time for the jet once it's air borne is less than 2 mins) and i believe Islamabad is nearer to Sargodha than Lahore.

And how much work and how long does it take prior to being airborne?

 

[Patriot]

If Pakistan deemed herself to be in such hostile situation that the PAF must have such pilots on alert status, that is Pakistan's choice, but it is not a requirement for EVERY air force in the world. Can a fighter aircraft get airborne in about 10min? Yes...But we need to know the details on how the base itself is configured for such alert status. I used to work on 'Victor Alert' F-111E fighter/bomber at RAF Upper Heyford...

Victor Alert

...And our requirements was 15min from pilot called to take-off. Our pilots were not required to be in full flight gear, only in their flight suits, and they can be about the base, not off base. So do not presume that I do not know what I am talking about when it comes to how much work involved to have a jet ready at all times and how much time will a pilot require to be flight ready.

Due to close proxmity of India to Pakistan..just few minutes flight - PAF always have 3-4 Pilots on Air Defense Alert on all bases 24/7.

 

[harpoon]

I really doubt that, and so does US.. thats why some "sane" senators are questioning US approach towards Pakistan..

Inspite of the highly charged and patriotic drama going on for the common Pakistani the reality is very different.Pakistan and US is not heading for a collision, atleast in the near future.
US knows that she may have to spent much much more than what she is spending now on Pakistan if Pakistan becomes a US foe. Sometimes a cheque book can do things that a bullet could not.

 

[Jango]

If Pakistan deemed herself to be in such hostile situation that the PAF must have such pilots on alert status, that is Pakistan's choice, but it is not a requirement for EVERY air force in the world. Can a fighter aircraft get airborne in about 10min? Yes...But we need to know the details on how the base itself is configured for such alert status. I used to work on 'Victor Alert' F-111E fighter/bomber at RAF Upper Heyford...

Victor Alert

...And our requirements was 15min from pilot called to take-off. Our pilots were not required to be in full flight gear, only in their flight suits, and they can be about the base, not off base. So do not presume that I do not know what I am talking about when it comes to how much work involved to have a jet ready at all times and how much time will a pilot require to be flight ready.

i totally respect your profession....but india is in really close proximity to pakistan...hence the quick response....the need for Us is different...need for some other country is different...varies country by country.....

 

[krash]

So do not presume that I do not know what I am talking about when it comes to how much work involved to have a jet ready at all times and how much time will a pilot require to be flight ready.

Now why would you say that dear sir? I would have understood this statement of yours had I overtly or subliminally stated any such assumption. You frequently blame other members of "lashing" out at you when you had only "refuted" their claims on a logical bases. Now when refuted yourself you resort to such behavior yourself. I purposefully made sure, in my last post, that I wouldn't offend or challenge you, as I am in no mood of wasting anytime, but apparently that is inevitable.

If Pakistan deemed herself to be in such hostile situation that the PAF must have such pilots on alert status, that is Pakistan's choice, but it is not a requirement for EVERY air force in the world.

Yes that indeed is the case and also the point, which was being made in my previous post. My post was specifically in response to you disagreeing on the impossibility of PAF getting its birds airborne in 15 min, as stated in my post, which you had quoted.

Now can you please tell me the response time it takes to intercept a non-responding airliner over mainland USA??? Iv heard that NORAD boasts of it as being within a couple of minutes....but you can correct me on that as I cannot assure much credibility of the source having heard this in some documentary a while back. Requirements are dictated by situation and rolls.

I used to work on 'Victor Alert' F-111E fighter/bomber at RAF Upper Heyford...

...And our requirements was 15min from pilot called to take-off.

Respectfully understood....but our C-130s too really don't bother much about getting up in the air too fast (requirements, its all about the requirements).

And how much work and how long does it take prior to being airborne?

6-2=4 min.

 

[manojb]

The original article is totally made up. US told to press about operational preparedness (read awacs+f-18 stand by ). Now PAF is reporting that they detected it.. few days back PAF guys says radars were inactive.. looks like pa/paf/isi are scrambling now! Pafs operational preparedness is laxed, thanks to nuclear deterrence. US took advantage of this.
To hide one lie thousand lies are told.

 

[Last Hope]

few days back PAF guys says radars were inactive.. QUOTE]

It was the Air Cheif who claimed as a pressure from media and was in a dillema. Spokesman of PAF told it was active but we couldnt get them. About two F-16s being scrammbled, they were told in the first reports itself. plus I think we saw the Helis and the F-18s and AWAC made us think twice. PAF, ISI and Pakistan needs us, the Nation unite as their backbone, cause we are the Last Hope for them, or else they would remain emotionally shattered!

We are getting biased and fake made up news from everywhere, so just trust on those by Governments/Militaries (of Pak and US).

 

[AAtish]

Inspite of the highly charged and patriotic drama going on for the common Pakistani the reality is very different.Pakistan and US is not heading for a collision, atleast in the near future.
US knows that she may have to spent much much more than what she is spending now on Pakistan if Pakistan becomes a US foe. Sometimes a cheque book can do things that a bullet could not.

I am sorry.. am i sensing sarcasm? .. anyways, here is the "corrected" version

sometimes a "table talk" can do things that a bullet could not!... Yes i agree

 

[AAtish]

The original article is totally made up. US told to press about operational preparedness (read awacs+f-18 stand by ). Now PAF is reporting that they detected it.. few days back PAF guys says radars were inactive.. looks like pa/paf/isi are scrambling now! Pafs operational preparedness is laxed, thanks to nuclear deterrence. US took advantage of this.
To hide one lie thousand lies are told.

They are just following the lead of USA.. When the story changes in USA the Govt. of Pakistan molds its story accordingly..

The bold part is sooo true.. i'm watching CNN right now...

 

[gambit]

Yes that indeed is the case and also the point, which was being made in my previous post. My post was specifically in response to you disagreeing on the impossibility of PAF getting its birds airborne in 15 min, as stated in my post, which you had quoted.

Nowhere did I say it was 'impossible'. If you have a pilot already geared up and waiting in cockpit, you already have removed much of the prep work prior to engine start. My point was that unless you removed or completed those prep work, it is not possible to go from pilot call to take off in 15 min.

Now can you please tell me the response time it takes to intercept a non-responding airliner over mainland USA??? Iv heard that NORAD boasts of it as being within a couple of minutes....but you can correct me on that as I cannot assure much credibility of the source having heard this in some documentary a while back. Requirements are dictated by situation and rolls.

Whatever 'documentary' that you watched, I can tell you that it is crap. An airliner that does not respond to queries DOES NOT mean the aircraft is hostile. Am willing to guess that you watch that crap of a 'documentary' called 'Loose Change'. What the producers did not tell you -- no surprise -- is that the US is not a dictatorship and therefore it is the civilian Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), not NORAD, that has jurisdiction over interior US airspace. If an aircraft does not respond to queries, the FAA is still in charge. NORAD has no legal authority over US interior airspace in peace time. If something goes terribly wrong that require military assistance, the FAA must file a formal request for assistance that must be routed to the Pentagon and wait for formal response. The Pentagon will then ordered just enough amount of assistance to the FAA, no more.

Further...The US military does not have arrest authority, in effect, the local police chief has more power than General David Petraeus. The US military is forbidden by law to make arrest unless there is an immediate danger to human lives and no civilian authority figure is available to respond to that threat.

Here is the order on how the military is supposed to respond in the event of an air piracy...

www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

4. Policy.

a. Aircraft Piracy (Hijacking) of Civil and Military Aircraft. Pursuant to references a and b, the Administrator, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), has exclusive responsibility to direct law enforcement activity related to actual or attempted aircraft piracy (hijacking) in the “special aircraft jurisdiction” of the United States. When requested by the Administrator, Department of Defense will provide assistance to these law enforcement efforts.

Look at the date of the order: 1 June 2001 .

This has been rehashed here over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...