PAF and Next Generation Fighter Program Confirmed

[manojb]

Engine still from russia?

 

[SBD-3]

This CAC project is mainly for export purpose,it will be something like the FC-1 that the PLA will most likely not to induce it.The J-XX that will form the high-low combination with the J-20 will roll out in the SAC at the end of this year or early in 2012.This CAC project is surposed to fill the demand of the 5the generation fighter from the friendly countries like Pakistan and Egyption.And the major issue here is that it's a double engined medium class 5th generation fighters to be powed by the next generation WS-XX advanced medium weight turbofan engine.However,this WS-XX is still in developing.That is a big question when will it get matured.

The pic you're referring to is WS-13 not WS-XX....here is the engine schemes for J-20, should give you fair idea about who should power J-20

furthermore, here is news from Pervaiz Shamim shaib who is an Ex-PAF and genuine insider

Some times I wonder what to believe or not. But last May when Gilano met Wen Jiabao, following issues were discussed in details. While China agreed to provide economic help, 50 JF-17 paid for by China. It is clear that these jets will be equipped with sophisticated system but what is not clear if they will be The Block-2. Since these 50 will not arrive until July-September time framel t frame next year, we will have to wait to find out.

There was no discussion about J-10B in the meeting but surprisingly they discussed J-20s prospects, form and payment period.de. these aircrafts even if acquired by Pakistan will not be available until 2020 but discussion seem to have begun.

I am at a loss as to how Pakistan can afford the J-20s but the truth is that they discussed it. But Chinese willingness to make cash infusion, loans, and grants for the reconstruction projects in Pakistan shows it is serious and can go to any extent to help itself by helping
Pakistan.

Wonder if China is helping with Pakistani enrgy projects. Once completed, they will surely help put pakistanis and Pakistan back on to road to recovery.

 

[nescafe]

Yesterday, huzhigeng struck again, bringing more insider news from 611 Institute (Chengdu Aircraft Corporation). Anyways here they are.

Last month, when a person asked whether JF-17 will be modified into a low observable, aka stealth design:

"Chengdu has an export pre-4th gen (5th gen in US/Russian standard)designated as J-2X.Pakistan and third world countries have demands for it. Of course, 611 can expect to get some order from Chinese air force also. It is about the size of F-35, and the design has already been presented to Pakistan."

Link: ´ó¼Ò˵˵£¬Éò·ÉËÄ´úÓüÓÀ³ÌؽøÆøµÀ£¬ÊÇÎÞÄεÄÍ×Ð*»¹ÊÇÐÔ¸ñµÄ±*¾ß£¿£¿£¿ - µÚ8Ò³ - ¿Õ¾ü°æ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛ̳

Yesterday, he reinstated this point:

"4th Gen (referring to J-20)'s little brother is also being designed."

Furthermore, he elaborated on recent exchanges between the two countries:

"PAF recently sent a group of represenatives to CAC. They looked at a few designs for their 4th gen, and in general they were pretty satisfied."

Link: ËÄÃÃÓÖÔÚ·ÉÁË - ¿Õ¾ü°æ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛ̳

When asked about the neccessity of SAC's project, he briefly mentioned future directions in design:

"611 (CAC) will continue to utilize canards in their future designs. This is both a tradition and a legacy, much like Lockheed Martin and their conventional designs. North (referring to SAC) will feature mostly conventional layouts. Of course, from the looks of JF-17, CAC's conventional designs aren't bad either. Now it remains to be seen whether J-2X (Pakistan's project) will have conventional or canard design."

Link: ÃÀµÛÊDz»ÊÇÕæÐĵIJ»Ï²»¶Ñ¼Ê½²¼¾Ö°¡?! - ¿Õ¾ü°æ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛ̳

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Notice the "pre-4th gen" in his statement. Now the reason he said "pre-4th" gen is because to qualify for 4th gen, China use the 4S standard. Supercruise, Stealth, Supermanoevurability and Sensor Fusion are the 4S criteria. Because of that criteria, F-35 is not considered a true 4th (5th) gen in China as it cannot supercruise, and is not thought to be as very manoevurable either (compared to other 4th gen). So this version Pakistan is getting presented will most likely not meet all 4S.

If I had to take a guess, I think it would not be able to supercruise like F-35.

this is very precisely why i log in to defence.pk everyday.

 

[cloneman]

The pic you're referring to is WS-13 not WS-XX....here is the engine schemes for J-20, should give you fair idea about who should power J-20

1.The WS-13 is basically a copy of the the RD-93 with a trust around 8500kgf with some technics from the F-404 since in 1980s China trended to reverse enginering the F-404.This picture above is the model of the next generation WS-XX showed in the Zhuhai airshow with a trust at 9500kgf and t/w ratio near 10,it's an EJ-200 level medium class engine.The WS-13 picture was already revealed before the Zhuhai airshow on the AVIC website.There was no need that they showed it again with a knocked off model.The WS-13 basically looked the same like the RD-93.
Klimov RD-33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The real WS-13 picture

2.Here we are not talking about the J-20 and the WS-15 which are the projects on-going,we are talking about a new CAC J-XX project which is a medium class fighter and only for export purpose.Please read the whole thread carefully.

 

[S10]

If this news is true then surely a matter of joy . but problem is whether this will be the only 5th generation fighter for Paf or will it accompanied by J-20 as well just like the combination of f-22 and f- 35 .

I doubt Pakistan will operate J-20, from a practical perspective. The plane is very costly, and even China does not plan to procure more than 300. In addition, it is designed with a very limited focus in mind, and that is air superiority.

Engine still from russia?

No, it will either be powered by a single WS-15 or twin WS-13. However, we don't know the design details yet. All we know so far is that the project had officially started.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Just make it affordable and valuable for Pakistan.

 

[*Awan*]

how many 5th generation programs are going on in China.and which fighter fall in which league.
like jxx=f-35
where j-20 and other if any falls?

 

[S10]

how many 5th generation programs are going on in China.and which fighter fall in which league.
like jxx=f-35
where j-20 and other if any falls?

Currently there are two ongoing, the J-20 and SAC's J-1X due to be unveiled next year. If you count this one huzhigeng just revealed, then there are three of them.

J-20 = Pure air Superiority
J-1X = Multi-role, and carrier-based
J-2X = Affordable solution similar to F-35 (eventhough F-35 is not really affordable)

 

[Silk]

Can anyone confirm tcv in the latest 035 J10-b?

 

[DV RULES]

If it is true then PAF went for best for its requirements where Pakistan need them to stabilize power balance.

 

[IceCold]

As stupid as we are.........the news sounds too good to be true.

 

[razgriz19]

well in future PAF will replace f-16 MLU with 5th G fighters so they're gonna start looking/developing for them now.
f-16s blk-15 MLU gonna last another 15 years or so because the engines wont be remain air worthy...
so this should not come as a surprise as it will take atleast 15 years for this aircraft to become reality!

 

[S10]

well in future PAF will replace f-16 MLU with 5th G fighters so they're gonna start looking/developing for them now.
f-16s blk-15 MLU gonna last another 15 years or so because the engines wont be remain air worthy...
so this should not come as a surprise as it will take atleast 15 years for this aircraft to become reality!

I don't think this project will take 15 years. J-20 and J-1X have already paved the way for the technologies that needed to be developed. All CAC has to do is graft them on to the J-2X. Think JF-17, which China was able to move from finalizing design to production in less than 5 years. With luck, it may see first flight around 2016.

 

[Dazzler]

On the contrary, J-20 will speed up the J-2x just like the J-10 paved the way for JFT as both share many sub systems. The initial technology development is the most difficult part and J-10 (4g) and now J-20 (5g) have done the hard bit, now we exporters can add our flavor to it. The best part is ,all these are manufactured by the same manufacturer.

 

[aliaselin]

1.The WS-13 is basically a copy of the the RD-93 with a trust around 8500kgf with some technics from the F-404 since in 1980s China trended to reverse enginering the F-404.This picture above is the model of the next generation WS-XX showed in the Zhuhai airshow with a trust at 9500kgf and t/w ratio near 10,it's an EJ-200 level medium class engine.The WS-13 picture was already revealed before the Zhuhai airshow on the AVIC website.There was no need that they showed it again with a knocked off model.The WS-13 basically looked the same like the RD-93.
Klimov RD-33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The real WS-13 picture

2.Here we are not talking about the J-20 and the WS-15 which are the projects on-going,we are talking about a new CAC J-XX project which is a medium class fighter and only for export purpose.Please read the whole thread carefully.

WS-13 is not a copy of RD-93. Its core engine is completely different from RD93's