PAC Spells Out Project Azm, FGFA Program, etc.

[Maxpane]

Engine too indigenious?

 

[Riz]

Engine too indigenious?

From the above link it seems yes... But how?

 

[Maxpane]

From the above link it seems yes... But how?

I dnt think they are working on azm for year i think they are on almost a decade

 

[Ali_Baba]

I think Azm will become our Tejas. It is a strategic mistake by PAF. They should have designed a replacement for Mushtaq first.. and then a turboject trainer, designed a LIFT jet rather than buying it off the shelf first before attempting Project Azm.......

Turkey has the right approach and direction and look to be successful. India did it backwards and paid the price for it quite badly. Hasn't PAF learnt anything from these two examples ???

 

[POPEYE-Sailor]

I think Azm will become our Tejas. It is a strategic mistake by PAF. They should have designed a replacement for Mushtaq first.. and then a turboject trainer, designed a LIFT jet rather than buying it off the shelf first before attempting Project Azm.......

Turkey has the right approach and direction and look to be successful. India did it backwards and paid the price for it quite badly. Hasn't PAF learnt anything from these two examples ???

awww you really care about Pakistan, u know what try to concentrate about ur more then 10 year on going projects where the result is still zero..!!

 

[Ali_Baba]

awww you really care about Pakistan, u know what try to concentrate about ur more then 10 year on going projects where the result is still zero..!!

Actually, yes i do care about Pakistan. Both my parents were born and bread in Pakistan, before they relocated to the UK. A large portion of my family is still in Pakistan. I care!!!

I still maintain what PAF is trying to do, is a strategic mistake, born out of ignorance and false bravado. They should really learn to walk before running.

Manufacturing the Mushtaq, parts of the K8 and now more of the JF17 is very different from designing a greenfield turn-key clean sheet design of the systems that need to go into the aircraft and its associate structures. What experience does Pakistan have in designing a FBW? Radar ? Airframe? PAF/Pakistan has no experience in any of the fields required to design, certify and field an aircraft of "any type".. let alone a 5th generation stealth aircraft ..........

 

[GriffinsRule]

Mushshak does not need a replacement. It is a great design for its intended purposes and we manufacture and export it successfully even now, so why replace it?

As for AZM, there is still very scant information about the program, besides the acknowledgement that it will not be an existing Chinese design. That leaves a lot of room for collaboration with the Turkish and the Chinese on a new design as well. It doesn't say anywhere that we will not work with partner nations or seek their expertise so no point trying to read too much into the chief's statement.

 

[gangsta_rap]

It's a tough gamble. The aviation city is a rather long-term investment but the fruits will certainly be worth it.

 

[Ali_Baba]

It's a tough gamble. The aviation city is a rather long-term investment but the fruits will certainly be worth it.

Totally agree, it is a massive step in the right direction. Increasing Pakistans share of the JF17 airframe from 58% to 100% has to be a strategic objective so that Pakistan has a turn key ability.

 

[mingle]

Main thing is engine I think PAC has to do partnership with either BAE or Russian or china for engine development. Yes it is possible with partnership with any company.

 

[CriticalThought]

Actually, yes i do care about Pakistan. Both my parents were born and bread in Pakistan, before they relocated to the UK. A large portion of my family is still in Pakistan. I care!!!

I still maintain what PAF is trying to do, is a strategic mistake, born out of ignorance and false bravado. They should really learn to walk before running.

Manufacturing the Mushtaq, parts of the K8 and now more of the JF17 is very different from designing a greenfield turn-key clean sheet design of the systems that need to go into the aircraft and its associate structures. What experience does Pakistan have in designing a FBW? Radar ? Airframe? PAF/Pakistan has no experience in any of the fields required to design, certify and field an aircraft of "any type".. let alone a 5th generation stealth aircraft ..........

It all depends on how you parse his words. On the one hand he talks about Vision 2047 and education and establishing our technological base. On the other hand he says they have been working in fifth gen fighter for a year and it will be a few years before it flies.

Separately, a recent news reported the start of UAE-Russia collaboration on fifth gen using modified RD-33. So, it is entirely possible that the initial versions of Azm will feature a Russian or even Chinese engine.

 

[BRAVO_]

Main thing is engine I think PAC has to do partnership with either BAE or Russian or china for engine development. Yes it is possible with partnership with any company.

but some of our thread members are thinking over ambitiously ... designing a capable engine is hell of a task, pakistan should first established its knowledge base, this is the key for the success of any project, we require PHds and qualified people who already have some sort of practical knowledge in the field of designing and its implementation in the field of aviation, along with uninterrupted logistical and financial support form the concerned institutions, under current bureaucratic system these things will take a lot more time then one can expect, so the best way to reach the target is to collaborate with China or Turkey for a 5th gen fighter and then mastered it for our future ambitions, remember our airforce cannot wait for a life time for the completion of Project Azam because enemies are obtaining potent aircraft now and this technological and numerical gap should not let out of reach

 

[mingle]

but some of our thread members are thinking over ambitiously ... designing a capable engine is hell of a task, pakistan should first established its knowledge base, this is the key for the success of any project, we require PHds and qualified people who already have some sort of practical knowledge in the field of designing and its implementation in the field of aviation, along with uninterrupted logistical and financial support form the concerned institutions, under current bureaucratic system these things will take a lot more time then one can expect, so the best way to reach the target is to collaborate with China or Turkey for a 5th gen fighter and then mastered it for our future ambitions, remember our airforce cannot wait for a life time for the completion of Project Azam because enemies are obtaining potent aircraft now and this technological and numerical gap should not let out of reach

I think Air cheif toned over simplistic about local home built will follow thunder model designed and build local but collaboration with many outsiders including China Russia and European as well .

 

[messiach]

Uphill task.

Asian Military Review just published their interview with ACM Mujahid Anwar Khan. Basically confirms everything @messiach has been saying about Project Azm, i.e., the goal is for a completely indigenous design. Also, seems the PAF's new LIFT requirement is mostly split between the L-15 and M-346.

@Gryphon @JamD @Oscar @Knuckles @HRK @khanasifm

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Source:
https://asianmilitaryreview.com/2018/12/show-daily-news-from-ideas-2018-day-1/

 

[denel]

Totally agree, it is a massive step in the right direction. Increasing Pakistans share of the JF17 airframe from 58% to 100% has to be a strategic objective so that Pakistan has a turn key ability.

First and foremost where I still see challenges are a lack of complete pipeline of graduates and uplifted sciences to support such ventures; next is building of local infrastructures - materials, electronics r&D, research avenues, just to name a few and away from anything to do with armed forces personel; you need this seperation otherwise they fall into the same trap - here it will be the excuse they are the patron so they must oversee - wrong move.
I agree with your sentiments that they needed to first consolidate on local trainers and upgrading of K8; and even JF-17 is a long road. Instead jumping to 5th gen A/c is a blunder in my opinion without having the foundations as we discussed and you highlighted earlier.