PAC/JF-17 - DxB Air Show 2019

[Trailer23]

So lately there was a lot of talk about Leonardo & our cooperation with Italy going 'bout - so I thought i'd cover their best product, since the AW139 wasn't present.

Leonardo/Alenia Aermacchi M-346

US NAVY's Sikorsky MH-53E Sea Dragon

​

 

[Trailer23]

Doesn't matter friend or foe; even must be covered with maximum input for information and interest of readers.

...elsewhere, 04 Russian/RUSSIAN guys studying the P&W F-100 like their life depended on it. I was trying to get a clear shot without 'em in it, but when I heard the words 'Thurst' & 'Combustion Chamber' I knew it was not meant to be. Yeah, study all you want 'cause what you have on the Su-57 sucks.

...& our good friend Alan Warnes was not to be found at his Pavilion - SHEPARD MEDIA. Apparently he had a run-in with BAESystems.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1197470693044174849

 

[StormBreaker]

View attachment 591018 View attachment 591019 View attachment 591020 View attachment 591021 View attachment 591022 View attachment 591023 View attachment 591024 View attachment 591025 View attachment 591026 View attachment 591027

...elsewhere, 04 Russian/RUSSIAN guys studying the P&W F-100 like their life depended on it. I was trying to get a clear shot without 'em in it, but when I heard the words 'Thurst' & 'Combustion Chamber' I knew it was not meant to be. Yeah, study all you want 'cause what you have on the Su-57 sucks.

View attachment 591028 View attachment 591029 View attachment 591030 View attachment 591032 View attachment 591033 View attachment 591034

...& our good friend Alan Warnes was not to be found at his Pavilion - SHEPARD MEDIA. Apparently he had a run-in with BAESystems.

View attachment 591031

https://twitter.com/x/status/1197470693044174849

Those guys seem more of ukrainian, Ukrainians comparitively have darker complexion as compared to russians, but i could very well be wrong. Just imagining this makes me laugh, P&W guy atendee, standing beside them, those guys talking “pakh shush kishh” in russian, studying all they want while the P&W guy couldn’t do anything

 

[Trailer23]

UAEAF's F-16 Block 60 (The Desert Falcon)​

 

[Trailer23]

So the story goes that after taking my own pics with the USAF F-16, I decided to head back inside the Exhibition Hall to the PAC Pavilion - as I was asked to stop by later for a bag of goodies & have whatever Questions that needed to be answered.

As I approached the Pavilion, I noticed something which led me to take my cellphone out & instantly start taking pics of the adjacent Pavilion - AVIC.

This is the pic I took. The L15 Trainer.

I then turned 180° & took a couple of pics of the Cables at PAC which I had already taken in the past.

(Focus on the person seated on the Left.)

Moving away (diagonally) across PAC I started taking a number of shots...and this is what I got. A Western Man & Woman at PAC.

Notice something on the table...take a closer look.

BOOM - How you like me now?!!​

Yeah, yeah...I know its not a Block 70/72, but its something.

And who are these fine people taking the time out to visit lil' ol' Pakistan Aeronautical Complex?

Badge: Lockheed Martin
Lanyard: DERCO (A Lockheed Martin Company)

Derco Aerospace, Inc.
8065 W Fairlane Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53223-3249
414-355-7770

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/lockheed-martin/en-us/products/derco-aerospace.html

Name: Kaan Tuncel
Title: Manager - Engineering Services

I spoke to a Lockheed Martin rep, a former USAF Viper Driver, who was also Lockheed Martin's F-16 Test Pilot and is now part of Training Division. He said that he will try his best to go for IDEAS 2020 & that LM are trying to pitch the PAF the Simulator.

He showed me some [Confidential] images of the F-21 Simulator which they're taking to India in 2-3 Months. I was also told a bit about the difference between the F-16 Block 70/72 & the F-21.

So yeah, i've heard quite a bit from the horses mouth himself. Some stuff is good & some not so much. And since I couldn't understand half the things he spoke off, i'll try my best to explain it a bit later.

By the way, I finally have a hard copy of the F-16 Block 70/72 Specs sheet which i'll post a bit later at nite.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Windjammer @Hodor @mingle @Haris Ali2140
​

@Dubious @Arsalan @The Eagle @araz @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @dbc @Aamir Hussain
@airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Knuckles @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @Mrc @NA71 @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
@assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad

 

[The Eagle]

So the story goes that after taking my own pics with the USAF F-16, I decided to head back inside the Exhibition Hall to the PAC Pavilion - as I was asked to stop by later for a bag of goodies & have whatever Questions that needed to be answered.

As I approached the Pavilion, I noticed something which led me to take my cellphone out & instantly start taking pics of the adjacent Pavilion - AVIC.

This is the pic I took. The L15 Trainer.

View attachment 591065

I then turned 180° & took a couple of pics of the Cables at PAC which I had already taken in the past.

(Focus on the person seated on the Left.)

View attachment 591069

Moving away (diagonally) across PAC I started taking a number of shots...and this is what I got. A Western Man & Woman at PAC.

View attachment 591068

Notice something on the table...take a closer look.

View attachment 591070

BOOM - How you like me now?!!​

View attachment 591071

Yeah, yeah...I know its not a Block 70/72, but its something.

And who are these fine people taking the time out to visit lil' ol' Pakistan Aeronautical Complex?

View attachment 591072

Badge: Lockheed Martin
Lanyard: DERCO (A Lockheed Martin Company)

Derco Aerospace, Inc.
8065 W Fairlane Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53223-3249
414-355-7770

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/lockheed-martin/en-us/products/derco-aerospace.html

Name: Kaan Tuncel
Title: Manager - Engineering Services

View attachment 591073

View attachment 591075

I spoke to a Lockheed Martin rep, a former USAF Viper Driver, who was also Lockheed Martin's F-16 Test Pilot and is now part of Training Division. He said that he will try his best to go for IDEAS 2020 & that LM are trying to pitch the PAF the Simulator.

He showed me some [Confidential] images of the F-21 Simulator which they're taking to India in 2-3 Months. I was also told a bit about the difference between the F-16 Block 70/72 & the F-21.

So yeah, i've heard quite a bit from the horses mouth himself. Some stuff is good & some not so much. And since I couldn't understand half the things he spoke off, i'll try my best to explain it a bit later.

By the way, I finally have a hard copy of the F-16 Block 70/72 Specs sheet which i'll post a bit later at nite.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Windjammer @Hodor @mingle @Haris Ali2140
​

@Dubious @Arsalan @The Eagle @araz @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @dbc @Aamir Hussain
@airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Knuckles @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @Mrc @NA71 @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
@assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad

As you will be sharing a detailed post in regard to your conversation with Ex-USAF, I find few initial surprises in the post as quoted.

• Why LM needs to pitch simulator to PAF since we have been flying the F-16s for decades but, until & unless there is something new in pipe line?
• I am sure in the end, those LM officials were taken to the Meeting Room by PAC official.
• Nonetheless, the top notch including PAC Chairman, are in Dubair Airshow 2019 unlike any other show, therefore, we can expect a lot this time or there will be less said.

@Oscar (its been a while to see your around) @Bilal Khan 777 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @HRK & others.

 

[aliyusuf]

@Trailer23
Could you kindly consolidate your overall findings on JF-17 Block-III Thunder and present them in one place again for reference and ease of look-up.
Also kindly present your findings on the Block-70/72 and F-21 in a similar fashion.

It will be a help for everyone.
You have already been a great source.
Thank you.

 

[StormBreaker]

As you will be sharing a detailed post in regard to your conversation with Ex-USAF, I find few initial surprises in the post as quoted.

• Why LM needs to pitch simulator to PAF since we have been flying the F-16s for decades but, until & unless there is something new in pipe line?
• I am sure in the end, those LM officials were taken to the Meeting Room by PAC official.
• Nonetheless, the top notch including PAC Chairman, are in Dubair Airshow 2019 unlike any other show, therefore, we can expect a lot this time or there will be less said.

@Oscar (its been a while to see your around) @Bilal Khan 777 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @HRK & others.

Exactly, the eye catching statement in the post was “pitching the F-21 simulator”, brother Khafee was right all along, just that, we don’t deserve him...

 

[aliyusuf]

Why LM needs to pitch simulator to PAF since we have been flying the F-16s for decades but, until & unless there is something new in pipe line?

Don't you think, that @Khafee Sahib was on to something, after all?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

As you will be sharing a detailed post in regard to your conversation with Ex-USAF, I find few initial surprises in the post as quoted.

• Why LM needs to pitch simulator to PAF since we have been flying the F-16s for decades but, until & unless there is something new in pipe line?
• I am sure in the end, those LM officials were taken to the Meeting Room by PAC official.
• Nonetheless, the top notch including PAC Chairman, are in Dubair Airshow 2019 unlike any other show, therefore, we can expect a lot this time or there will be less said.

@Oscar (its been a while to see your around) @Bilal Khan 777 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @HRK & others.

We should remember, the US didn't refuse to sell F-16s (or other hardware) to Pakistan, it's just that the armed forces don't want to pay for them with national funds. The drop in FMF and CSF is the reason why we had walked away from the 8 Block-52+ and aren't really picking up the AH-1Zs.

We want a 51%+ subsidy through either CSF or FMF; so that's where the sticking point generally is. Otherwise, national funds will go to more amenable suppliers, such as China, Turkey and Italy.

That said, a simulator could be of interest for the simple fact that it'd preserve flying hours on the F-16s. If the PAF is more or less done with adding F-16s, then preserving what it has right now is probably the goal. Beyond that, it's also possible that the PAF is interested in an F-16V upgrade for its current fleet. Finally, the least plausible scenario is the above plus the acquisition of new-build F-16s.

 

[StormBreaker]

We should remember, the US didn't refuse to sell F-16s (or other hardware) to Pakistan, it's just that the armed forces don't want to pay for them with national funds. The drop in FMF and CSF is the reason why we had walked away from the 8 Block-52+ and aren't really picking up the AH-1Zs.

We want a 51%+ subsidy through either CSF or FMF; so that's where the sticking point generally is. Otherwise, national funds will go to more amenable suppliers, such as China, Turkey and Italy.

That said, a simulator could be of interest for the simple fact that it'd preserve flying hours on the F-16s. If the PAF is more or less done with adding F-16s, then preserving what it has right now is probably the goal. Beyond that, it's also possible that the PAF is interested in an F-16V upgrade for its current fleet. Finally, the least plausible scenario is the above plus the acquisition of new-build F-16s.

Agree with all said, but you missed a major point. If F-21, has a cockpit upgrade, which i think is definitely the case, the LM person specifically mentioned simulator to be for F-21. Why should we get such different simulators with most probably a single wide MFD, for our Block 52/MLUs?

 

[The Eagle]

Don't you think, that @Khafee Sahib was on to something, after all?

I can't comment about his source, at the moment. He had the information per his own and then he has the credibility to him, so I can't deny plainly nor can acknowledge. However, I do believe to the extent of Offer in that regard and this is my personal opinion which can be wrong. Hope you understand.

 

[Maxpane]

So the story goes that after taking my own pics with the USAF F-16, I decided to head back inside the Exhibition Hall to the PAC Pavilion - as I was asked to stop by later for a bag of goodies & have whatever Questions that needed to be answered.

As I approached the Pavilion, I noticed something which led me to take my cellphone out & instantly start taking pics of the adjacent Pavilion - AVIC.

This is the pic I took. The L15 Trainer.

View attachment 591065

I then turned 180° & took a couple of pics of the Cables at PAC which I had already taken in the past.

(Focus on the person seated on the Left.)

View attachment 591069

Moving away (diagonally) across PAC I started taking a number of shots...and this is what I got. A Western Man & Woman at PAC.

View attachment 591068

Notice something on the table...take a closer look.

View attachment 591070

BOOM - How you like me now?!!​

View attachment 591071

Yeah, yeah...I know its not a Block 70/72, but its something.

And who are these fine people taking the time out to visit lil' ol' Pakistan Aeronautical Complex?

View attachment 591072

Badge: Lockheed Martin
Lanyard: DERCO (A Lockheed Martin Company)

Derco Aerospace, Inc.
8065 W Fairlane Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53223-3249
414-355-7770

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/lockheed-martin/en-us/products/derco-aerospace.html

Name: Kaan Tuncel
Title: Manager - Engineering Services

View attachment 591073

View attachment 591075

I spoke to a Lockheed Martin rep, a former USAF Viper Driver, who was also Lockheed Martin's F-16 Test Pilot and is now part of Training Division. He said that he will try his best to go for IDEAS 2020 & that LM are trying to pitch the PAF the Simulator.

He showed me some [Confidential] images of the F-21 Simulator which they're taking to India in 2-3 Months. I was also told a bit about the difference between the F-16 Block 70/72 & the F-21.

So yeah, i've heard quite a bit from the horses mouth himself. Some stuff is good & some not so much. And since I couldn't understand half the things he spoke off, i'll try my best to explain it a bit later.

By the way, I finally have a hard copy of the F-16 Block 70/72 Specs sheet which i'll post a bit later at nite.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Windjammer @Hodor @mingle @Haris Ali2140
​

@Dubious @Arsalan @The Eagle @araz @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @dbc @Aamir Hussain
@airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Knuckles @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @Mrc @NA71 @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
@assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad

First of all sir how is your twin ? i hope they all are fine now.
2ndly i salute you for your efforts and give us an insight about the info which most of us cant get with out you. Again thank you so much

 

[The Eagle]

Exactly, the eye catching statement in the post was “pitching the F-21 simulator”, brother Khafee was right all along, just that, we don’t deserve him...

He will be back once the fraction is over and that is a different topic irrelevant to the subject at hand.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Agree with all said, but you missed a major point. If F-21, has a cockpit upgrade, which i think is definitely the case, the LM person specifically mentioned simulator to be for F-21. Why should we get such different simulators with most probably a single wide MFD, for our Block 52/MLUs?

I'd read @Trailer23's post again, LM is pitching the F21 simulator to India.

I spoke to a Lockheed Martin rep, a former USAF Viper Driver, who was also Lockheed Martin's F-16 Test Pilot and is now part of Training Division. He said that he will try his best to go for IDEAS 2020 & that LM are trying to pitch the PAF the Simulator.

He showed me some [Confidential] images of the F-21 Simulator which they're taking to India in 2-3 Months. I was also told a bit about the difference between the F-16 Block 70/72 & the F-21.​