P-8A’s Acoustic Sensor System Twice as Effective as the P-3’s

[AMDR]

Navy: P-8A’s Acoustic Sensor System Twice as Effective as the P-3’s
By RICHARD R. BURGESS, Managing Editor

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. — The acoustic sensor system of the Navy’s P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft proving to be twice as effective as that of the older P-3C Orion.

Capt. Scott Dillon, the Navy’s program manager for maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft, speaking to reporters April 14 at the Navy League’s 2015 Sea-Air-Space Exposition, said, “Acoustics is the area where the aircraft has been shining,” while noting that that he has been “getting extremely favorable reviews of the aircraft’s real-world performance.”

The Boeing-built P-8 is likely to deliver even better acoustic detection and tracking capability with the introduction of Increment 2 upgrades, which include the Multistatic Active Coherent Capability (MAC).

MAC, an evolution of Improved Extended Echo Ranging used on the SSQ-110 sonobuoy, uses the SSQ-125 sonobuoy. The SSQ-125 generates loud sounds electronically rather than using small explosive charges to generate sound as in the SSQ-110. The long-range echoes from a target are intercepted by the sonobuoy and relayed to the aircraft’s sensor system. Dillon said the electronic sound sources generate fewer false returns than the explosive charges.

The MAC capability became operational on the P-3 last year. It has passed its operational evaluation, although the full report has not yet been signed out. The next P-8 squadron to deploy, scheduled for September, will incorporate this capability as the Navy has begun retrofits of MAC into the already delivered P-8s.

MAC is one of three major improvements being implemented in the Increment 2 upgrade. The others are the Automatic Information System and the High-Altitude ASW Weapon (HAAWC) system. HAAWC is a Mk54 torpedo with a Boeing-built wing kit, a Global Positioning System (GPS) and a data link with the aircraft. The weapon can glide from high altitudes — allowing the aircraft to maintain a wide search area and increased standoff ranges from threats — and deliver the torpedo to a water entry point. In conjunction with HAAWC capability, the sonobuoys will have a GPS capability to enable the aircraft to maintain a precise plot of the sonobuoy field at high altitude, 10,000 feet or higher.

Dillon said the acoustic tracking capability of the P-8 is so precise that the decision to delete the magnetic anomaly detector, used by the P-3 at low altitude, from the P-8 design has been validated.

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Now I know how that one P-8 at the Paris air show got so many foreign sub tracks

US Submarine Hunter Grabs Spotlight at Paris Air Show | Military.com

 

[GURU DUTT]

so does indian P8I also has all that hardware in it

 

[Jamwal's]

I don't think there is any Maritime Recon Aircraft which outclass P8 as of now.

Apart from subs the Harpoons fired from p8 would be a major threat to any warship irrespective of its weight.

indian Navy should induct atleast 100 Harpoons for 12 P8i

 

[AMDR]

so does indian P8I also has all that hardware in it

The multi-static sonobuoy system is a very new upgrade to the USN P-8A, so I don't think it has been exported to India yet (I could be wrong). Other than that,the P-8I should have all the regular baseline systems that the standard USN P-8A has.

 

[Odysseus]

The multi-static sonobuoy system is a very new upgrade to the USN P-8A, so I don't think it has been exported to India yet (I could be wrong). Other than that,the P-8I should have all the regular baseline systems that the standard USN P-8A has.

The P-8Is incorporate a little more than P-8As.

India's version - the P-8I Neptune - incorporates some unique design features as well as some indigenously built subsystems tailored for the country's maritime patrol requirements. These include an aft radar and tail-mounted MAD.

USN have just started to upgrade their P-8s with MAC. Not all P-8A have MAC as of yet, as the Increment 2 kit upgrade will go well into FY18.
Maybe IN will get this kit in its P-8s next upgrade.

The other new capability being added as part of Increment 2 is referred to as multi-static, active coherent (MAC) technology. Deliveries of the Increment 2 upgrade kits are projected to run from 2QFY15 to 1QFY18.

http://aviationweek.com/site-files/...s/uploads/2015/07/asd_07_09_2015_dossier1.pdf

 

[Echo_419]

Navy: P-8A’s Acoustic Sensor System Twice as Effective as the P-3’s
By RICHARD R. BURGESS, Managing Editor

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. — The acoustic sensor system of the Navy’s P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft proving to be twice as effective as that of the older P-3C Orion.

Capt. Scott Dillon, the Navy’s program manager for maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft, speaking to reporters April 14 at the Navy League’s 2015 Sea-Air-Space Exposition, said, “Acoustics is the area where the aircraft has been shining,” while noting that that he has been “getting extremely favorable reviews of the aircraft’s real-world performance.”

The Boeing-built P-8 is likely to deliver even better acoustic detection and tracking capability with the introduction of Increment 2 upgrades, which include the Multistatic Active Coherent Capability (MAC).

MAC, an evolution of Improved Extended Echo Ranging used on the SSQ-110 sonobuoy, uses the SSQ-125 sonobuoy. The SSQ-125 generates loud sounds electronically rather than using small explosive charges to generate sound as in the SSQ-110. The long-range echoes from a target are intercepted by the sonobuoy and relayed to the aircraft’s sensor system. Dillon said the electronic sound sources generate fewer false returns than the explosive charges.

The MAC capability became operational on the P-3 last year. It has passed its operational evaluation, although the full report has not yet been signed out. The next P-8 squadron to deploy, scheduled for September, will incorporate this capability as the Navy has begun retrofits of MAC into the already delivered P-8s.

MAC is one of three major improvements being implemented in the Increment 2 upgrade. The others are the Automatic Information System and the High-Altitude ASW Weapon (HAAWC) system. HAAWC is a Mk54 torpedo with a Boeing-built wing kit, a Global Positioning System (GPS) and a data link with the aircraft. The weapon can glide from high altitudes — allowing the aircraft to maintain a wide search area and increased standoff ranges from threats — and deliver the torpedo to a water entry point. In conjunction with HAAWC capability, the sonobuoys will have a GPS capability to enable the aircraft to maintain a precise plot of the sonobuoy field at high altitude, 10,000 feet or higher.

Dillon said the acoustic tracking capability of the P-8 is so precise that the decision to delete the magnetic anomaly detector, used by the P-3 at low altitude, from the P-8 design has been validated.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now I know how that one P-8 at the Paris air show got so many foreign sub tracks
View attachment 239209
US Submarine Hunter Grabs Spotlight at Paris Air Show | Military.com

A impressive beast

 

[Penguin]

India's version - the P-8I Neptune - incorporates some unique design features as well as some indigenously built subsystems tailored for the country's maritime patrol requirements. These include an aft radar and tail-mounted MAD.

(Why) Does the P-8I retain a tail mounted MAD?

 

[Odysseus]

(Why) Does the P-8I retain a tail mounted MAD?

Maybe cause IN didn't want to go with this

(BAE Systems magnetic anomaly detecting UAV)

MAD works best at low altitude but operating these UAVs will be more expensive than the saved fuel. You can say it's one of Indian jugaad.

 

[hkdas]

Maybe cause IN didn't want to go with this
View attachment 239312
(BAE Systems magnetic anomaly detecting UAV)

MAD works best at low altitude but operating these UAVs will be more expensive than the saved fuel. You can say it's one of Indian jugaad.

i have one dough

if that UAV is launched from P-8, they how did they recover that UAV??

 

[AMDR]

The SubSAM threat has been partially nullified with this increment

HAAWC (MK.54 with a wing kit) will allow us and our allies to engage subs far out of the range of SubSAMs

 

[Penguin]

Maybe cause IN didn't want to go with this
View attachment 239312
(BAE Systems magnetic anomaly detecting UAV)

MAD works best at low altitude but operating these UAVs will be more expensive than the saved fuel. You can say it's one of Indian jugaad.

Relating this:
"Dillon said the acoustic tracking capability of the P-8 is so precise that the decision to delete the magnetic anomaly detector, used by the P-3 at low altitude, from the P-8 design has been validated."

With this:
"India's version - the P-8I Neptune - incorporates some unique design features as well as some indigenously built subsystems tailored for the country's maritime patrol requirements. These include an aft radar and tail-mounted MAD."

 

[Odysseus]

Relating this:
"Dillon said the acoustic tracking capability of the P-8 is so precise that the decision to delete the magnetic anomaly detector, used by the P-3 at low altitude, from the P-8 design has been validated."

With this:
"India's version - the P-8I Neptune - incorporates some unique design features as well as some indigenously built subsystems tailored for the country's maritime patrol requirements. These include an aft radar and tail-mounted MAD."

There is that and then there is this,

In particular, after some waffling back and forth, the Navy decided to leave off a sensor called the Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD), which can detect the metal hulls of submarines — if the plane flies low enough. MAD was crucial to the P-3’s traditional low-altitude tactics. Significantly, the P-8 variant that Boeing is building for the Indian Navy will still have it; only the US Navy P-8 will not. Both Rondeau and Boeing argue that the P-8 can more than compensate with more sophisticated sensors and by using its superior computing power to interpret their data.

“There’s a misconception,” said Rondeau. “Some people think that that means P-8 can’t do low-altitude anti-submarine warfare [ASW]. We can, and it’s very effective down low, [but] we will eventually get to the point where we stay at higher altitudes.”

Navy’s P-8 Sub Hunter Bets On High Altitude, High Tech; Barf Bags Optional « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

Do you think that the IN might be skeptical about the sensors which went onboard the P8I's compared to P8A's? So, they went with an additional sensor which the USN thought was redundant.

And if the P-8A sensors are so precise then why is the USN going for such a complicated solution such as launching the MAD drones from the planes sonobuoy rotary launchers?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Great News

This means that Our P8 I is also very effective and capable

@AMDR

GOD bless America

 

[Fenrir]

so does indian P8I also has all that hardware in it

Not likely considering the system is just coming online in the US, and it should be noted that the US P-8As will always have different tech than those of India - the P-8I. The US isn't sharing everything, such as its communications and EW systems, like this:

An unknown system, new to US P-8As.

The Navy's P-8 Poseidon Spotted Packing Mysterious New Pod

It's not clear if India will be privy to the P-8As radar systems either - such as this Littoral Surveillance Radar System:

Exclusive: P-8 Poseidon Flies With Shadowy Radar System Attached

Indian P-8Is have tech the US birds don't too, such as the Telephonics APS-143 OceanEye, Bharat Electronics Limited Data Link II communications and of course, its MAD.

And considering the Multistatic Active Coherent Capability is the P-8A's version of the P-8I's MAD system (not in of itself a MAD system, but it is the replacement the USN chose), India might not need it, depending on how sensitive its own sensors are. For now, no, this will remain US tech, but that doesn't mean the US wont sell it, or its comm/EW gear or its radars either, just that it's new enough that the US isn't likely to part with it immediately.

Let's wait and see on the MAC.

Great News

This means that Our P8 I is also very effective and capable

See above. This tech may or may not end up with India.

*Begin tangent*

Incidentally, MAD buoys are a thing... no word on whether or not the USN uses them:

Magnetic anomaly detection buoy for detecting submarines

*End tangent*

 

[Odysseus]

Not likely considering the system is just coming online in the US, and it should be noted that the US P-8As will always have different tech than those of India - the P-8I. The US isn't sharing everything, such as its communications and EW systems, like this:

An unknown system, new to US P-8As.

The Navy's P-8 Poseidon Spotted Packing Mysterious New Pod

It's not clear if India will be privy to the P-8As radar systems either - such as this Littoral Surveillance Radar System:

Exclusive: P-8 Poseidon Flies With Shadowy Radar System Attached

Indian P-8Is have tech the US birds don't too, such as the Telephonics APS-143 OceanEye, Bharat Electronics Limited Data Link II communications and of course, its MAD.

And considering the Multistatic Active Coherent Capability is the P-8A's version of the P-8I's MAD system (no in of itself a MAD system, but it is the replacement the USN chose), India might not need it, depending on how sensitive its own sensors are. For now, no, this will remain US tech, but that doesn't mean the US wont sell it, or its comm/EW gear or its radars either.

Let's wait and see on the MAC.



See above. This tech may or may not end up with India.

*Begin tangent*

Incidentally, MAD buoys are a thing... no word on whether or not the USN uses them:

Magnetic anomaly detection buoy for detecting submarines

*End tangent*

Foliage Penetrating Radars will not go onboard P-8I's. The objectives and operating procedures of IN and USN are very different. IN don't operate over land, that's IAFs job, and IAF is already evaluating these radars for its platforms.

OIS-AT Announces Development of Foliage Penetrating Radar -- NEW DELHI, February 5, 2014 /PRNewswire/ --